Free MMORPG Forums

Espada1 · 04-25-2009, 07:38 PM

Wow has toony graphics and it gets a lot of players.

Kashis · 04-26-2009, 01:53 AM

As far as MMO's go all the ones I want to play are not out in English (either yet or never will be) and are in my sig. There are a number of games I'm looking forward to playing when they come out in English that look to be different than what is currently out (some I've tried and I know are improvements or new concepts that are being tried out and are pretty good).

To me, it's not that the mmo market is as a whole, just for English speaking players. If you take a look around and do some video searching on youtube or other various video sites for online games, you'll most likely stumble across a bunch of foreign games that are of far better quality than what is currently available on our market. The amount of games that come out for KR and JP players also seems to be greater and they always get to jump on them first (sometimes they are exclusive). There are some badass concepts being applied to a number of games, we just don't see them (or sometimes appreciate the ones we do get access to) because we are so occupied with the mediocre pieces of garbage that we have had to deal with over the years.

I can't begin list all the times I've seen people go apeshit over new stuff coming out mainly because of the graphics they have, and it's more commonplace with 3D games with "realistic" graphics. But a lot of them are the same basic concepts we already are accustomed to so they are hardly anything new. Once they get past the initial excitement of "OMG this game is a visual orgy!" they hit that down slope of "man this game is starting to bore me" People want to hate on the cute, chibi, or kiddy graphics, but a lot of times that's where a lot of the new concepts are being added that are actually interesting. I've seen a number of people around here personally say they will not play mmo's if they look a certain way which closes them off to experiencing a number of really good ones.

Another thing you have to look at is "what is big over here?". I've also seen a number of threads on that game talking about how good and successful it is. A lot of times when you see people talking about how bad one game is they want to bring up how good WoW is. We probably got a number of die hard WoW fans here that have been playing for years and find it to be the best MMORPG on the market and that's the problem. How exactly do you open someone's mind up to something new when their idea of what a good game is has already been decided for a long time? At times it seems like people are not even giving some games a chance because of what they see in videos and hear from other players about what they experienced in the first five mins. The amount of poor reviews from people saying "this game is grindy or it looks like a piece of shit" is staggering. It's one thing for a person who's been playing games, especially one who has been dealing with MMO's for years, and knows what they are talking about to say something along those lines (though they still should keep the criticism to a minimum if they haven't played it) but new players are often persuaded by the words of more experienced gamers and are directed to what someone else likes. They then start their mmo career based on someone else's suggestion and develop a strong attachment to it.

Another problem is the battle systems used in some of those MMORPG's. A lot of the ones out are the same point n click pot spam, auto attack, press a hot key and watch the action, wait for skill a to cooldown while using skill b, generic garbage that is constantly filling the market. I've had my fun with them, but they are starting to get really old and really unoriginal. That kind of system is not good for PvP to me. I don't feel connected to my character at all in games with that kind of combat. I'm a big fan of the Smash Bros series, for example, as well as other fighting games (just not as good in them). In Brawl, as well as many other fighting games, you have to judge distance, read patterns, and make sure your command inputs are on point with one another. It's almost like a game of chess where you have to read your opponent's mind and deceive them into showing a weakness that you can cosign on. You have to be able to predict how a person will react to a certain action, then use one of your own to counter or parry theirs. Your character's gravitational pull (which in the Super Smash Bros. everyone has a unique setting), movement speed, attack speed, attack strength, attack impact on the opponent, reach and so many factors all play into the combat. I literally can "feel" my character through my controller when I play fighting games. For the most part, I can't say the same thing about MMORPGs. It just feels like I'm watching my character preform actions every so often as I activate them and monitor their health and magic levels. Even in 2D side scrollers, I feel that they lack the connection I've felt in even their console predecessors.

It doesn't even seem like people are looking for originality anymore, just the next "_____Killer" for a game that isn't that good in the first place. I'm still seeing some the same arguments over and over and to me it boils down to this.

"P2P > F2P"

there are good and bad of both, most don't have access to the best due to language barriers.

"___ > all other MMO's"

Chances are, ____ has a number of flaws that even the biggest fan can point out and they are probably non existent in other games or less noticeable. There isn't a single game out that is superior to all other in every aspect, but there are some that just fail short of being anything worth playing.

"PVP makes MMORPGs good"

MMORPGs are not about PvP, but teamwork. The style of combat used in a number of them are great for that but not PvP. PvP in MMORPGs serve to distract people from the grind. The amount of skill needed to actually be good in PvP is limited and is often ignored or useless if you do not have a proper build skill and stat wise or the right gear.

