I did not write this, but i am just sharing it with you:


*Note well* Please read the entire first post before posting, to avoid looking like an idiot when I refer you back to my original post to refute your claim. I understand that this post contains complex and dense language and ideas that may be difficult to understand. If you don't not understand, please PM me and I will do what I can to answer any questions. This may require some knowledge of logic and philosophy. Also, inflammatory posts and well as posts of admiration and worship are not necessary in the thread, as they distract from the discussion at hand.

I am attempting to disprove God, defined as the perfect being. Omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevelent, all loving, etc. I will provide a full definition if I find it necessary. This is not necessarily the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God as described in the various religious texts.

Let us begin the discussion with the ontological argument.
1.God exists in understanding.

2.God might have existed in reality. (God is a possible object)

3.If something exists in understanding and might have existed in reality, then it might have been greater than it really is.

4.Suppose God exists only in understanding.

5.God might have been greater than he really is.

6.God is a being of which no greater being can be conceived

7.A being of which no greater being can be conceived might have been greater than he really is.

8.It is false that God exists only in understanding.

9.God exists in reality as well as in understanding.

Some notes for understanding:
Possible thing refers to any object that is logically possible. Logical possibilities are those things that are not self-contradictory. For example an object that is simultaneously a square and a circle is not a possible object because the definition of square contradicts the definition of circle.
St Anslem concedes that impossible objects cannot exist in reality, only as concepts, or only in the understanding.

There are many criticisms against this argument, and the strongest maybe the fact that the argument as it stands is circular, as it presupposes its conclusion as one of the premises. It's a long confusing explanation and if you are really curious I could email it to you.

My criticism, however, is against premise 2 that presupposes that God is a possible object. Consider the ontological argument with the words "an island greater than which none can be conceived" in place of God. It appears we can prove that such an island really exists, but we know that such an island does not exist. If we pretend the flaw is not with the invalid structure of the argument we can find a flaw with premises 2. Is "an island greater than which none can be conceived" a possible object? Well consider such an island. How large would such an island be (let us assume, for the sake of simplification, that largeness is a great-making quality)? Once be gin to imagine how large such an island would be, immediately a larger one appears in our mind. Given that it is logically possible for an island to be infinitely large, it seems we cannot arrive at an "an island greater than which none can be conceived" because we could continue to conceive of greater islands. Here is my first argument.

1. Object X* has one or more measurable, great-making qualities.

2. The object "an X greater than which none can be conceived" has the greatest possible values for these measurable qualities.

3. However, as it is possible for numbers to continue to infinity, it would be possible for these values to continue to infinity.

4. Therefore the object "an X greater than which none can be conceived" is not a possible object.

*Object X is a possible object.

Let us take St Anslem's definition of God as given in premise 6.
1. Beings have one or more measurable, great-making qualities.

2. God has the greatest possible values for these measurable qualities.

3. However, as it is possible for numbers to continue to infinity, it would be possible for these values to continue to infinity.

4. Therefore God is not a possible object.

Perhaps one could object to premise 2, that God's attributes are not measurable. Certainly not in reality, but hypothetically God has attributes that can be measured. Considered omnipotence, or "all-powerful". Power is a measurable attribute, as one could take two people and determine from them that one is more powerful than the other. Since power is measurable, what would it mean to be "all powerful" or "perfectly powerful"? It certainly wouldn't mean "Infinitely powerful" since the former two imply an upper limit while the latter implies limitless.


Try and prove me wrong.

Maby God believes in a God? It would get lonely being the ultimate power with no one to talk to or look at you.

I'm not religious at all but that would be pretty weird. They say he hasn't communicated directly to one of us in a while. And if he has, that person would be considered crazy if he say he talked to God himself. And crazier if he brought up confusing ideas that didn't relate to Christianity at all. God does have the right to change his mind, right?

Before anyone starts a whole "you're an atheist" spin, like they did the whole 'insightful' thread, read this quote.

I am attempting to disprove God, defined as the perfect being. Omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevelent, all loving, etc. I will provide a full definition if I find it necessary. This is not necessarily the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God as described in the various religious texts.

