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Raiyne

Hahahaha!

Well, I guess that's what the refractory period is for!

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Ronin

I am not a Marxist; I do not see the work a human being carries out as the ultimate scale of the ethical value of his existence.

In Western countries, btw, roughly 60% of the population are not economically active. I would really not think that early 19th century ways of thinking can tell us how to evaluate society to the least as the result of those was anything but prosperity and social flourishing.

@You pretty apparent obsession with trying to prove that endorphins are addicitive at all and in their quality comparably psychologically active as crystal meth (generic place holder);
Well, taking a dump creates endorphins.
Scratching does to.
Walking about in the sun does.
Oddly enough any kind of impulse to the nervus symphaticus does create a numerous numbers of cascades of substances to be released; Be it endorphins, or hormones like adrenaline, or sexual hormones, etc. leading to all sorts of psychological reactions, be it controllable, or uncontrollable, even odd muscle cramps such as laughter.
(Laughter actually is mainly a method to control the pressure in the cranium; Suppressing it by outside force could be causing serious harm. The rush of blood and fluids around your body, that you feel when laughing, is not coming from the physical exercise of laughing which it's contrary trying to combat it. Otherwise, your head would turn very red, your thongue will swell, your eyes will protrude and you will die, if it's either before or after you start bleeding out of your ears and eyes, i don't know.)

They have no conditioning effect, the dosage will never exceed what the body can naturally produce and you will never get physically addicted to them. Those levels of acclimatization and declimatization of a healthy normal human being actually are working in very sensible painless ways, just as one would assume they would.

There is no addiction one-way street with taking dumps and there isn't with running, or masturbation, or with scratching yourself, or blinking, or laughing.

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Xenonight2

feofilakt:

I'm not exactly sure if you realize exactly how addictions work. In almost all serious cases of addictions, it's not just endorphin rushes and "happy" chemicals colliding in the brain. Usually (that is, far more often than not, but not every single case) a true addiction occurs (that is, not a psychological dependency, but rather the addiction that I outlined earlier in the topic) when there is something else other than the production of the chemicals in the brain. This can be anything from a genetic predisposition to a certain type of addiction (alcoholism being one of these), from an already existing chemical inbalance that makes the patient more susceptible to an addiction (such as manic depression), or a psychological syndrome such as AHDH and OCD (the latter of which has recently been closely identified with sex addiction, although details of sex addiction are sketchy at best and there is little definitive on the subject), to an extremely serious problem in someone's life leading to a need for escapism (such as those in an abusive relationship) or someone who has a deep lack of satisfaction with anything in life (although this is more like manic depression), and so on and so forth, et cetera, et cetera. These are the types of people who are most likely to get an addiction.

The way you put it is as if anyone who masturbates frequently is at risk of falling deep into a cycle of masturbating as their only source of happiness. Fact is, that isn't really true. Really, the only type of addictions that I am aware of that everyone is at risk if they keep it up long enough is smoking, and caffeine - but these have actually not too much to do with endorphins, but other addictive substances. Masturbation is not one of these addictions.

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/ohe/librar...sturbating.htm
http://www.chmed.com/mod.php?mod=use...5666b63fb98062

One particular paragraph is of note: In short, compulsive masturbation (where the patient has an extremely strong urge to masturbate, almost and sometimes even to the point of psychological dependency, although rarely addiction) is not something that begins when the patient begins masturbating more and more frequently to attain that orgasm that he had a few weeks ago, but actually when the patient is under severe stress, or as a way of dealing with past sexual abuse. NOT because they have a crippling need to get that orgasm, like you have said.

I can verify this: there was a period in my adolescence when I was under severe stress from many family issues, not to mention depression, and masturbation was one of the ways that I dealt with it. Two or three times a day for several months. However, when the family issues passed, and I matured enough as a person to accept the events that happened, the need to masturbate disappeared.

Now, I have many rewarding hobbies, and a good circle of friends, and I only masturbate when I'm really horny and it's distracting me. Did I fall into a deep addiction to masturbation, and I was crippled as my compulsive need to touch myself that I could no longer function in society as you so eloquently put it? No. In fact, the need to masturbate is not so debilitating that someone who tries their hardest not to masturbate suffers from withdrawls that make them unable to hold down a job. That is so rare that it's hardly worth mentioning. Compulsive masturbation simply does not work that way, and I have yet to read an articl showing that masturbation withdrawl is debilitating, let alone a scientific article.