I always argue that

"Console > MMO"

More often than not, the systems used in console games are done far better and are more creative than MMO's. The Castlevania series has been one of the best when it comes to 2D side scrolling RPG's because of it's game play. players often need to jump a certain height to attack a certain target or watch out for pattens in enemy movements to avoid taking damage, which requires some very dexterous thumbs. In Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia, he main character is able to equip any kind of equipment which allows her to alter her physical and magical attack damage when necessary or find a suitable balance of the two. On each of her arms and upper back reside glyphs, which are used to activate various weapons, spells and buffs and can also be changed when needed. You are even given the ability to switch between three different sets of glyphs, real time, upon gaining a certain item which allows quick access. Various special attacks can also be preformed depending on the glyphs you have equipped on her arms, making the whole system a very unique and useful way of dispatching foes.

I've yet to play a 2D side scrolling mmorpg with the amount of customization as some of the console types. And that is just one game I can name with better game play, I could list a whole bunch more that offer some really the same or better as well as for the 3D MMORPGs.

There is some hope though for the future I think for us English speaking players. I tried Dragonica out not too long ago and it's a step in the right direction for side scrolling games. From the game play videos of Rusty Hearts and Ghost X, those games might also be worth getting into (at least for me). I think we have some hope coming but just in case, I'd suggest picking up another language and go play some foreign games. I'm seriously considering that.

Norrin Radd · 04-26-2009, 02:04 AM

The second it turned from being about who can make the best quality games, and who has the most powerful stuff to play the games on, gaming's purpose was finished.

Excellent, immense games are hard to find nowadays. Maybe it's theshift to multiplayer market or maybe it's the competition of technology, but something has changed.

I love the idea of Xbox Live, but I don't think it's being used to its best ability, and it's being used at the expense of single player gaming.

woot · 04-26-2009, 09:40 AM

One thing thats definately happening is games are just becoming noob friendly tailored so it doesn't take any skill or whatever just really pisses me off, theres just no fun in it when you know that it took absolutely no skill to pull off what you did bleh

Groteske · 04-26-2009, 09:44 AM

Stephen Colbert is so gonna sue somebody.

Slade · 04-26-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deimos

its relative.

there were plenty of sh*t games 15 years ago. but we just look at the past through rose tinted spectacles, rose tinted eyes and a brain drowned in tint of rose.

Did those people with the aforementioned rose tinted spectacles, eyes and brain drowned in a tint of rose cry tears of cozened indigo? I mean, rose?

Look, games today are fine, but some of them are just getting too...'cinematic', they're not games, they're just fleshed out graphics, lens flare and a whole lot of glisten. What we need are games that don't stick the whole 'tried and true' formula. It gets dull when you realize you've played the same game with the same stupid anime haircut 40 ****ing times. Yes, I'm talking to you, JRPGs.

Unless the games have stonking tits, then I'm all for it.