As if Judeism, Christianity and Muslim are the only religions.

Ugh.. my brain hurts trying to grasp that, i need to upgrade my RAM... and a nap.

Perhaps one could object to premise 2, that God's attributes are not measurable. Certainly not in reality, but hypothetically God has attributes that can be measured. Considered omnipotence, or "all-powerful". Power is a measurable attribute, as one could take two people and determine from them that one is more powerful than the other. Since power is measurable, what would it mean to be "all powerful" or "perfectly powerful"? It certainly wouldn't mean "Infinitely powerful" since the former two imply an upper limit while the latter implies limitless.


Maybe there are exceptions, or its just not described correctly? I mean, if the scripture of a certain religion has survived through so many centuries, surely it has been chaged etc. Like how alot of the original text in the bile was lost in translation? =] Just an opinion.

Wow. It took a while for me to grasp it. I'd like to see arguements against this.

ok do heaven and hell now!

what party of "supernatural" dont u understand????

god is supernatural, so he can do ANYTHING

were mere humans, we cant comepletely grasp his power

so some people are in a state of disbelief, just cause they cant see him

ive proved that he exists about dozens of times on this forum already, everyone ignores it

SO STOP TRYING TO PROVE HE DOESENT EXIST

Thank you.

One important point we need to understand in the first place is that the existence of God cannot be proved in the same way you prove the existence of a physical object. This is simply because God is not a physical object. Any physical object is subject to your five senses. In simple terms, you can see, hear, smell, touch or taste a physical object. This is not possible in the case of God, as He (swt) is a Transcendental Being [existing on a level beyond our sensual perception].

There are people who argue that the only form of knowledge available to humans is experiential knowledge or experimental knowledge, gained primarily by the use of outer senses. This led to the belief that human beings are constituted in such a way that the knowledge of reality is always unavailable to them; and so it resulted in a renewal of attention to the everyday world of appearances. The knowledge of here and now became the only object of human knowledge and concern. Thus from this point of view, the project of seeking knowledge of reality behind appearances must be abandoned, because it is beyond the scope of human understanding.

Now think: Can’t there be a way of “being” [existing], that is not susceptible of being perceived by the limited capabilities of humans through their defective senses?

I hope that the implications of the two expressions I used above [‘limited capabilities’ and ‘defective senses’] are evident to any thinking person. The claim that something does not exist, because you haven’t seen or heard it, etc. is untenable. When we consider the limitations of our sensual perception and of our reasoning powers, it is not necessary that we understand everything. We can speak meaningfully about everything simply on the basis of our perception. So to speak of “proof” with regard to a Transcendental Being becomes irrelevant.

What we can do is to point out facts which lead to a constant and inescapable awareness of the presence of God. It is clear that logically we cannot rule out the possibility of more things existing than can be perceived by our senses or can be arrived at by our reasoning. As for Man, there are two dimensions to his existence: One of matter and the other of spirit.

Reduced merely to the level of material existence, Man becomes a machine, or a mere animal at best. But think of a machine that rebels against being a machine; or of an animal that refuses to be an animal. That is what man is! What is it that makes him rebellious, angry, disappointed, frightened or hopeful? What is his dimension that gives him his imagination, his artistic genius, his creative urge? Why does he have nightmares and sweet dreams?

It is not matter that does it; evidently it is his spirit that makes him so different from animals. So to base our knowledge of the world and our philosophy of life simply on the material side of our existence to the complete exclusion of the spiritual dimension, is undoubtedly faulty. The strength of Islam as a philosophy and as a way of life is that it does not separate man’s material life from spiritual life, and that it seeks a balance between the two dimensions of human existence.

We should understand that human spirit is a reality incommensurable with material realities, and that it owes its existence only to God. Thus dear brother, if we ponder over the phenomena of the world around us and over the complexities of our own existence, we are bound to conclude that God is the Reality behind all appearances. The Holy Qur’an says in Surah 2, verse 164, the meaning of the following:

*{Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- [Here] indeed are signs for a people that are wise.}*

That is to say the external signs we see in the universe should necessarily lead a wise person to the Ultimate Reality behind it all. And that is how we arrive at the realization that Allah Almighty is the Moving Power behind all life and all existence.

