Marineking

Oh yes, it's such a bad thing that we live longer then any time in the history of the world, instead of being killed off at 30 or 40 by plagues and diseases that we scoff at today. It's such a bad thing that people in industrial countries have everything they could want, instead of barely subsisting off of bread and rice. It's such a bad thing that we have nuclear power which, while it can be used for bad, can also be used to easily power the entire world without any pollution at all. If these are the things you consider bad, then I really have little else to say to you.

And as a sidenote, without going off-topic too much, Global Warming (Or at least the Co2 argument) is bullshit. The only thing that keeps it going are the legions of ignorant environmentalists who don't want to lose their one great hold on the political system.

And as Norrin said, you should not scoff at technology until you've spent ten or so years living alone, without any help from the outside world, in a hostile wilderness. Then, when you're starving because you lack modern agricultural advancements; sick from a myriad of diseases because you lack modern medicinal advancements; and at complete mercy of the elements without a modern shelter - then, and only then, are you entitled to scoff at technology like it's nothing.

And I suggest you look up the living conditions for your average man back in those ancient times of yours. The farther back you go, the more miserable it becomes for all but a select few. It only gets worse when organized religion comes into the picture. The ability to live completely "at peace with nature" is a modern advancement.

Arguing with creationists is more for outsiders benefit then actually to try and convert a creationist. As you say, they are idiots, but sadly there are masses of people who would follow them because they don't feel like thinking. At least we can reach some of them by making our arguments against creationism well-known.

EDIT: @ Moonlight...

What? The science of faith is the "working hands?" I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Look up the meanings of Science and Faith and then try to argue that they are compatible.

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Str1der

Ya, because arguing with a staunch atheist and evolutionist is all the better, right? People see the word "God" or "Miracle" and automatically throw it out of the picture. You replace those words with "Alien" and "Technology" and all of a sudden we have a lot more believers. If you want to believe that in the vastness of space there is another race of creatures more advanced than us in technology, with no proof to back it up might I add, why the hell can't I believe that a loving creator blessed us with life some thousands of years ago? My beliefs require the use of one other of those words that you don't like to hear: Faith.

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Marineking

And your personal beliefs, if they stayed just with you, would be fine. I'm not arguing that we need to force people not to believe in religion. I, personally, believe that faith in that form is bad to a rational mind, but that is another discussion and, really, I don't care if you believe what you do. It doesn't effect me. Except, of course, when creationists try to come into public schools funded by my taxes and try to brainwash my future children into thinking something that goes against every law of reality in existence, and then proceed to tell them that it's "science." That, I do have a problem with, and I will argue against it with all my power, as little as that is.

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Cloud13

First, if you want creationists to keep it to themselves, why don't you think that way about evolutionists?

Next, what about the children of religious family who are brainwashed into believing that we started out as primordial soup?

And I have to add, do you think that every law of physics could just happen to be so perfect and lawful by chance?

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Norrin Radd

Are they even worth reaching?

If I see a group of women gossiping about the latest episode of Big Brother, I don't feel overcome with an urge to go tell them to watch The Wire. They're evidently not deserving of it, and have made their choice.

I apply that to creationists.

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Str1der

Oh, so you mean just like how the atheists have entered our public schools and shoved their shit about the THEORY of Evolution down our throats? Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Might I add that they no longer teach Creationism in public schools? I have nothing against someone being curious and learning about the theory of evolution. I don't even mind if it's taught in schools. What I do mind is when it's taught as a fact and as the only right answer to where we came from.

I personally don't want evolutionists coming in to public schools funded by my taxes and try to brainwash my future children into thinking something that has no solid, physical, or rational proof, and then proceed to tell them that it's "the truth", and nothing else is. That, I do have a problem with, and I will argue against it with all my power.

You want to teach the Theory of Evolution in our schools? Fine. Teach the Theory of Creationism along side it. Just make sure our students know that Evolution has no proof, and is just what it is: a theory.

Of course they do! Isn't it such a great coincidence that all of the cornerstones of our universe happened to fall exactly in to place, peice by piece, without any mistakes? I mean, what would happen if just one of those fell apart, or never formed properly? You know, like a clock? If one piece is out of order, the whole thing stops working, right? Seems to me like there must have been a Master Clockmaker somewhere that did all this with a purpose. Hmmm....

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Xenonight2

1. Gods and Miracles are unprovable, by definition.

2. Aliens are provable. Currently, though, it's silly to believe in them, but it's silly to totally deny the possibility. There is no evidence or proof, but there is strong circumstantial things such as how likely life is to occur compared to how many stars there are in the Universe, and then you see that there is a good chance that somewhere in the Universe, there is probably at least a low bacteria form of life.

Also, the reason Miracle and Technology are at odds is because Technology is explainable. Someone has to invent it, and therefore there is as scientific explanation. Miracles, like I said before, are unexplainable by definition.

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Str1der

1. God and miracles are unproven? Look around you. Miracles happen every day which baffle scientists. Medical phenomenons occur all the time that never have an explanation. Why is it that a person on their death bed with cancer miraculously gets better? Did their body all of a sudden learn the means to defeating cancer? Just looking at the Earth and the Universe is enough proof to a God of any sorts. Nothing happens by chance, and neither did the creation of our whole being.

2. Aliens are not provable. They are probable. Two completely different words. There is nothing to say that alien life exists in our universe. Sure, it seems like in the vast expansion of space there must be another form of life somewhere, right? Currently to our knowledge, there isn't and there just might never be any.

Denying the existance of God but believing in the chance of aliens is hypocrisy. Neither can be physically proven in their own rights, while one has graced our planet for over two thousand years and has been written down in to a book. It doesn't take a genius to see the difference. :x

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Marineking

@ Cloud and Strider

The Theory of Evolution should be taught in science class because it is exactly that - science. It has mountains of proof going for it, and not just irrational beliefs and whims. This is the argument all religionists bring forth. "Oh, you don't want us shoving our bullshit down kids throats? Well what about your bullshit?" The problem is that "fact" is not just an arbitrary word that can be stamped on anything. If you can find proof for your theory, then fine, teach it as a theory. Personally, I hate public schools on principle. I think all schools should be private, and then you could have your kid learn whatever you wish. But as it stands, we do not have that yet.

I have no problem with religious ideas being taught to kids - as long as they are taught in optional religious classes. Religion in religion class, and science in science class. How is that so hard to comprehend?

EDIT: Proof of miracles? Show me. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's proof.

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Cloud13

The Theory of Evolution is taught like fact, which it is not. For every "proof" of it, I can show you something that blows a hole in it.

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