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power_gamer_6

I think this needs to be moved to the General Programming section... But yeah, C++ is good, it's what most of the big guys use.

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TwitcH

After alot of reading on the subject, I'm gonna say Java is the better starting point.

- It is just as fast as C++ (some links say it's faster!!)
- It is easier to learn than C++ (this isnt 100% fact, just what most sites said.)
- It is more portable than C++

That's all i've got so far, but remember these arent my opinion's these are just what i've come up with after reading up on both languages tonight. So if anyone thinks any of this is incorrect, please say so

HopeDagger

No, Java is slower than C++. Lots of websites try to create esoteric testing scenarios that would make Java faster, but in the other 98% of the programs you'll wite, C++ will always take the lead. This is simply because Java runs on a Virtual Machine, and is interpreted bytecode. C++ on the other hand is pure machine code that requires no interpretation. True that JIT compiling exists for Java, but it still doesn't give it the same edge as C++, due to inherent things to Java that slow it down, like automatic garbage collection, auto array bounds checking, etc.

Not to say that Java isn't comparitively fast, though. It's perfectly suitable for most non-commercial game projects.

I agree with you there. Although Java's enforced OOP can make it daunting on a beginner, the removal of pointers and memory-management nonsense makes things feel a LOT cleaner and easier to grasp. C++ still has a lot more nice IDEs though.

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Gravedigger

Nicely put do not look at VB as a useless program, even with the simplicity of the program it is a very useful program and using DirectX and VB you can make good quality games, there are a lot of free source code websites that provide game source codes, which I have played and contributed towards.

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punkerdan85

O RLY? ...so all that mess about being converted into Assembly and then into the actual 1's and 0's is all just a bunch of BS, right? Right... :rolleyes:

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Digidestined

I don't know much about programming, but I have been told that C++ is the best programming language so far. When I start to learn a programming language for my game programming career, I will be choosing to learn C++. If I were you, I would start learning C# early.

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Shattered Skies

Pointers were the most annoying thing for me to grasp when I was learning C++ in college, and to this day it still is. When we were taught Java, I absolutely despised the language cause I heard so much fuss about it. But within 2 months of programming in the language, every stereotype that Ive heard about it were gone and I was in love with the language. Partly cause no worries anymore about pointers, and I loved working soley in OOP, it was and is fun.

Of course, when you are starting out, the difference in speed with most of the programs you wrote, and comparing them to a C++ program, there really is no difference in the two because of the realitively small size. I've yet to make a "huge" project yet. I do know, though, that Java is slower then C++ which is why its the preferred choice in MMOs or other games.

I still personally recommend Java because of the learning curve is a little better in my opinion, and gets you right into OOP which would really help when it comes to learning C++ or any other language at that. I recommend this to the fellows at OnGameDev.com as well whenever this very same topic comes up.

ractoc

I've been programming Java for some years now, both for fun and professionally. And I agree with Shattered skies about it being a very nice language to code in. With respect to the whole C++/C# thing, C# is nothing more then C++ with Java syntax. (Or at least from the 4 months I had to put up with it, I came to that conclusion).
The fact that Java enforces OO will indeed help when switching to C++. Since C++ supports OO but does not enforce it. In C++ you can still write your entire program in one flat file.

The idea though that Java wouldn't be usefull for MMO games is somewhat outdated though. I agree that for the server side of things C++ is the way to go because this is where speed is most important. But client side it mostly depends on the type of game you are programming. Most RPG games don't need those uber speeds anyways. And with current computers the differences aren't that big to begin with.

I've been testing around with the new Java 6.0 beta release and I find that they've upped the speed once more so, while not there yet, they are getting closer. Most of the game lag however is (usually) in the graphics area of the game or the networking. With current internet connections getting faster and faster, network lag is less and less of an issue. The graphics lag is determined fora big part by your graphics card and the way the game builds up the environment.
Commercial games tend to be much heavier in this respect then hobbyist games, so they need much more computing power / speed on the graphics area. However, this still doesn't exlude Java, since you can just offload the graphics bit to a C++ library from java.

The biggest advantage of using Java over C++ is portability. If you plan on deplpying the client side of your game on PC, Mac and Linux, I would say go with Java and just offload the really tim crittical parts (such as graphics) to a C++ library. This cuts down porting effort big time, since only that small portion of the game needs to be altered.

just my vision on things...

Mark