IRREFUTABLE PHYSICAL PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS:

juan diego's cloak has the image of mary on it. it was the days before printers

St. francis xavier's body not decaying.

Ugh.. my brain hurts trying to grasp that, i need to upgrade my RAM... and a nap.



Maybe there are exceptions, or its just not described correctly? I mean, if the scripture of a certain religion has survived through so many centuries, surely it has been chaged etc. Like how alot of the original text in the bile was lost in translation? =] Just an opinion.

Nothing is lost in translation. The Christian religion removes any Gnostic terms from the Bible - things they deem unfit for holy literature. As for Judaism and Islam, people think that they have no relation to each other, but in fact they do. Both record some of the same events, and both rest on a premise of Jesus 'who cured the ill and rose the dead - who also preeched of the almighty him/herself'.

What's the Pope for?

If you don't tell me. I will fight you.

Just see when you die.

IRREFUTABLE PHYSICAL PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS:

guadalupe hidalgo's cloak has the image of mary on it. it was the days before printers

St. francis xavier's body not decaying.
1: You don't need printers to produce images. Try painting sometime. You'll be amazed what you can do.

2: It did decay, simply at a slower rate then most bodies do. But it did decay.

even still, its hard to stop a body from decaying withour being frozen.

heres a quote from a website:

Juan Diego gathered up the miraculous blossoms in his mantle and hurried off to complete his mission. Once again before the Bishop, he let the roses spill out before him. To the wonder of all assembled, a perfect image of La Virgen of Guadalupe was revealed emblazoned on Juan Diego's cloak.
Juan Diego's mantle, carefully preserved in the new Basilica, has been subjected to extensive analysis over the years. Experts have authenticated the fabric as dating to the 16th century, but have been unable to determine the type of pigment from which the image was rendered. It seems doubtful that in the Colonial era in Mexico human hands were capable of creating a portrait of its exquisite nature. It is even doubtful it can be done in Mexico today. Most wonderous of all, after 465 years, the image of the Virgen de Guadalupe remains clearly imprinted on the miraculous cloak without visible signs of deterioration.

explain that

even still, its hard to stop a body from decaying withour being frozen.

heres a quote from a website:

Juan Diego gathered up the miraculous blossoms in his mantle and hurried off to complete his mission. Once again before the Bishop, he let the roses spill out before him. To the wonder of all assembled, a perfect image of La Virgen of Guadalupe was revealed emblazoned on Juan Diego's cloak.
Juan Diego's mantle, carefully preserved in the new Basilica, has been subjected to extensive analysis over the years. Experts have authenticated the fabric as dating to the 16th century, but have been unable to determine the type of pigment from which the image was rendered. It seems doubtful that in the Colonial era in Mexico human hands were capable of creating a portrait of its exquisite nature. It is even doubtful it can be done in Mexico today. Most wonderous of all, after 465 years, the image of the Virgen de Guadalupe remains clearly imprinted on the miraculous cloak without visible signs of deterioration.

explain thatA fluke. A one in one thousand possibility of accidental sewing or weathering of the fabric. Lucky Mr. Diego happened to get his hands on it.

even still, its hard to stop a body from decaying withour being frozen.

heres a quote from a website:

Juan Diego gathered up the miraculous blossoms in his mantle and hurried off to complete his mission. Once again before the Bishop, he let the roses spill out before him. To the wonder of all assembled, a perfect image of La Virgen of Guadalupe was revealed emblazoned on Juan Diego's cloak.
Juan Diego's mantle, carefully preserved in the new Basilica, has been subjected to extensive analysis over the years. Experts have authenticated the fabric as dating to the 16th century, but have been unable to determine the type of pigment from which the image was rendered. It seems doubtful that in the Colonial era in Mexico human hands were capable of creating a portrait of its exquisite nature. It is even doubtful it can be done in Mexico today. Most wonderous of all, after 465 years, the image of the Virgen de Guadalupe remains clearly imprinted on the miraculous cloak without visible signs of deterioration.

explain that

What web site. And do you have pictures.

look it up on google images

So far, zaku, all your posts contain no evidence to support your claim.

