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iMicro

Well, I suppose you have a point there. I'm sorry if I don't know about comics, did I mention anywhere that I did? Tell me why I should PAY money to read a comic, when I could go on my computer, hit up an online resource or watch a show/movie and get everything out of it without paying a cent?

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Norrin Radd

You're asking why you should pay for something you enjoy as opposed to being a disgraceful, thieving freeloader?

I've no clue, you've got me there.

Mordar

I lol'ed

but no really, it's funny how people say if they want to read about "superheroes" they could go to a movie or a series, come on, I only wish for stuff like what happens on comics being properly portrayed on a live show or even an animated series besides the sporadic craptastic movies or cartoons

I guess not knowing about anything at all means you have the right to talk like you do, it baffles me

iMicro

Ask that same question to all those people who DL games and movies. That, and like I mentioned earlier, they aren't productive at all.

Waste of money unless you're like a crazy collector.

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Norrin Radd

You're suggesting that, as a counter to my claim, I ask all those disgraceful freeloaders which is better?

Are you new to the concept of structured arguments?

Obviously THEY aren't going to feel downloading and stealing are that bad, they do it.

Why do you keep saying comics aren't productive? What's more productive; reading a comic book or sitting on your *** and watching a movie?

The fact is, you get out what you want. You might find movies as inspiring as some find comics. The other fact is that books and comics are capable of conveying WAY more than any movie or TV show, fact. On that note; you wanna talk about how movies are more PRODUCTIVE? You wanna talk about waste?

Go watch Watchmen. Three hours and they still couldn't fit everything in. A director's cut and additional DVD later, and they STILL can't.

Alan Moore fit it all into a book for a lot less money. Hollywood took the budget of a third world nation and still didn't get it right. Productive or a waste? Case closed.

True, because I'm clearly just a passive fan, aren't I?

Secondly, who are you to say what a waste of money is? Money is never a waste if you're happy with the purchase as an individual. I am immensely happy with owning that particular comic, so therefore it is nowhere near a waste.

Honestly, some people.

iMicro

Reading a book, comics don't count, 1 comic is the equivalent of 1 chapter of a novel, and less indepth. It does have pictures though
Furthermore, comics don't build onto your reading/comprehension skills at all.

Books and comics are completely different, books yes, comics no. Fact? That's 100% opinion, and frankly, 100% false.

Ok, you got me there. It's a waste IMO, that better? This also brings us back to how productive they are, spending that much money on a comic definitely isn't productive.

Theres your answer. I'm not saying "I HATE COMICS!!" btw, I used to read them too. You're acting like a total elitist about it btw.

Honestly, some people.

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Norrin Radd

Your multiple parts argument fails on two main levels.

1) You can usually buy the stories in one book once they've been released.

2) They are released in multiple parts because they are on-going stories. They do not have set endings, they continue on. You can't have one book or one comic for a story or a character that goes on for ages.

That's the difference between novels and comic books; novels are story based. Comics are CHARACTER story based and on-going. Hence why even some novels have sequels.

Comics don't build your reading or comprehension skills? My nephew is two years old, barely. The doctors he sees have said he has comprehension and speaking ability of a five or six year old. He doesn't read War and Peace, he reads Spider-Man (The kids ones obviously), Peppa Pig and The Backyardigans.

He learned to distinguish that when letters are typed larger and bolder, it is meant to depict rise in volume or what not. So don't sit there making such b.s. claims, please.

How is it? You look at literally every comic OR book to movie adaptation. No matter how good the movie is, it always sacrifices parts of the book or loses some of the feel.

Books are impossible to recreate as creatively because each reader interprets everything differently, so all you ever get is the director's interpretation of what he read.

Comics are impossible to recreate as creatively for the same reasons as books, except that while you do not create your own images. You are allowed and permitted to absorb the depictions of stories and events in a VISUAL manner at your own leisure, with art AND written word. Text AND image, both portraying a written story harmoniously.

Watchmen proves that if you get dragged through it at so many frames per second, it fails.

What a load of old rubbish.

How is ME spending that much money on a comic...an indication of the COMIC being a non-productive medium? Surely, if anything, it would be ME with the problem, not the comic. It would.

However, there is no problem. I work for the money I earn, I spend my money on that which inspires me or brings me joy, same as many people. Turns out that those things are comic books. I never buy things I cannot afford, because I am sensible with my money. If I couldn't have afforded that, I'd not have bought it.

Comics are massively productive and influential. To the point that they inspire moviemakers to adapt them, which...you claim is the more productive medium, despite them costing more and conveying...less. That means that...you're flat-out wrong...and I'm right.

