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kait0s

Hahahaha, so serious in here right now.

Bottom line is i was raised with some physical touch. As far as im concerned, everyone in this family was. Not just my father, but my uncles and aunts, who were all raised by my granpaw the same. I remember sitting down at Christmas hearing stories of my granmaw wrapping my father around a tree with some rope for 2 days cause he ran away twice. She whopped his *** and tied him to a tree. Lets say he never done it again.

@Xeno
You didn't have to type all that out. I wasn't saying you're an idiot, and i wasn't saying you're shit doesn't work. I was just saying don't try to tell me the way i was raised doesn't work, cause it seems to have worked. Am i lucky? No. Im just a pretty normal *** man, raised a normal *** way.


Wait;
Settled?

@Hian
Hold them and talk to them huh? Glad it worked out so well for you lol

@Ronin
Everyone reads some books to figure shit out. Yeah lol, thanks for the help bromie.

Im no rocket scientist, but i can do handful of shit they cant do either. From not staying inside studying. So to me its an even trade. Id rather know the shit i know then some shit about rockets anyway

hahahahahahaha seewhatididther.

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Ronin

Funny how this looks...

Now your father ran away and got beaten and tied up for it, so he wouldn't do it anymore.

You know that kids who get beaten up at home do things like "running away from home". That's not normal behavior.

Let's say a kid "acts up". Than it gets beaten. Than it runs away. Now it gets beaten more. That's classical domestic violence with gradual escalation that ends in the hundreds of kids getting beaten to death each year, in the US.

This is why the state takes kids who get beaten up away from home.

That is why there are laws and that is why your opinion isn't asked of you by the state and the decision, if it's ok or not, is taken from you.

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hian

The part I highlighted here, is the issue everybody seems to have with your post, and the main issue you seem to be misunderstanding - Nobody is claiming it didn't work in your case, they're saying that just because something worked in your case, doesn't mean that it works for other people - and that what you are describing, in terms of statistics and the science regarding child-rearing, indeed doesn't work for most people.

That it worked for you is not an evidence against that, nor good evidence for why such a method for child-rearing should be used.

You also seem to miss the point that even if you think you're a normal guy who was raised a normal way, if that isn't supported by statistics or science, then you're opinion means squat, because that means you are the statistical minority, and hence that you were indeed lucky regardless of what you think.

You find that funny?
I've had a lot of experience with dealing with troubled kids and teenagers, both from the fact that I spendt much time in a troubled environment when I was young, and from my current job - Fun fact, no kid I've met has ever become well-behaved or settled down through the use of violence.
In a lot of cases, their troubled behavior was a direct result of violent parents to begin with.

You cite examples of people tying a kid to a tree and whopping him for running away as if it's a good thing, and that already makes me question your personal integrity, so maybe you didn't come off as lucky as you seem to think you did.

So he didn't run away again - But it still begs the question why he tried to run away to begin with? Another good question is whether it's better for a kid to not run away because he is afraid of getting beaten up, or if it's better for a kid to not run away because he has no need to, or because he understands that it won't make things better.

The two last alternatives are clearly superior in any case. Regardless, studies still show that it is better for people to learn through self-awareness and empathy, rather than through fear of punishment, which effectively the kind of teaching you enforce by using physical punishment.
It stunts the childs emotional growth in most cases, and enforces a personal moral that's based on "I shouldn't do this because I get punished", rather than "I shouldn't do this because it's bad/hurts others".
Surely you see the problem of that kind of thinking?

Yeah because it's better to be uneducated on the stuff you talk about which experts in respective fields have spendt large amount of time and effort on studying and writing books about, rather than going out, reading those books, and making a qualified opinion.

You're making a great argument here mister...

Maybe, but that isn't the argument here : The argument isn't you know stuff experts don't - The argument is who knows best about field X(in this case, child rearing), you or experts, or people who bothered to spend time reading the material written by said experts? The answer though, is self-evident.

So no, it isn't an even trade.