Nothing is lost in translation. The Christian religion removes any Gnostic terms from the Bible - things they deem unfit for holy literature. As for Judaism and Islam, people think that they have no relation to each other, but in fact they do. Both record some of the same events, and both rest on a premise of Jesus 'who cured the ill and rose the dead - who also preeched of the almighty him/herself'.

I stand corrected. =]

what party of "supernatural" dont u understand????

god is supernatural, so he can do ANYTHING

were mere humans, we cant comepletely grasp his power

so some people are in a state of disbelief, just cause they cant see him

ive proved that he exists about dozens of times on this forum already, everyone ignores it

SO STOP TRYING TO PROVE HE DOESENT EXIST

Thank you.

OH MY GOD. HOW F***ING OLD ARE YOU KID?

You haved proved nothing.


QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK

explain that

Evidence pl0x.

OH MY GOD. HOW F***ING OLD ARE YOU KID?

You haved proved nothing.

its funny how theres people that go "ooh good doesent exist" , then a few seconds later thay go "oh my god!"

even still, its hard to stop a body from decaying withour being frozen.

heres a quote from a website:

Juan Diego gathered up the miraculous blossoms in his mantle and hurried off to complete his mission. Once again before the Bishop, he let the roses spill out before him. To the wonder of all assembled, a perfect image of La Virgen of Guadalupe was revealed emblazoned on Juan Diego's cloak.
Juan Diego's mantle, carefully preserved in the new Basilica, has been subjected to extensive analysis over the years. Experts have authenticated the fabric as dating to the 16th century, but have been unable to determine the type of pigment from which the image was rendered. It seems doubtful that in the Colonial era in Mexico human hands were capable of creating a portrait of its exquisite nature. It is even doubtful it can be done in Mexico today. Most wonderous of all, after 465 years, the image of the Virgen de Guadalupe remains clearly imprinted on the miraculous cloak without visible signs of deterioration.

explain that


There goes the word which completely turned your argument into nothing. Ta da.

Rayine, i love you quack quack quack thing lol xD

Oh by the way. To those who believe in god, they do not believe that Nature exist or in order words. Random does not exist, luck does not exist.

its funny how theres people that go "ooh good doesent exist" , then a few seconds later thay go "oh my god!"

That's a common saying used by anyone. It does not concern the "God" in any way you look at it. It's simply a saying. Maybe think a bit before trying to debate?

That's a common saying used by anyone. It does not concern the "God" in any way you look at it. It's simply a saying. Maybe think a bit before trying to debate?

well why do some atheists celebrate christmas then?

Oh by the way. To those who believe in god, they do not believe that Nature exist or in order words. Random does not exist, luck does not exist.

im sorry that doesent make any sense. i know luck does not exist though

its funny how theres people that go "ooh good doesent exist" , then a few seconds later thay go "oh my god!"

Are you serious? You're using that to argue with me? "Oh my God" is a common phrase used to express emotions from frustration to shock, and no where did i say i did not believe in God. I do infact believe in God, but I'm not devoted.

Zaku, religion is mainly based on belief. You can believe whatever you want, and no one is going to stop you. However, you can't get everyone to believe that God exists, so don't bother with it.

Are you serious? You're using that to argue with me? "Oh my God" is a figure of speech, no where did i say i did not believe in God. I do infact believe in God, but I'm not devoted.
If you ignore him, the pain might go away. >:

well why do some atheists celebrate christmas then?



Well, celebrating Xmas does not show any relation in God exist or not. It's simply become such a big day that everyone wants to be happy on that day. It has no relation about god exist or not. It's more like does Santa exist or not.

m sorry that doesent make any sense. i know luck does not exist though

To the God's believers. Everything is planned by the "God". that is why, luck and such thing as Nature does not exist. Nature = Random. Nature is not determined by anything. it simply happens with no reasons.

Please! THINK BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN.

