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Duo

Let me discuss the ups and downs of both paths, but before we begin, we need some base facts to work off of.

After doing about 500 hits of weak and strong, I have determined a few things.

Weak hit damage: 200% of your Offense range
Strong hit damage: 133% of your Weak hit range
Warrior base crit damage: 150% of physical damage.
Warrior base crit rate: 10% chance for crit with any attack.
Warrior physical accuracy: Variable. It depends on your level vs. the monster's level and also whatever our base % is.

Let's talk a little about accuracy, too. As a sword warlord, my masteries give me +5% accuracy increase, and also -10% accuracy decrease. That leaves me with a -5% accuracy decrease off of my base. I also have level 6 concentration, which is another +6% accuracy. If our base accuracy % is 100%, then that means I now have 101% accuracy. That is false, because I still miss on monsters significantly lower level than me. I don't think that luck should affect our accuracy - we aren't explorers. My estimation is that our base accuracy falls somewhere around 80%; I can't say for sure.

I do not think that luck affects crit rate at all, as I compared my crit rate chances to a warrior with lower luck than I have, yet he crit just as much, and sometimes it seemed like he crit more often. (Credit to CrownClown for assisting me in crit rate experiment). Relating back to luck and accuracy, his accuracy is only 1% lower than mine, but he hit just as often.

Now, let the true debate begin (sorry for the long prelude).

The concentration path is as follows:

Concentration [Lv 10 max] - Increase accuracy by 1% a level. Can't be doubled with rage.

Mind Concentration [Lv 10 max] - Increase evasion by 1% a level. I need clarification that this skill reaches level 10. It should since evasion isn't that big of a stat for warriors.

Scar [Lv 10 max] - Your normal attack has a chance to leave a big scar. This skill is a DoT skill. NOTE: This skill is only usable by 2H swords and spears.

The level 80 passive skill following the concentration path gives 5% crit rate at max.

The rage path is as follows:

Rage [Lv 10 max] - Raise your physical damage by 1% a level. Can't stack with concentration.

Rage Explosion [Lv 10 max] - Increase crit DAMAGE by 5% a level. When you get hit, you will sometimes activate this skill for 40 seconds (at level 10) and deal (at max) 50% extra crit damage.

Berserker Drive [Lv 10 max?] - When your HP goes under a certain level, this skill will instantly increase your offense stat. When you are in Berserker your Max HP goes down considerably. When you use this in Rage Explosion, it will be more effective.

Honestly, I have no idea how this skill works. Does leveling it up decrease max HP loss? Does it allow you to activate the skill without having your HP fall very low? Does leveling up the skill increase the offense increase you get? Is it all of these factors? I also have no idea when this skill maxes out, or is it a skill that can't be leveled up? Only OGP knows.


So here's the question - Which misc path is better for sword warlords and spear warlords? Bladers are out of the question since they probably get their own set of misc skills, and even if they don't, scar can only be used with 2H swords and spears - you only have one path to pick anyways.

My claim goes as such:

Sword warlords should follow the concentration path. Spear warlords should follow the rage path.

My reasoning:

Back when I was experimenting with my damage, I noticed an overlap. My weak hits ranged from 226 to 298, where as my hard hits ranged from 294* to 406. Notice the overlap? Even though hard hits are, as listed above, 33% stronger than weak hits, I still see many cases where my weak and hard hits are only 30 or less damage apart from one another. For sword warriors, a hard hit takes almost twice as long to use as a weak hit. But that's out of the question.

The point I'm trying to make is, even with a 33% damage difference from weak and strong, there is still damage overlap. Max rage only increases your damage by 10%. Looking at my own weak hit damage range, that would make it go from 226 to 298 up to 249 to 325. If you'll notice, the damage overlap is still VERY huge. With an overlap of damage from 249 to 298 (49 points), your minimum damage only increased by 23, and your max damage only increases by 26. That means you have just under a 50% chance of doing the same damage you would have done anyways.

Not to mention, sword warlords have the largest damage range in the game. Their min and max damage ranges only increase with an increase in level. So although you might say that "oh, when I get higher level, this 10% will make my damage go up even more!" You can't forget that when you get higher level, your damage range WILL BE HUMUNGOUS. You will have so much damage overlap that you probably wouldn't notice a difference unless you looked really REALLY hard. In fact, let's compare my weak hit damage range to my hard hit damage range right now. With rage, my hard hits go from 294 to 406 up to 323 to 447. There is damage overlap from 323 to 406 (83 points), my min damage only goes up by 29, and my max damage only goes up by 41. NOTICE NOW, THERE IS MORE DAMAGE OVERLAP THAN AN INCREASE IN MIN AND MAX COMBINED. The larger your range gets, the more unnoticable rage gets.


Compare that to accuracy. The instant I picked up a sword with 8% accuracy increase, I started going from missing 5 out of 20 hits to missing 1 out of 20 hits. That basically means I saved the casting time of approximately two skills and the SP cost involved.

To make it a less personal example, think of it like this. Damage is a fluctuating range. A range means inconsistancy, lots of inconsistancy. Accuracy is a solid number. It is the % that it is until you level up. There is a pretty big difference between hitting for 300, or 250, or 231, or 278, or 292, or 244, or just simply "miss" or "hit." The fact that accuracy has only two ways to register makes it an obviously more controllable stat.

