Burningthought

Considering half your post was biased bullshit itself, it sounds like you played for a good 10 minutes and decided you knew everything about it. Lern2plai

kthxbai.

Hizumi

An easy mmo is not a fun one. It was just from my perspective. The panthers thing was just an example. I tried the blood elf and the undead. I party'd with my friends late at night. These are just my opinions. No need to attack me for them dude xD. I wasn't on a private server either. I just pointed out the negative things, no need to get offended. I didn't get into Wow because I was bored, and I hate soloing. Especially on multi-player games where it's not really supposed to be D.I.Y. I didn't mean to be harsh, I just wanted people to see these are all just opinions and perspectives. Sorry if I did complain, but I did my best to list things ^^. If I had some time, I'd try Wow again. Oh and buddy, I said they were on their low-level characters. (Looks like i said accounts but I meant characters)

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sKin

My point is it's pretty obvious you haven't played the game. The "negative" points you attempted to make don't even apply to WoW in any way shape or form - and I hate it when the biased spread false information. I told my WoW friend over XFire to read your post, and he laughed too. Try the free trial, you might like it.

I never said it does. (Although WoW is accessible and tons of fun at the same time. Pretty rare for an MMORPG.)

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Hizumi

Um.. I played the trial, you know, the one where you cant trade to friends? When it was over, I thought the trial limited me to fun, thats why I was bored. I'd probably keep playing, but I never get the chance to buy prepay cards. Some of those negative points are just from my PoV.

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elazulblack

IMO FFXI kicks WoW's ass, especially if you have someone to play with.

But of course, most people look at FFXI's grind and are like "LIEK OMFGZ LOLOLOL DAT R 2 H4RD 4 MEH LOLOL =)))))))))".

So the community's not very strong atm.

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Shiftfallout

Grind is never hard, its just boring. Every game has grind to an extent, so it really depends on how they cover up or make the grind enjoyable.. if there is a lack of enjoyment or something to work towards, then its pointless.

Thats why they have mobs drop loot, to give the grind some sort of fun, though we are kind of numb to that now.

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Giangsta

which game has more overall players? i'm just asking not implying bigger is better

thanks

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gobsied

No Shift, he's right.
FFXI grind is hard to master, it's fast and fun when you get it right.
The game's grind is definately more engaging that WoW, sorry but it really is.

Playing in good parties is always fun, understanding your char and your personal play style, then matching it to those around you to create synergy is key.

If you don't have that then the grinding is ALWAYS going to be hard and you'll end up making coments like corasked.

Don't get me wrong I think WoW is fun, and awesome and a worthy experience. But FFXI is just a more solid game.

You say
"Final Fantasy tried and failed on a few concepts, but it over all was a decent game, though hardly as solid in design as WoW. FF seemed confused at what it wanted to be at times and the forced partying was its biggest down fall in my opinion."

Utter bull. FFXI has tried and succeeded in a myriad of concepts. The design is definately more solid than WoW. There are two classes MADE for solo, and can solo very quickly, and additional jobs that can solo, duo and trio. More and more solo endgame content is available. The class system is more sensibly balanced Paladins aren't main healers =/. A year ago the game was made for the core player but everything coming in now is geared to shorter and shorter times needed to complete.

Getting to end game is an epic adventure. From AF quests, to special rare/ex items, to crafting to making friends, bsing around. Getting to 75 the first time is an experience that's just not seen in any other game.

There is no way WoW is more solid that FFXI.

Then what are the implications of your rhetorical questions. Because you must know the answer.

WoW has more, it's easier. Capping is so dang easy WoW is like one big lan party. Which is great.

We Lan Party WoW at my uni after hours. The game feels like a custom WC3 map and that's what was very popular around the time it popped. Doens't matter how crappy the game was, the idea of playing as your fav WC3 character was phenomenal.

That jump started it and what made it really take off was the advertising.

Serebii

WoW for sure.

