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FuRom

I'm freshly cracking into the world of application programing and I figure the first thing I'm starting off with is a game. My main skill set pertains to web based stuff. I'm a pro at php and I'm familiar with the concept of threading, thanks to ruby and python. I've done quite a few spiffy things with Flash AS2/php/ruby/python/vb6/vb.NET. Anyways, that should give everyone an idea of what my programming mindset is.

I decided I'd just start flinging codes with C#.NET and I already knew Irrlicht had a .NET wrapper. I just recently found out that they flat out don't support their .NET wrapper anymore. I can just continue to use Irrlicht v1.3.1 but before I get my project sooooooo far ahead that I can't turn back, I want to look at my options and evaluate what could possibly be wrong with Irrlicht v1.3.1.

The Q's
1.) What are the downsides to Irrlicht v1.3.1?
Like.... is there anything that I would WANT to do with Irrlicht that is just impossible? Maybe it just has super problematic flaws?
2.) What would be some simpler and easier alternatives to Irrlicht v.1.3.1?
Without being forced to use an EXE installer to get what I want.... please.... mogre was evil

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Eriond

While I can't help you with your questions much (best I was able to find was the changelog between 1.3.1 and 1.4.1), there are a few things you should consider before you take the plunge into working with Irrlicht.

Using a pre-fabricated engine isn't the be-all end-all. Yes, it is faster, and easier to make a game. However, consider why you're making the game in the first place. Chances are (and this is pure probability, good for you if you beat it ), your game won't be successful; I know mine probably won't be. So, if your game doesn't get popular you should take away more from the experience than a working knowledge of Irrlicht.

If you simply use Irrlicht, you'll definitely learn things, and they'll be useful. However, if you made a game up from scratch (well obviously not scratch scratch), you'd probably learn a lot more, which you could then apply in other areas of programming.

This isn't to say don't use Irrlicht; just a friendly warning

Anyway, here's the changelog, if you want to take a look
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/changes.txt

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FuRom

Eriond, you're failing to see the question. Due to the fact that you've blatantly disregarded the entire questions posed in the initial post, IE: Posting with no real response to my questions, your post is simply spam. Intellectual garbage belongs where it spawns from, inside the minds of raging psychotic lunatics. Lets take some time to TEAR YOUR POST APART and analyze it.

If you really knew anything at all about the matter.... you'd know that 1.4.1 does not have a .NET wrapper. IE: I can't use it in C#.

Pfft... The fact that almost every game in existence uses some sort of rendering engine fabricated by some other 3rd party is enough to make your hidden deterrent of "Don't make a game!", unjustifiable! I am NOT, and I repeat NOT, asking "How do I make a game!". Nor am I like "I want to make a game! OMG! I have no idea how!". I'm simply asking for RELIABLE, RESOURCEFUL, INFORMATION. If you want to talk about that type of stuff.... hmm... Here's a retort for that.... Lets look at my experience.

I've made 4 web based games. 2 of which were in flash. 1 of which was an MMORPG. 3 out of these 4 games are SUCCESSFUL. They bring in lucrative amounts of cash. In which, with that cash, the costs of 12 dedicated servers are COVERED on a monthly basis. None of which are under $500 USD monthly. I have 6 years of programming knowledge in EVERY BRANCH OF WEB DEVELOPMENT. IE: Java, Javascript, HTML/XHTML, CSS, Flash AS, Ruby, Python, and more. To top that off, I have no less than 3 years experience in VB6 (6 years experience and it's much different from C#.NET), VB.NET, and C#.NET (Console Applications Only).

All in all, I don't need anyone telling me anything about business and marketing. The ONLY thing I asked about was programming related. Anything more is spam.

I dare do say, I don't need to "learn" anything per say. I know how to use a .NET wrapper. You're once again failing to understand and comprehend the initial post of mine. I'm trying to find out if what I'm preparing to use is OPTIMAL for the environment in which I'm starting my project up in.

Now.... once again..... 1.4.1 doesn't have nothing to do with this conversation buddy. 1.4.1 does not have a .NET wrapper. Therefore, 1.4.1 is useless. All of that being said.... I dare do say that your post has been proven to be no more than spam because not only is it non-contributive, but it also is nothing but a post to say someone else can't do this and/or that.

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Eriond

I seem to remember you asking "I can just continue to use Irrlicht v1.3.1 but before I get my project sooooooo far ahead that I can't turn back, I want to look at my options and evaluate what could possibly be wrong with Irrlicht v1.3.1.".

You asked if there could be anything wrong with Irrlicht 1.3.1. I thought you were asking if there was anything wrong specifically with version 1.3.1. and not with Irrlicht itself. In keeping with my assumption that you thought there might be something wrong with 1.3.1. I posted the changelog, to show you the differences between that and the updated version.