04-26-2009, 01:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kashis OnRPG Elite Member! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 5,024 Reputation: 150	As far as MMO's go all the ones I want to play are not out in English (either yet or never will be) and are in my sig. There are a number of games I'm looking forward to playing when they come out in English that look to be different than what is currently out (some I've tried and I know are improvements or new concepts that are being tried out and are pretty good). To me, it's not that the mmo market is as a whole, just for English speaking players. If you take a look around and do some video searching on youtube or other various video sites for online games, you'll most likely stumble across a bunch of foreign games that are of far better quality than what is currently available on our market. The amount of games that come out for KR and JP players also seems to be greater and they always get to jump on them first (sometimes they are exclusive). There are some badass concepts being applied to a number of games, we just don't see them (or sometimes appreciate the ones we do get access to) because we are so occupied with the mediocre pieces of garbage that we have had to deal with over the years. I can't begin list all the times I've seen people go apeshit over new stuff coming out mainly because of the graphics they have, and it's more commonplace with 3D games with "realistic" graphics. But a lot of them are the same basic concepts we already are accustomed to so they are hardly anything new. Once they get past the initial excitement of "OMG this game is a visual orgy!" they hit that down slope of "man this game is starting to bore me" People want to hate on the cute, chibi, or kiddy graphics, but a lot of times that's where a lot of the new concepts are being added that are actually interesting. I've seen a number of people around here personally say they will not play mmo's if they look a certain way which closes them off to experiencing a number of really good ones. Another thing you have to look at is "what is big over here?". I've also seen a number of threads on that game talking about how good and successful it is. A lot of times when you see people talking about how bad one game is they want to bring up how good WoW is. We probably got a number of die hard WoW fans here that have been playing for years and find it to be the best MMORPG on the market and that's the problem. How exactly do you open someone's mind up to something new when their idea of what a good game is has already been decided for a long time? At times it seems like people are not even giving some games a chance because of what they see in videos and hear from other players about what they experienced in the first five mins. The amount of poor reviews from people saying "this game is grindy or it looks like a piece of shit" is staggering. It's one thing for a person who's been playing games, especially one who has been dealing with MMO's for years, and knows what they are talking about to say something along those lines (though they still should keep the criticism to a minimum if they haven't played it) but new players are often persuaded by the words of more experienced gamers and are directed to what someone else likes. They then start their mmo career based on someone else's suggestion and develop a strong attachment to it. Another problem is the battle systems used in some of those MMORPG's. A lot of the ones out are the same point n click pot spam, auto attack, press a hot key and watch the action, wait for skill a to cooldown while using skill b, generic garbage that is constantly filling the market. I've had my fun with them, but they are starting to get really old and really unoriginal. That kind of system is not good for PvP to me. I don't feel connected to my character at all in games with that kind of combat. I'm a big fan of the Smash Bros series, for example, as well as other fighting games (just not as good in them). In Brawl, as well as many other fighting games, you have to judge distance, read patterns, and make sure your command inputs are on point with one another. It's almost like a game of chess where you have to read your opponent's mind and deceive them into showing a weakness that you can cosign on. You have to be able to predict how a person will react to a certain action, then use one of your own to counter or parry theirs. Your character's gravitational pull (which in the Super Smash Bros. everyone has a unique setting), movement speed, attack speed, attack strength, attack impact on the opponent, reach and so many factors all play into the combat. I literally can "feel" my character through my controller when I play fighting games. For the most part, I can't say the same thing about MMORPGs. It just feels like I'm watching my character preform actions every so often as I activate them and monitor their health and magic levels. Even in 2D side scrollers, I feel that they lack the connection I've felt in even their console predecessors. It doesn't even seem like people are looking for originality anymore, just the next "_____Killer" for a game that isn't that good in the first place. I'm still seeing some the same arguments over and over and to me it boils down to this. "P2P > F2P" there are good and bad of both, most don't have access to the best due to language barriers. "___ > all other MMO's" Chances are, ____ has a number of flaws that even the biggest fan can point out and they are probably non existent in other games or less noticeable. There isn't a single game out that is superior to all other in every aspect, but there are some that just fail short of being anything worth playing. "PVP makes MMORPGs good" MMORPGs are not about PvP, but teamwork. The style of combat used in a number of them are great for that but not PvP. PvP in MMORPGs serve to distract people from the grind. The amount of skill needed to actually be good in PvP is limited and is often ignored or useless if you do not have a proper build skill and stat wise or the right gear. I always argue that "Console > MMO" More often than not, the systems used in console games are done far better and are more creative than MMO's. The Castlevania series has been one of the best when it comes to 2D side scrolling RPG's because of it's game play. players often need to jump a certain height to attack a certain target or watch out for pattens in enemy movements to avoid taking damage, which requires some very dexterous thumbs. In Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia, he main character is able to equip any kind of equipment which allows her to alter her physical and magical attack damage when necessary or find a suitable balance of the two. On each of her arms and upper back reside glyphs, which are used to activate various weapons, spells and buffs and can also be changed when needed. You are even given the ability to switch between three different sets of glyphs, real time, upon gaining a certain item which allows quick access. Various special attacks can also be preformed depending on the glyphs you have equipped on her arms, making the whole system a very unique and useful way of dispatching foes. I've yet to play a 2D side scrolling mmorpg with the amount of customization as some of the console types. And that is just one game I can name with better game play, I could list a whole bunch more that offer some really the same or better as well as for the 3D MMORPGs. There is some hope though for the future I think for us English speaking players. I tried Dragonica out not too long ago and it's a step in the right direction for side scrolling games. From the game play videos of Rusty Hearts and Ghost X, those games might also be worth getting into (at least for me). I think we have some hope coming but just in case, I'd suggest picking up another language and go play some foreign games. I'm seriously considering that. __________________ "Rules do not exist to bind you, they exist so you may know your freedoms" "Death is blind. It comes for all souls regardless of their worth (or lack thereof)." Be careful of what you say, tomorrow or today, for the words you now speak, may become the poison your enemies later seek; truth. The only difference between a good idea and a bad idea is presentation. http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kashis Last edited by Kashis; 04-26-2009 at 02:04 AM.

04-26-2009, 09:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
woot Cingal's Collar Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,533 Reputation: 18	One thing thats definately happening is games are just becoming noob friendly tailored so it doesn't take any skill or whatever just really pisses me off, theres just no fun in it when you know that it took absolutely no skill to pull off what you did bleh __________________ Latest signature favorite sig Still learning

04-26-2009, 09:44 AM	#15 (permalink)
Groteske OnRPG Elite Member! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Holocaust Prison Posts: 7,333 Reputation: 196	Stephen Colbert is so gonna sue somebody. __________________ You put stuff in your mouth, right?

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04-25-2009, 07:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Espada1 Xenonight2's Zealot Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,466 Reputation: 32	Wow has toony graphics and it gets a lot of players.

04-26-2009, 02:04 AM	#13 (permalink)
Norrin Radd Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Space Posts: 9,587 Reputation: 235	The second it turned from being about who can make the best quality games, and who has the most powerful stuff to play the games on, gaming's purpose was finished. Excellent, immense games are hard to find nowadays. Maybe it's theshift to multiplayer market or maybe it's the competition of technology, but something has changed. I love the idea of Xbox Live, but I don't think it's being used to its best ability, and it's being used at the expense of single player gaming.