Also think of this. Sword warlords are the highest damage dealers amongst the warrior class. This means that they deal larger numbers that take a longer amount of time to get out. Let's say that you're level 200 and you can do an average of 10k, 10k, 10k with triple crashes. Your 10% rage increase would make that read as 11k, 11k, 11k. However, since you lack the accuracy increase, this might read closer to 11k, miss, 11k. Missing once for a sword warlord is VERY. EFFING. BAD. Since you rely on so much damage going into such a small amount of hits, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE EVERY HIT MAKES ITS MARK. Having extra accuracy makes your damage more consistantly 10k, 10k, 10k.

And don't forget about damage overlap. Even with rage, your hits could still hit only 10k, and you will still miss sometimes. There are many chances where you missed the hit that would've been your strongest hit.

To sum things up, the main reason why sword warlords need accuracy is the following:

1. With such a huge damage range in the long term, you might not even feel that 10% damage because of the damage overlap that occurs.

2. Since sword warlords base their damage on 2 or 3 EXTREMELY strong hits, missing out on one hit will instantly cut your damage in half or reduce it to two-thirds optimal potential.

3. Since sword warlords are the slowest attacking warrior class, making up for that damage loss is very hard.

4. Since sword warriors have masteries that decrease their accuracy, you need an accuracy boost just so that you can even stay at base accuracy.


Moving onto spear warlords now, the reason why I suggest taking the rage path is because of one simple fact:

Spears are pretty much the exact opposite of swords.

Spears hit fast and many times. Swords hit slow and a couple times.

Spears hit lots of little numbers. Swords hit for a few large numbers.

Spears have a more contained damage range. Swords have an enourmous damage range.

Also, spear mastery does not have a mastery that decreases your physical accuracy, so you're always at least 5% above the base accuracy line with novice mastery.

The argument for spear warlords going for the rage path is as follows:

When you're dishing out a fairly quick DPS, what you want to make sure of is that your hits actually hurt. This would apply to bladers and gunslingers as well. Also, don't forget the crit damage involved in the rage path. When you can hit 30 or 40 hits in the same time a sword warlord hits 15 or 20 (exaggerated), YOUR CRIT RATE IS TECHNICALLY ALREADY DOUBLE. This is because you're dishing out so many chances for your crit to happen, and when that crit does happen, you want to make sure it smacks real hard.

In all honesty, spear warlords have the option of going either path. There is never a time where you have enough damage. There is never a time when you will have 100% accuracy on a monster that you can train on efficiently. What makes one option matter more than the other is the RATE of attack, AMOUNT of damage dealt, and VARITABILITY of the damage you can deal.

And thus ends my argument.

Since this is a debate, feel free to agree with or disagree with my logic. Whatever you do, MAKE SURE YOU POST EVIDENCE WITH YOUR AGREEMENT OR DISAGREEMENT. Even if you have to quote a section of my post, don't just say "lol I agree" or "your logic fails kthxbye." If you say things like that, I can only assume you didn't even read the post.

And try to keep flaming to a minimum.

DEBATE!

Credits: Thanks to parity and swankins for the update on the actual skill effects.

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qaiszero

Read the start and got bored. I'm not trying to be mean here but is this really necessary? I mean come on now, people will only stay a warrior to level 80 and to be honest LaTale is not one of those games where deciding skills is an extremely important decision, I believe whoever wants to pick concentration tree will do so, whoever wants to pick the other tree will do so.

If they end up not liking it they can reset for 100k and it's simple as that and I don't think feel either skill tree has some sort of amazing advantage over the other so why put so much thought to it?

Edit:
Forgot to mention, a warlord only has concentration skill tree in misc so that's the end of that.
(Rage skill tree and overpowering gaze etc is in Blader's misc skills)

KellionBane

You still miss because monsters have evade stats.

Duo

I don't understand what you mean by this. Last time I opened my misc skill menu I had the rage path as well. I wouldn't have even bothered posting this if warriors only had one path for misc skills.

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Kashis

it's up to you what you see fit to do. All of the misc skills for each class seem to either enhance their main strength or help cover up a weakness. I fully understand what you mean about constantly hitting for less damage or being less accurate for more. i think it's more of a personal choice really.

I'm going with damage for both my warriors. If I wanted more accurate attacks then I would have gone with knucks instead of spear/sword for warrior because all they get is accuracy masteries. This is all my opinion and it's really hard to determine the best build with them because of all of the statistical variances.

I remember having a similar arguement about axes and daggers on PSU...

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qaiszero

There is a difference between warrior and warlord mmkay?
I meant 2nd job warrior.
Rage tree = exclusive to Bladers
Concentration tree = exclusive to Warlord
If you still don't get what I'm saying I'll try to explain in some really simple way :/

Duo

The transition to randomly getting only concentration was not explained. That's all I needed clarification on. Someone on the OG forums already cleared it up for me without treating me like a little kid about it.

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noobie500

yes i know this post is kinda old but i find this to be a very excellent/usefully post.