That is not spam. At worst, it is misunderstanding. At best it is an answer to your question. Given your response, it is a misunderstanding. I apologize for that, but goddamn, don't be so quick to judge me. I was trying to be helpful.

Calm down. I'm no longer questioning you, or your talent, though I do admit that your post originally did look like a generic "I want to create a game post.". You never said you had experience with C#, you simply said you wanted to try using it. All well and good.

I recognize that you have experience in programming (you specified you had experience in a bunch of language), but forgive me for saying, game design for a 3D game is different then website design and server side programming, or actionscript. (not to say that any of these are lesser aspects of design or anything like that, they're all quite powerful languages in their own right and valuable tools). It took me three years to go from console application programming to the point where I am now with a 3D engine. You may or may not be able to do it faster, I don't know (it wasn't a business for me, so you'll probably be able to do it faster, possibly a lot faster). My only point is that you still have things to learn if you're coming in directly from console.

I'm also certainly not giving you business or marketing advice, I'm not experienced in that area. I don't know where you got that idea.

I'm giving you personal advice. Friendly advice on what I found to be helpful, and still do find helpful. I've always found that digging at things from the base up always leads to a better understanding of the situation. That's all I'm saying. That's all I said in my post. I simply stated that using Irrlicht may not be the be-all end-all solution.

Most people come into this forum looking to develop as a hobby. If you want me to treat you like an experienced businessman and commercial software developer, you have to either explicitly state it, or be a lot more professional than you were in your post. (Yes, this is a slight dig at you, but after what you just posted, I feel I should at least get one ) I give all hobbyist developers the same advice I just gave you. Learn things from the ground up. Don't use pre-fabricated engines if you're looking to learn.

If you're not looking to learn, but to simply ask onRPG for a cost-benefit analysis of whether or not it is worth your time to use a particular engine than I doubt it you'll get an answer that'll satisfy you.

Also, I have never said people should not make a game. I've never said that. Neither explicitly nor implicitly. I've always told people to aim for games as their end product. It's always helped me to shoot for the moon. I always suggest this to people; it's kinda my thing. It's what I do, because I've found the approach to be incredibly effective. When you aim for something that's hard to reach, you find yourself alot more motivated then you would otherwise.

This depends on your definition of optimal. Are we talking about speed of the engine vs. time spent learning it? If that's your answer, I've heard it's good, I have a friend who made his engine using it, for an MMORPG. It's powerful and easy to learn. I certainly wouldn't belittle him for using it, nor am I belittling you.

That's the best answer I can give you.


I am well aware that 1.4.1. does not have a .NET wrapper, you stated this in your post above. This is again because my misunderstanding your situation, as I said above in the first paragraph.

By the way, is this yours? http://furom.wordpress.com/.

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FuRom

Your initial post seemed generic too. ^_^~ Anyways, it just seemed like one of those mellow posts that had the discouraging effect that you'd give to a person that knows nothing about programming and now I understand why. You make a good point where I didn't mention that I even knew C# (I can pick up almost any programming language with a sequenced syntax and use it). I'm aware of how complicated a 3D game is. I've completely ripped apart the sandy 3D engine for flash and also paper vision and pretty much remade them. I've even made a 3D engine in flash before AS3 came out! (It was a nightmare!)

Anyways, yeah, this is a hobby project. It's not funded but I did put a deadline on it. My goal isn't to learn because I know how it all works. I'm just trying to get opinions on irrlicht and possibly see if anyone would happen to know of other 3D engines that have .NET wrappers that might possibly be simpler and better. I'm trying to make sure I end up using something that is speedy (IE: Wont look laggy and choppy to the user). While at the same time, easy/fast to develop with.

The end product is going to be a fun free MMORPG with no adverts or cash shop (and it'll have a storyline! RAWR!). It's not like I'm your average guy in the aspect of pet projects. Even if I make something and quit, it doesn't die. If the source ain't already open, I open it and I've made quite a bit of royalties off projects that I've started and almost completed but I gave them away to other people to continue on (They just made my stuff go corporate).

Personally.... how I get things done is.... I just make a goal and I coast along.... until it's done. It works for me. Also, I'd like to make a note that I don't have to necessarily be making a "3D" game with a 3D engine. I might be making a 2D game. I've not completely decided if I want to deal with 3D meshes or rendering out cardboard cut outs of 2D PNG files yet. I think I might go with a maple story-like game. It's something that is widely enjoyed but it's cut down and left to be a child's game with no storyline. I hate marketing ploys like that. Bleh, I'mma end here before I babble on into my entire theory on the universe too.

Yeah, that's mine. It's just for posting random stuff I make. *cough* Stuff I made and decided not to use, but might be useful to someone else.

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