It's an elitist medium, isn't it? Yes.

Way more popular NOW, but still very much a cult hobby. It has spent most of its time being shunned by the masses, it took writers like Alan Moore to show the world that comics can be a truly amazing medium to be taken seriously. So, when people start to decide, decades and decades on that comics are cool and want to like them, we have every right to adopt a bit of "Oh, so we're cool enough now, are we?".

So yes, I got you there and just about everywhere else. You talk a lot of unfounded nonsense. You've come into this thread with a knowledge of the medium so dire and so lacking that it's honestly embarrassing to read.

This is precisely why I refuse to take blame for people getting mad at me in debates; if you can't back yourself up, don't get involved at all. Especially do not get mad at me for you looking foolish.

Murxidon

I don't enjoy comics. Not my thing. I don't read as much as I would like to nowadays, and whenever I do it's non-fiction.

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iMicro

Good job, you just proved that comics are beneficial to 2 year olds, so are pop-up books. Why don't we read comics in school then? Why must we read books?

How is that a bad thing? That's a good thing. At least it gets our minds going.


Fixed it for you.

Do you ever see people spend ~$275 on a novel? I'm sure there are MANY people out there who spend that much money on comics. Once you get into them enough, you kind of get brainwashed into spending that much, blame the medium, not yourself.

I claimed that movies were a more productive medium than comics? Really? Where? I said books were.

(offtopic) To be honest, the reason it's a cult hobby is because if you don't know anything about them it's almost impossible to get into them. Comics could be a lot more mainstream if it weren't for this.

I'm not mad, I just think you're not making any sense.

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Norrin Radd

There is a specific Marvel range that is aimed at younger readers, I highlighted this and you chose to ignore it in favour of making a truly ludicrous point that leads nowhere.

The fact that he even got something out of those proves that you can learn from them. You said they do not help reading or comprehension; that's a flawed argument on many levels.

1) We're not talking about babies here, we're talking about comics for young teens to adults. The kind that myself and many others here would read. If you need help with reading comprehension at THIS age, then you have bigger problems. When I read novels it doesn't advance my reading comprehension because...I'm a perfectly capable reader anyway.

2) The range for Marvel aimed at really young kids still clearly have elements that they can learn from. However, it's stupid to even discuss this because those are not the kind of comics I'm talking about. Obviously THOSE are for kids because they're aimed at kids. Only kids that young would need help with reading comprehension, and they factually can help. Again, you're 100% wrong.

If you can't formulate an argument and stick to the correct track and cases in point, please save yourself further embarrassment.

"You can't further your reading comprehension.", "My nephew has learned and advanced his reading and interpretation from the kids' Marvel comics.", "HAH! So even two year olds like them.". Stupid thing to say.

It's neither bad nor good, but it certainly doesn't prove movies are way more creative and productive. They cost more, they are limited to a timeframe etc. You've already conceded this point, so it's silly to argue.

I'm not brainwashed into anything, I spend what I want to spend on what I wish to spend it on.

It's not the comics fault, there is NO fault here because there is no wrongdoing. You've actually run out of points and debate foundation to the point that you're telling ME why I spend money on comics. I spend money because it gives me joy and inspiration, not because I am brainwashed. FACT. 100%, undeniable, stone-wall fact. It's me we're talking about, so you don't have a say. Sorry.

Leave the debate if that's what you're resorting to, it's embarrassing. Seriously, it is. If I were you and I saw MYSELF debating so desperately, I'd be ashamed.

You implied it by suggesting them as an alternative to comics ALONG with books.

Books being more productive is entirely relative. They take longer to make, for example and all of that time and money is put into ONE book.

There's no right or wrong in the debate as to whether books or comics are more productive, because that depends on what you feel they produce. You feel you get way more out of books. I get more out of some comics than I do out of books, I get more out of books than I do out of some comics.

If that were true, nobody would be into them. Chicken Vs Egg.

Not everyone who has been into comics has been into them from the start. It's not impossible to get into comics. You LEARN about them by getting into them, so it's nonsense to say that you can't get into them because you don't know anything. You either know nothing because you aren't interested, or you know nothing because you haven't tried. It takes trying and effort to gain the knowledge.

Your argument is eating itself there, I'm afraid.

That's because you are wrong in just about everything you say and are clearly beyond the reach of anything I've said. For what reason? I know not. No matter what facts or logic I provide you with, you seem intent on trying to discredit the medium, and you fail, because nothing you say holds up under scrutiny.

On that note; I want you to tell me what your experience with comics is. I want title names and if you can, years you were into them. Trust me when I say I'll know if you're lying.