Well, celebrating Xmas does not show any relation in God exist or not. It's simply become such a big day that everyone wants to be happy on that day. It has no relation about god exist or not. It's more like does Santa exist or not.

Please! THINK BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN.
Santa owns God anyway. It's not like God hands out presents every Christmas to little children.

Santa owns God anyway. It's not like God hands out presents every Christmas to little children.

Lol. I'm mailing to papa Santa this year for a new puppy =P:D

Lol. I'm mailing to papa Santa this year for a new puppy =P:D
Why have a puppy when you can have me. ;D

I'm 2x the cuteness and fun.

Why have a puppy when you can have me. ;D

I'm 2x the cuteness and fun.

I have 3 puppies at home. one named Pochi, Michi and Kuchi. xD It's 2 male and a female of the same kind. I need one more female to balance it over =P And nooooo my puppies are cuter !!! They obey to my orders and sleep with me ^^ and not, perverts like u won't be sleeping with me!! bleuh..

(( Enough off-topic, let's get back on track))

By the way Zaku. No onr can possibly prove God's existence. They can only assum by logics.

When logics applies, God does not exist. However, when faith applies, God might exist depending what faith you have. In any case, it's futile to prove either side to be right or wrong. God is simply something you cannot prove to exist with the entire univers History. If we're able to prove God exist. Then THAT "God" is no more God since it's no longer "omni".

if you guys are frustrated with my religious posts, why respond?

im really laughing right now, seeing as you "science" kids dont believe in god but believe in santa, who has even less proof of existance than god.

Well, celebrating Xmas does not show any relation in God exist or not. It has no relation about god exist or not. It's more like does Santa exist or not.

well im christian, and i dont celebrate honnukah, do i? and, its CHRISTmas. keyword CHRIST.

"It's simply become such a big day that everyone wants to be happy on that day."

it seems like that in america becuase most people in america is christian/

you cant exactly PROVE that god exists, except for those two proofs that i stated earlier. you can show that god exists by logical reasoning though. its no coincidence that all of our body parts work together to make a fully functional human being.

if you guys are frustrated with my religious posts, why respond?

im really laughing right now, seeing as you "science" kids dont believe in god but believe in santa, who has even less proof of existance than god.


I respond because I don't like kids who force religion onto other people. Wow, now you think we believe in Santa.


"It's simply become such a big day that everyone wants to be happy on that day."

it seems like that in america becuase most people in america is christian/

Don't be naive.

maybe not you, but other kids said they believed in santa.

im not forcing my religion, im just stating facts.


wow, now i know how saints felt. i hope you guys dont stone me =(

F**k man, that's really gayed up. I think he's just spouting random crap.

maybe not you, but other kids said they believed in santa.

im not forcing my religion, im just stating facts.


wow, now i know how jesus felt
I can believe who I want to believe in, and stop calling us Science kid. I'm about to flame the crap out of you for how bad wordingly bad word you sound. There is no facts about God. There is no facts about religion. Things could show up to seem like it's proving the bible. What if someone set it up back then? It could all be a hoax. You don't know how Jesus felt unless you personally crucified yourself. You just offended your own savior. You really have some mental issues, kid, because nothing you say is right. In fact, most stuff you say makes you look worse. No one is agreeing with you. I would bet 10$ that even a priest wouldn't agree with you.


Edit - Lmao you changed Jesus to Saints. Please get out of General Section before everyone hates you. No on agrees with your "facts", which are just opinions. Thanks.

Don't be naive.

oh wait u live in singapore. i guess you dont have commercials all the time pestering u for christmas sales. lucky

maybe not you, but other kids said they believed in santa.

Lol. I'm mailing to papa Santa this year for a new puppy =P

You really think they believe in Santa? Now that, is funny.

im not forcing my religion, im just stating facts.