Damn, people! Startin' to make me want FFXI again. But i'm almost 41 in WoW and pushin' on. Got in a party today and ran around STV doing stuff. ;D I dunno why, but I get all "I miss FFXI, I want to quit WoW!" and then I play it because i'm always like "Ehh, i'll just get on to see what everyone's up to" and I end up running around doin' junk and having fun... ;o I'm tempted to use my OWN Free 30 Day Trial thing just to see if I REALLY want to switch AGAIN. Never got past level 6 or 7 lol... All this talk about how in-depth FFXI can be has got me all itchy!

On the other hand I still love WoW... Just too fun to let go! ;( And please, 3 hours of grind in WoW got me quite a few bars at level 40, so I don't think it would take just ONE HOUR to get to level 3...

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Shiftfallout

It's not utter bull that FFXI also failed in concepts.

sigh... I part of my degree covers game design. Since graduating I have been active in both game design and film. Thats my passion as well as in a sense, profession. That said, I cant expect you to see things from a "professional" or even design "educated" point of view. Over the internet there are circles of game designers and developers who dicuss such things, where bias takes a back seat and actual game design, like science, is neutrally and matter of factually, discussed.

Here is one article's explanation, something I couldn't have said better.
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"Steve Danuser has an excellent post, discussing why Blizzard succeeded with WoW. His conclusion, that it all comes down to Blizzard’s ability to execute, is in my opinion dead on. Ask any venture capitalist: ideas are cheap. Success comes down to the ability to actually put those ideas into action. Surprisingly, few game companies have that. Most end up attempting to do to much, and execute too little of it well.

Brian has taken umbrage at this statement, bizarrely (and in my opinion, very mistakenly). His pathway to Blizzard’s success is simple. Spend a shitload of money. Have a huge name. Have a huge fanbase. Ship when ‘it’s done’. Easy as pie. And all a factor in their success.

The problem, of course, is that it’s only part of the story, and in my opinion, it’s a small part. Consider the Sims Online, SWG, FFXI, and even to a lesser extent EQ2. All of them spent a shitload of money. All of them had huge names. All of them had huge fanbases. None of them reached WoW’s level of success (although depending on whose numbers you believe, FFXI may have gotten into the same league). Despite what Brian later says here, WoW’s circumstances aren’t particularly unique. Blizzard just took advantage of them better.

The one thing that WoW did that the others didn’t do, according to Brian’s list, is to ship when its done. And while shipping a well-polished, bug-free product is something I will always evangelize, it’s certainly not the only answer here. Even if the four products I had listed had shipped completely bug-free and stable, their growth would have been capped by some very fundamental game design decisions which limited their success. Are you trying to tell me that TSO just needed a bit more time to turn their pizza-making core gameplay into a 10M subscriber game? Don’t be silly.

The problem I have with this line of reasoning in general is that it seems to fundamentally disregard the importance of good design decisions. I’m always surprised when people are unwilling to acknowledge that World of Warcraft is fundamentally an extremely good and exceptionally well-designed game. If you disregard this, you are not only disregarding business reality which favors and mandates good design, you are also showing a severe disconnect with the core market. And the worst thing that a designer can do is to accumulate disdain for the player, and what the player values and finds fun.

If you disregard this, you’re just making excuses. “We can’t compete because we’re not Blizzard!” is nothing more than a cry for the whambulance. Take a look at the next big things: Kart Rider. Habbo Hotel. Club Penguin. Maple Story. All were made for peanuts. All had no name recognition. All had no existing fanbase. Most were shipped with a very limited amount of content. All of them enjoyed very strong success anyway - some claim that their numbers kick the shit out of WoW, and while that conclusion can be debated, they are definitely matching (and usually obliterating) the other four games I named.

And none of those four games are EQ/WoW clones.

To me, the answer is simple: vision, design, and execution. Figure out what your game is really about, focus on a thoughtful, well-rounded design supporting that vision, prune out features that don’t do so, and be sure that, no matter what, your execution ensures that you deliver on that vision better than your competitors.

Does money help? Do Blizzard, EA and Microsoft all have an advantage? Sure. But in terms of spending massive wads of cash and trading on name recognition for blockbuster success - WoW is the anomaly, not the norm"

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Nuff said.

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