This is you going :
"Well, I was raised with violence, and I worked out fine, therefore everything everbody else says against such child-rearing are wrong."

I hope you're willing to challenge that opinion in case you ever plan on having(or already have) children - both for yours, and your childrens sake.

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Xenonight2

That's interesting you would reassert that, especially when I already predicted that you would say that and created a whole counterargument for it which you neglect to give any legitimate reason for why your assertion is true and mine is false. Didn't I already address the whole point of why the idea of "hey, it works for me, so don't tell me what to do," is a position that is essentially one of ignorance?

Here, I can reqoute what I said about that.

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illgamez

Lol am I the only dude who likes Daniel Tosh

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girtrute

Kids these days dont know what a real beating is. I remember my mom was like indiana jones with the belt, and it wasnt cause she wanted to be,and well u just hope your dad didnt have to get the belt out.
What that girl got was pretty much proper from my standard, Though the judge gave here belt over pirateing, i could understand if its religious family it would be somethign very bad, since it is stealing,and hes just trying to install moral behavior,since immorals behavior always has soemthing negative behind it.
You cannot judge how someone will come out through any method of training them as a child, "theres a expectation of what will," wich may have majority on its side." But there will always be that person who rebels,golden child,and the one that dont care.
Theres no clear method, but obviously physical punishment works the best. Its used on more then just children to get people to act right.

Raiyne

http://www.onrpg.com/boards/188259-7/#post2666527 (Judge William Adams beats daughter for using the internet*possible triggers*NSFW)

Educate yourself, please.

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girtrute

Educate myself off a childs thoughts? Dont throw up people that shouldnt have even had children from the beginning as a excuse for belt being the wrong method.

You can see what no belts did for most the new generation just look at all the spoiled kids living at home with their parents complaining at wallstreet becouse they want them to wipe their ***.

My only problem with the belt on this girl is that shes 16 years old and belts are pretty much ineffective by then.
I wouldnt say belt your kids till theyre full grown, you only belt them till theyre old enough to comprehend the bad consenquences that comes out of acting bad.

But none the less, time outs are not only physical punishment but also mental, timeouts obviously dont work on adults, when tried in prison only severe bad results came of it.
Its all up to the brain of the child and how it decides to transform during puberty thats realy gonna tell,its quite possible that no method would work for some children.

Raiyne

http://www.cyc-net.org/cyc-online/cy...-corporal.html
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;101/4/723
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...983895,00.html
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements...f%20discipline

Jesus Christ! How offensive and stubborn you sound. Dismissive and ignorant.

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hian

Raiyne, you'd be better of ignoring Girtrute, which has a history of waltzing into threads and repeating the same fallacies and ignorant statements which has already been dealt with, refuted and discarded earlier on in the thread - And for several other reasons, but they'll probably become apparent if your exchange goes on.

If Girtrute isn't willing to read the exhanges already made in the thread before posting, Girtrute obviously has no respect for the posters here, nor any inclination of making an actual contribution to the thread, and therefore has no right to expect anyone to take his/her posts seriously either in any case.

And to repeat raiyne, please educate yourself Girtrute. Even with the differences in children, we are one species and therefore share a large amount of genetical dispositions, and we do have statistics and science centered around child-rearing, supported by a large amount of data covering a long period of time - So to second guess that, and go "I don't need no education on the topic - all children are different - you can't know what methods work best in general DERP DERP DERP", is completely wrong, completely ignorant, and completely inane.

Bear in mind though, I do agree with you, that some children might grow up in such a way that they are cannot be "fixed" or educated with conventional methods. Some cannot be helped at all, be it by brain defects, disease, or large amounts of trauma - But that's besides the point, because that is not what we're discussing here. The discussion is whether or not violence used to discipline children is good or bad, in general.
Science and statistics atm, suggests that it is bad, deal with it.

But again, you're not going to bother reading any of the information provided in this thread, nor challenge your opinion by going out and doing some fact-checking on the relevant fields, so you're probably just going to stay ignorant, and just keep on repeating the same BS as loud as you can to convince yourself you're right.

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