What facts? You've not supported your claims with any evidence at all.

wow, now i know how jesus felt

Except you aren't capable of curing blindness with your bare hands or other misc miracles.

oh wait u live in singapore. i guess you dont have commercials all the time pestering u for christmas sales. lucky

And that proves... what? We don't really get commercials about Christmas sales but there exist here. -_-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Batsu/1158726770789.jpg


LOL JESUS!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/risingpowers/96485237.jpg

I can believe who I want to believe in, and stop calling us Science kid. I'm about to flame the crap out of you for how bad wordingly bad word you sound. There is no facts about God. There is no facts about religion. Things could show up to seem like it's proving the bible. What if someone set it up back then? It could all be a hoax. You don't know how Jesus felt unless you personally crucified yourself. You just offended your own savior. You really have some mental issues, kid, because nothing you say is right. In fact, most stuff you say makes you look worse. No one is agreeing with you. I would bet 10$ that even a priest wouldn't agree with you.


Edit - Lmao you changed Jesus to Saints. Please get out of General Section before everyone hates you. No on agrees with your "facts", which are just opinions. Thanks.

loki, i changes it to saints before u gave ur post, i didnt think you guys would get it.


there gotta be a rule against making threads on the unexistance or existance of god or christ, because it just starts endless threads.

and god is probably happy with me right now

loki, i changes it to saints before u gave ur post, i didnt think you guys would get it.


there gotta be a rule against making threads on the unexistance or existance of god or christ, because it just starts endless threads.

and god is probably happy with me right now
You changed it because you were wrong. Also stating what God feels is blasphemy. Once again you messed with your own religion. Man you need to stop defending something that you need to leave put. Leave your thoughts to yourself...

Look, Zaku, just drop it. Think what you want to think, and let others do their own thinking. You haven't given facts, but just weird things that happen.

Drop it. Or I'll go all Chuck Norris on someone's ass.

Look, Zaku, just drop it. Think what you want to think, and let others do their own thinking. You haven't given facts, but just weird things that happen.

Drop it. Or I'll go all Chuck Norris on someone's ass.
Yeah, Chuck Norris totally owns God. He is the King of the Universe, and Dave Chappelle is his Royal Jester, Angelina Jolie is his queen, and the antagonist evil power is Tom Cruise.

Whoever said Christmas has no relation to Religion. I'm pretty sure Saint Nick was what started it. Saints are related, so all you non-believers go away, you get no christmas presents! XO

Drop it. Or I'll go all Chuck Norris on someone's ass.

You gotta wait for Jester to finish the BJ.

After i see Chris Angels "Mind Freak" I believe in anything:stare:

I've never seen such a closed minded ignorant such as Zalu. *thumb up*

Now now, let's get to the facts,

Santa Claus was in fact, a real person. If oyu go back to the origin of this name. It came form Saint Nicholas which is knowns for his generous gift to the poor. You didnt know that right? HAH now go back to your corner.

oh wait u live in singapore. i guess you dont have commercials all the time pestering u for christmas sales. lucky

Sorry, I can report for you being indirecly racist over a person who lives outside of your country. What's bad living in Singapor? it's still better than North America who's filled with trashed out kids like you who think he's always right. You're totally worng about Singapor lacking of Xmas commercials. If you do not know about one country, better shut the hell up before you get IP banned from the forum.

im not forcing my religion, im just stating facts.

You have not stated any fact so far. You've been doing what we call " Bullshitting"

if you guys are frustrated with my religious posts, why respond?

im really laughing right now, seeing as you "science" kids dont believe in god but believe in santa, who has even less proof of existance than god.

We are frustrated at how you force your religious opinion on others like Rayine said just now.

We are laughing at how stupid of you believing we believe in the fairytale-liek Santa Claus who fly around xmas day. Guess you lack what we call, Sarcasm.

well im christian, and i dont celebrate honnukah, do i? and, its CHRISTmas. keyword CHRIST.

Word, what does a word hold in the existence of God? Are you trying to say that your god is simply a word? HAH lol. Anyway, what key word? The word is CHRISTMAS. I bet you don't understand where I'm going so I'll guide you by my own personnal thinking.