Wicked315

This thread is now just you 3-4 going back and forth on, seriously.

The question has already been answered.

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Xenonight2

The direction of topics change fluidly, the same way that conversations do in real life, Wicked315. It's not a big deal.

Edit: I also forgot to mention this:

Wicked315

I never said it was a big deal. I just told you what you were doing, don't get all defensive.

"This thread is just you 4 going back and forth"

Are you not exchanging opinions?

"The question has been answered already"

Which it has.

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feofilakt

Endorphins are relative to the relief of stress, and never did I say that nothing else produces it. For example, the consumption of sugar can release endorphins.

Thus, laughter, blinking, itching, and other common activities only release endorphins if it has a required use. For example, blinking is a function to keep the eyes moist and in optimal condition. If one has dry eyes, it can cause stress due to many factors. Thus, blinking can cause the release of endorphins during that process.


In other words, all of your examples can be tied to requirement-based, except for masturbation. As this thread has shown, there are individuals whom masturbate for the simple reason that they can't think of anything else to do at the time. This flies in the face of masturbation being used purely for the relief of sexual stress, and instead these individuals are using it for what can only be the endorphins, because it is released regardless of requirement, unlike blinking, itching, etc.

Nice attempt, though.

There are myriad reasons there would be numbers that high. I don't see how masturbation ties into the rates of economically inactive individuals, unless you're trying to say that as more people are inactive, they tend to be more depressed with their life, meaning sources of happiness are abused at higher ratios, which can include masturbation.


Edit: @Xenonight2

You're not connecting the similarity behind the reasoning for compulsive masturbation when compared to other products that an individual can become addicted to. When a person is under heavy stress, there have been occasions where they turn to drinking, smoking, or so forth. The fact that masturbation follows the exact same line of reasoning (heavy stress), it is enough of a similarity to suggest that there is a possibility to become addicted to the endorphins released through masturbating.

I have no doubt that masturbation is less addictive than the previously mentioned substances, to suggest that there is zero chance for people to become dependent upon masturbation for happiness (even when they're not actually stressed) is to underestimate the incompetence of humanity as a whole.

Xenonight2

Sorry, I get paranoid sometimes.

Wicked315

Yeah that's what I thought...bitch.

No I am kidding. It's all good. (I apologize too)



I'll think of something to contribute to this thread in a few moments.

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Ronin

No, you were pointing out that people are not functioning in society if they would wank all day.

However, you are more likely a functioning member of society when you spend your whole day in front of the TV, than when working; Masturbation does not only not distract from watching TV, many see those as activities that very much fit to enhance each other.

@the endorphins thing:
What is the use of scratching?
Fighting the battle against parasites that do not exist? Worsening your inflammations and hightening your chances of getting infected with germs?

Picking your nose: Good or bad?
Eating the bugger? Good or bad?

Masturbating? Good or bad?

No question to be asked simpler than that (male perspective, I imagine the female is similar, just a little less frantically researched);
It's neither, it's irrelevant. If you are a healthy normal sexually functional male being, you will simply just ejaculate on your own, most likely in your sleep.

Well, if that servers any reason? I am sure it's just one of thoes body functions that don't, just like the urge to masturbate.

The only two there are I think, because as you said any other has a reason, but ejaculation without intercourse "definitely" doesn't.

Now that I already brought up woman, you surely know the good old story of that poor doctor that had to invent the vibrator to wank women more effectively off in his praxis without suffering from inflammations of his wrists.
The common cure of the psychological well established illness of "hysteria" (yea, they had to rename it, because it's offensive to first mentally oppress females to not pleasure themselves, than when they develop a whole new kind psychosis tell them of for suffering from it) is wanking. As many woman do not and did not know how to wank, there is the need for professional help (psychiatrists), that either thought them how to do it, or if they wouldn't out of shame give them some pills/hypnosis/professional look and do the job for them.

[I am disappointed that my vocabulary on masturbation does not fit the fair gender, so I'll state it blunt and realistic, but I find that very fact comical. Probably I am just not that inspired atm, this discussion really is ultra technical...]

That's not a sound, logical deduction.
If you can't establish a direct relation, you can't. A potential indirect relation is not really sufficient to create an argument against this.

"Socrates is hungry; The cat is hungry; Socrates is a cat" is already beyond the boundary, but your
"Socrates is hungry; The car is hungry; Socrates is a car" is not getting the foot back into the door, because it is at least similar to well known bullshit.

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