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Lina

I've been taking a philosophy college class which concentrates on issues concerning race, class, gender, and sexuality, and we're currently on the gender and sexuality part of the course.

Our instructor has brought up a lot of ideas about how most or many societies in the world (example USA) have a binary system when it comes to gender and sexuality.

The system, pretty obvious, is the idea that there's only male/masculine, female/feminine, and heterosexuality, and anyone who doesn't fit those ideas is known as a "gender traitor."

Gender traitors are ... let's say 'very greatly disliked' by people who are too devoted to the binary system.

One theory is about how people identify a part of themselves greatly on their gender. A man is masculine, for example, the opposite and most definitely NOT a woman, feminine.
It's and idea that man =/= woman in any way, and that it is in fact insulting to call a man a woman or girl, even more to call them gay or something along those lines.
The idea of not fitting into this is to oppose what someone identifies themselves as, what society wants them to be, what they SHOULD be.

One of the problematic examples that were brought up (this coming from my textbook):

*A transexual person (once male, now female) attempts to use a women's restroom. The women complain of a feeling of 'being raped' (emotionally and mentally, not physically) by having such a person come into their restroom.
Seeing this situation, she tries the men's room. The men describe the exact same feeling, and even threaten to chase her down or beat her up if she tries to use their restroom.

This example is about homophobia, obviously, but I somewhat ponder if this could be avoided if people were raised differently to not use gender as so deeply part of who they are, that masculinity and femininity don't have to be one or the other based on your biological build.

!!! Discussion time starts here !!!

-What do you think of the binary system? Does it work? Is it problematic?
-Any examples, stories, or arguments to share that support your view?


*This was the introduction to the Gender Studies section of my textbook, specifically referring to a chapter about homophobia.

Lawliet1

Interesting.

Well lets think about the idea of parents giving their son barbies to play with instead of say transformers toys.

How much will this effect the gender identity of the son?It seems like a concept of genders relation to personality.

If every person has a personality then gender identities can be thought to reinforce their social identities,because society has a way of encouraging gender mechanics,it make it to were it's what expected of you in a general sense.

I believe core personality is unaltered by this kind of influence and that gender identity becomes a more traditional social ideology.It's especially noticeable in younger children who are more impressionable.Impressionability is what makes gender identity promotable by society.

In regards to the situation about the trans gender,you have to ask how much gender identity has to do with actual male/female genitalia.

Imagine a world where the media didn't encourage gender identities,at the very least we can reasonably assume that they would still procreate thus expressing the natural roles of males and females.

The idea of males being masculine and females being feminine are ideologies that have become social norms through the effectiveness of impressionability.But these are roles that people feel comfortable with so they seem natural enough.

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Eusnon

Women feel and think differently from men so there is clearly a difference when it comes to stuff and I suppose that that's what sets the core of someone's em gender traits or some crap so while you may find people crossing boundaries they're just cheap imitations.

But seriously...who actually wants to be a woman : 3 IMO if transsexuals had to actually experience everything real women do then they'd prolly change their minds

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Deimos

greater liberalism in all aspects of life from social perspectives to personal opinions IS evolution.

maybe we arent evolving biologically any more as a species but we are evolving psychologically.

tolerance and acceptance are the result of this. intolerance and fear of the unknown are relics of our primitive past. this grey area of gender will eventually resolve itself once society in general lets go of its subjective prejudices.

its only a matter of time. time will always erode any cultural beleifs/traditions.



Every generation thinks the one after it is "too loud" or "too sexual" or whatever. partly because the older generation feels threatened by the young and partly because the younger generation feels like it has something to prove against the older.

just needs time man. thats all.

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Jammart

That is actually more-or-less false. The only true difference between the two genders is genitalia, and the hormones they produce (this is completely disregarding cosmetics, in which case it would be obvious that genders 'feel' differently). Men produce much more testosterone than women, and women produce much more estrogen than men. Both genders have both hormones; they are only distributed differently in the body.

However, it is common for a man to produce more estrogen than the average male, and vice versa for women. To say so definitely that genders think differently based on these core differences that can potentially be so subtle, is very ignorant. Transsexuals change sexes because they are uncomfortable in their skin, and truly believe they belong as the opposite gender.. they do not simply choose to switch over for kicks.

I've researched this topic quite a bit (maybe not as philosophically as you have been learning). As a male who doesn't identify with his gender, I am a very androgynous individual and I feel comfortable as a gender-neutral. That does not mean that I am a male who wishes to be a female though.

Very interesting topic .


Definitely. There is also a great deal of natural instincts that play in… a mildly off-topic example would be the 'cougar effect'; when a woman is pre-menopausal, they reach a sexual peak which acts as a kind of last chance to procreate, in which they seek younger, fitter men.

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TreyTrey12

To be honest, all this deals with society and influence that are brought into a persons field of view.

Its really a discussion that is like politics, or religion; You just can't breach a conclusion simply because of different views.




-What do you think of the binary system? Does it work? Is it problematic?
Well, for starters its naturally a crude way of thinking; People are always going to have different ideas. No it doesn't work, a guy who wears skinny jeans with a small build doesn't necessarily mean hes gay. And yes its very problematic.

-Any examples, stories, or arguments to share that support your view?
One of my stories or examples for this is the skinny jean clothing movement that started during 2006 - Present. Naturally when a person think of slim fitted, or tight jeans they think of a woman to show her curves. However, when males started to adapt to the skinny jean movement lots of negativity appeared; Being called gay/***/no balls.. etc because it seemed /feminine/. But it really isnt, Slim jeans are very stylish and offer a clean and sophisticated look towards the old baggy/large jeans. Personally ill never wear another pair of baggy jeans ever. This is a great example of the binary system, because so many people are hard-coded into believing what a PERSON should be, and not what they can become of themselves. Im probably the most metrosexual person out of all my friends; I dont mind if a gay guy hits on me, and i get along well with gays simply because they are people. Im pretty sure in my sexuality enough to know "Gay" isnt a virus.

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Lina

Two things:

1. As Lawliet mentioned about gender being about personality, that's something we hear about in class.

Sex (not the act of) = your biological setup based on genitalia
Gender = part of your personality and way you identify yourself

2. TreyTrey also mentions there's no clear answer, as this is like religion and politics.
That's true, and I do admit I lean towards the idea that the binary system doesn't cover enough ground and etc etc, and also like religion and politics it would take a helluva long time to ever change.

Civil

Women and Men are very different. Science.

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Eusnon

No...it isn't. I don't mean that man A thinks that there's nothing wrong with his friend (guy) cheating on his girlfriend while woman A thinks that its incredibly wrong.

I mean the way that men and women think are actually different as in men tend to do things purely off of memory and women lean more to how they felt at the time. I read about it.

And about the feel part women do tend to be less durable and more sensitive than men. And thats because while the men were out hunting and shit they were taking care of the children and all that.

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Jammart

I don't really understand your first paragraph..

What I meant is exactly the opposite of what you think. Yes, some women are more sensitive than men. Key word : SOME. Some men are more sensitive than most women… I know many! You're only focusing on the two extremes. There is no scientific proof that genders are really different other than the physical.

I hope you don't feel any offence from my post, I'm only debating :P.

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