I don't actually celebrate Xmas nor does any non-christian people celebrating Xmas. It's due that Around the Xmas time, the entire world goes on vacation ( not because it's CHRIST doing, think before you post about this btw) and since it's almost the end of a year, people tend to gather together to have fun. It's not actually a celebration about Christ. Oh by the way, people are more and more refering Christmas as Xmas. it's turning slowly so those Religious stuckheads won't be whinning about that and that.



it seems like that in america becuase most people in america is christian

Woo!! Ignorat quote of the day!! Wrong. America is MULTI-NATIONAL.

you cant exactly PROVE that god exists, except for those two proofs that i stated earlier.

When, where and how?

you can show that god exists by logical reasoning though. its no coincidence that all of our body parts work together to make a fully functional human being.

If God is the exception of being the only being that has no creator, I would say Human being is another exception of Nature's manipulation.

Whoever said Christmas has no relation to Religion. I'm pretty sure Saint Nick was what started it.

Christmas holds less and less any religious meaning up to this ages. It's no longer a day we celebrate because it's Christian's day. It's because we get presents!!!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Batsu/god.gif

Rofl the earth was made by training a skill:3

Christmas has plenty of relations to religion. It was a Pagan holiday, where the people of that religion would beat their wives, and get drunk. The males would give each other gifts and then have gay orgies. But then Christians came and were like 'ZOMG FAGZ' and took away the holiday from the Pagans then tried to affiliate it with Jesus for Christians, and Santa for non-Christians or children without a common religion.

Yay for Icy *Cheerleads.*

I
C
Y, Go Icy, Go Icy. *Spins pom poms around.*

Anyway. Christmas also has the word Chris in it. So I guess the name Chris is holy? My brother's name is Chris, so I guess I'll treat him like Jesus. (I disown him though, cause he's a furry. :()

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Batsu/god.gif

Damn man, that picture is ownage.

Yay for Icy *Cheerleads.*

I
C
Y, Go Icy, Go Icy. *Spins pom poms around.*

Anyway. Christmas also has the word Chris in it. So I guess the name Chris is holy? My brother's name is Chris, so I guess I'll treat him like Jesus. (I disown him though, cause he's a furry. :()

Oh noes!! Your brother going to be crusified around april!!! OH MY GAWDDD ( now, that is not God =P )

Oh noes!! Your brother going to be crusified around april!!! OH MY GAWDDD ( now, that is not God =P )
Pfft I don't mind.

AS LONG AS I'M WITH YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKAY gotta stop flirting with any female poster on this forum. (Call me on AIM or MSN or something, kay? ;D)

That pic is funny. I bet he's on a private server though. Lol.

Lmfao, Kyosumaru I love your pictures, please put more, ha ha. Oh by the way, this thread was pointless, you can't prove or disprove God's exsistance.

Well your the only girl ive seen on this forum(besides Arri).Wierd or am i slow?:3

Well your the only girl ive seen on this forum(besides Arri).Wierd or am i slow?:3
Well there is.... Let's just say Icy and Arri for now. o_o

Yeah, this thread is pretty nulll. With 3 Ls.

Rofl plus some guys trying to be girls(wtf).Ive seen some1 on this forum saying he loves being girl characters in games just to look at himself.Wierd?Definitely:3

(Ps.Wtf Icy is a girl!?:stare:)

AS LONG AS I'M WITH YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKAY gotta stop flirting with any female poster on this forum. (Call me on AIM or MSN or something, kay? ;D)




Nono, no Cyb3r s3x

Nono, no Cyb3r s3x
Aww come on. You know you want it on AIM. I swear I'm not a 46 year old OKAY I think it's time this thread needed to be locked.

THREAD CLOSED!!!
Zaku got nailed down =P

Look, God may not be real and I have my own Thought of how life and the world was crafted:

Earth and the Universe is formed from an giant planet Exploding, the suns are the broken peices of the core Stars are sparks from the planet.

The planets are parts of the planet what broke off, but earth is the only planet that kept it's atmosphere.

Monkeys were the inhabitants of the planet before the universe, and When the planet exploded, the monkies took life on the ball called Earth, and over the years evolved into Human.

God is an excuse made from the monkies so we wouldn't know about their previous lives.

I do beleive in god, but I have doubts.

Look, God may not be real and I have my own Thought of how life and the world was crafted:

Earth and the Universe is formed from an giant planet Exploding, the suns are the broken peices of the core Stars are sparks from the planet.

