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Lorek

Try living in the town they do.

Its a regular thing and most people just pass by them without giving it a glance now.

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kain222

One question: Do you believe in freedom of speech?

They aren't inciting violence because they're not attacking anyone or doing anything which can't be ignored.

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thesimp

Yup

Protesting at Funerals is doing something which can incite Violence

Why?

Because they are harassing people and causing them emotional stress/trauma which may cause them (the people they are protesting) to attack or retaliate.

And unless I got this law thing wrong, that's illegal on 2 laws
1) Harassment directly
2) Inciting Violence through harassment

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kain222

I don't know enough about American law to argue with that point, so I'll leave that up to someone else. Though if they fall under those laws when picketing at funerals then I would agree with locking them up, as personally I find it revolting.

But when you advocate freedom of speech, the natural thing that rises out of that every now and then will be people who are abusing it, or extremists whose opinion run directly against that of the majority.

Does that mean they should be put to death? Wouldn't that just be going agaisnt everything that freedom of speech stands for?

It's disgusting and I hate them as much as anyone else, but no. They should be allowed to voice their opinion no matter how hateful it is, otherwise you just become a hypocrite.

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Ronin

Inciting violence is only possible if you tell someone to attack a third party.

If people take justice into their own hands an obstruct the law that way, the ones assaulted are not the guilty party, always the attacking are.

Considering demonstrations and obstruction of public peace at funerals:
A lot of rather curious state laws arose from that, like bans of protests at the funeral of military serviceman that lead to an arrest and yearlong legal procedure against a couple who showed up at a funeral in a van with contra-bush stickers, because they wanted to join the funeral of a close friend of theirs, who died during a tour in Iraq.

They where arrested, harassed for over 2 years with the threat of jail time and finally declared not guilty.

What comes from this?
Laws about what is allowed and what isn't in the public space of a cemetery are very sensible matter.

The protests do not take place anymore at the same scale (there is a lot of tweaking still under the way along with the issues of constitutionality and how to make laws general ins scope and just to everyone equally). You can not prevent anything bad from going down, but this matter is a matter of the past, regulations have been by now formed to prevent such events and many of the states and the gov have done the job. Their job. Not yours.

What kind of grudges do people hold now? Several years later? It's sad really. All you do is giving fools a stage and still account their victory as given and ignore that they have by now lost nearly any tool of theirs to make an impact.
Stop the stupid believe that what they say matters. They have no more sting do they? They can go an protest matters that they can't change and that are unrelated to them for all they want forever.

Now people who want to eradicate them from the face of the earth are mean spiteful backwardish people, people who are destructive to society and who only feel that they need to satisfy a grudge, because society as a whole does so few good things, that this completely irrelevant small stings suddenly start to look as if they are the news of the day.

They aren't. Who, in his sane mind cares?
Go out and carry a candle to the unknown soldiers grave you should find at any cemetery once a year and you have changed more in your life than those people can influence it, something that words can't take away and something that can matter.

Of course this is the minimum of the minimal. People who do stuff don't have time to spite people who spite them. Those people who won't spite them back are the only people who are truly better than them.
Those who do not change anything for good and thus feel bad about the world: Well they should shut it, because going around looking for scapegoats won't make their contribution bigger.

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thesimp

nice speech, thanks for the clarification although its straight up wrong of them :/

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