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Eriond

Ah, they are indeed. They are indeed. And these problems are fundamental. They should hand over money and let the market do some of the work. Just like I advocate above. However, personal income taxes can sometimes have little to do with the free market. A rich person's money is not compnay money, it's a rich's person's personal wealth.

Like I say. Tax the rich more (and everyone else too, but less so than the rich), and business less. The rich are accountable to no one. Business is accountable to both government, consumer and shareholder. That's why money should be given to them.

However, government, while being fundamentally good and shoveling money around also equalizes wealth. Nothing else does. Equality, in my books, comes before freedom (you shouldn't have the freedom to ruin someone, just to make a profit, nor should you be free to be living in a mansion while there's a slum next door), though they are close together. That's why the evils of government are mitigated. They can equalize wealth. Nothing else can.

You're partly right. You're also partly wrong. Taxes are an incredibly important issue, and will shape the economy, and consequently, life, depending on how they are structured. While I agree that government and business both need to be more open, there's no real methods to acheive this that won't, as you say, take time. The mass also does influence things. Greatly. Just not in the way anyone expects or wants.

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Ronin

They for example tax companies for their waste, but don't really use the money to deal with the waste, but budget it into public transportation.

And the issue you want to avoid is to tax the rich people, because a parted society is very problematic.
A strong upper middle and high achievers class is necessary for fluctuation between the enterprising and the workers.

It creates a strong conflict;
See the example of the engineer before;
If you don't have a "productive elite" in know-how, in services, basically in everything besides fiscal, you will open up huge social inequalities and make it impossible for people to traverse between levels of wealth.

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Eriond

You are right, as I stated before, that there are issues that the government doesn't deal with, but again, this is mitigated by the fact that they're the only ones who balance wealth.

A higher tax rate won't divide the United States, it'll strengthen it. The less income disparity there is the more social mobility and generally the happier people are. If there's more tax, the United States will have a happier, more diverse, more educated and larger workforce.

Oh. I know. I just propose to expand the elite, instead of separating it from the rest of society.

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Neutral

the rich wont even care

Ronin

By taxing employees?

They are all in the same pot.

Taxing them, means stoping them from saving up, stopping them from saving up will cut the next gens. chances in education, stop spending and make them loose interest in taking up risks, such as entrepreneurship or investment. The turnout is a passive and pessimistic swing in society.

You exchange that for funding snow clearance on some 100 km trail into nowhere, because of a 100 soul community, where only old people and people who can't find a job live; No wonder, it's in the ****ing nowhere.

There is no point in developing regions that are worthless for everyone.
There is no point funding a public library to fill a quota even if no one ever turns up to rent out books there.

Things like that are a luxury, if people are so into all the crisis talk nowadays, they should realize that this is what their money goes into if you give it to the state;
Luxuries for political interest groups.

The investors, and the employers as they generally do not at all feel the income tax, just will live on happily ever after.

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Eriond

I'm not talking about luxuries, or ludicrous snow clearing projects. I'm talking about funding education and subsidizing university tuition and providing low/no-interest student loans, so that the workforce is more educated. Funding health care, so that the workforce is healthy. I propose higher income taxes, but lower corporate taxes. With corporate taxes lower, they'll either a), be getting paid more, or b) buying products that cost less, but either way, they'll still have around the same amount of money, (maybe a little lower, but that just means the government will have more funds), except that priorities will change.

If they fund health care and lower the financial bars of admission to universities, we'll be training far more engineers, scientists and doctors. That's what I mean about expanding the elite.

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Ronin

Yes, that are the responsibilities that the gov should take care of.
The question at hand is, will it do it and will it do it in a good way.

To a bigger extent it doesn't.

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