The planets are parts of the planet what broke off, but earth is the only planet that kept it's atmosphere.

Monkeys were the inhabitants of the planet before the universe, and When the planet exploded, the monkies took life on the ball called Earth, and over the years evolved into Human.

God is an excuse made from the monkies so we wouldn't know about their previous lives.

I do beleive in god, but I have doubts.


thread closed...smart one...


THREAD CLOSED!!!

After i see Chris Angels "Mind Freak" I believe in anything:stare:

ur thinking david blaine. criss angel even admits before his show starts that what he does is fake. i have NO CLUE how blaine does his tricks...

st nick DID exist, but i doubt hes gonna give u ne presents cause, well, hes dead...

i wasnt being racist to singaporeans, i was just stating something about the american businesses commercializing christmas and making a trillion christmas commercials. u gotta admit, its pretty annoying

yes, someone please close this thread, i call a truce, lets all wait to die and lets see who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.

im officially leaving this thread *hears a billion applauses*

everyones life will be so much easier now that i leaving the thread =)

st nick DID exist, but i doubt hes gonna give u ne presents cause, well, hes dead...
I don't think that anyone DOESNT KNOW ABOUT THAT MISTER OBVIOUS.


i wasnt being racist to singaporeans, i was just stating something about the american businesses commercializing christmas and making a trillion christmas commercials. u gotta admit, its pretty annoying

Just how much you know about singapor? NOTHING. How do you know they don't have any americain Cm running on their cable? How do you know? How do you know there's no trillions of xmas CM running? how do you know? When you know nothing. it's ( Sorry, i'm gonna say this at least once) stfu or gtfo.


yes, someone please close this thread, i call a truce, lets all wait to die and lets see who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.

Oh no, it's not reallya truce. You were OBVIOUSLY THE WRONG ONE by forcing your religious beliefs into another person.

ALRIGHT LET THIS THREAD DIE!!

IT IS OFFICIALLY CLOSED, DON'T LET ME SEE ANYONE POSTING FURTHER MSG.

God is everything, god is anything, god is the fabric of space and time, and the fabric of all that has been, is, and will be, he is the death, he is the life, he is the hatred, he is the love, he cannot be refer as he or she... but as a entity, it is a god, all powerful. Why cannot we prove his existence? Because god is everything, I am god, you are good, we all god, because he flows within us as he flows within everything, he controls nothing yet he controls what he wants, we pray to it, and we get no reply, we pray to it and we get a blessing, mana leaks for a dead pope's tome, god, or just altitude... a fragment of proof will convince none, for only death can prove anything...

That’s my religion I consider myself christen but really it’s my own religion... any ways, you cannot prove that god doesn’t exist because how can you prove that there is more than one universe? Parallel, "membranes" maybe each universe is a single membrane the fabric of reality? Who knows? Again only death can tell.

Ps: i have been writeing this since page 2 i wont just not post this... lol

That was a well thought out argument, I'll definitely give the writer that. However, in so many words, it still recycles the same argument thats been used forever: God can't exist because *insert logic*. The thing with God, or anything otherworldly in general, is that His existence can't be proved or disproved through any conventional/logical means.

Why does someone always come along and turn my threads into wank-fests?

Seriously, if you are not going to post something constructive, go fuck yourself.

the suns are the broken peices of the core Stars are sparks from the planet.


Suns and stars are the same thing.

God can neither be proved nor disproved, as proof denies faith, and without faith, God is nothing.

The existence of God is down to faith, and any proof or disproof of God's existence based on logical arguments is inherently flawed, as quantizing such things as "greatness" is a gross oversimplification.

And as regards to your "island greater..." thing, I present the following counter:

Greatness in the sense referred to by St Anslem is "a lack of imperfectness". Therefore, God's "imperfectness" is equal to 0, therefore God has an absolut lack of imperfectness and so is perfect and no greater being than God can be conceived.

What if some other omnipitant being has more greatness than God?

http://image.donanimhaber.com/image.php/upfiles/smiley/locked.gif

Due to everything