Saw this on Facepunch studios

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q237/Syragon-/soldiersonce0.jpg

God dammit I hate Bush. So fucking, fucking much.

*Sigh* That made me want to cry.

...Huh? Why's he so special? There are other children that have had their parents taken from them by the war. Likewise, there have been many parents that have had their children taken from them by the same war. Realizing that, I can't feel sympathy for him alone. :-/

All I can say is, "Grow bigger, get older, kill Bush".

he's not special. Just think of it as a symbol for all the other people who had people taken from them as a result to the war.

"Grow bigger, get older, kill Bush".

Words of a wise man.

That's sad, but it's also abstract so it doesn't affect me much except for 'poor kid and his family.'

Hate bush, hate Bush, hate Bush. Chanting that along with your fellow bandwagoneers won't change a god damn thing.

to the people who hate bush: He's off office in ten months. be happy.

anyways, this is so sad D:
But I hate to say: We will know this child's careerwhen he grows up

Hate bush, hate Bush, hate Bush. Chanting that along with your fellow bandwagoneers won't change a god damn thing.

Negged.

(You guys sea what I just did?)

Hate bush, hate Bush, hate Bush. Chanting that along with your fellow bandwagoneers won't change a god damn thing.

Best. Damn. Comment.

EVAR!

EDIT: But yeah, this is really sad. Poor kid.

God I hate this kinda stuff... ;(

I almost laughed thinking about people's responses to something that has become normal; that being, people getting upset over someone dieing who they don't even know. I've seen plenty that can be said to be sadder than this, but that would only be my opinion.

I cried...

Not really, but the picture is indeed epic, in a good way. They should make a statue and put it outside the whitehouse so bush can stare at it, and commit suicide.

And stop acting like you give a shit, because unless you know someone who died in Iraq, you don't feel the pain.

I almost laughed thinking about people's responses to something that has become normal; that being, people getting upset over someone dieing who they don't even know. I've seen plenty that can be said to be sadder than this, but that would only be my opinion.


That's called sympathy. Humans have it. It's what makes us human.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_JjCu_PpH8dY/R3zHKhefS9I/AAAAAAAAHSo/-CRzHPUV3Z8/s1600-h/triton+002.jpg
This is the saddest picture ever. This baby died after being born prematurely.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_JjCu_PpH8dY/R3zHKhefS9I/AAAAAAAAHSo/-CRzHPUV3Z8/s1600-h/triton+002.jpg
This is the saddest picture ever. This baby died after being born prematurely.

Must you show me these things!? :(

Greed has a heart too.

That's called sympathy. Humans have it. It's what makes us human.

Sympathy is something I cannot express or understand. My emotions are controlled by my apathy. I also find it humorous that you use the term human, because it has become quite a joke by people I know that I have no emotions (and sometimes not human because of it). But do not let my twisted mind interfere with what you think is and isn't. I'll take my seat in the back and just observe the world as I always do.

why hate bush...u guys forget 9/11?
middle east is a fuked up place with a bunch of fuked up ppl that will " kill themselfs" to kill you. bush is the fukin man imo(lol?) i'm sad because we still havent gotten into iran...those bastards are bad. if we take out our troops you can rest assured al qaeda and taliban will once again take control of these countrys and in the future will for sure attack us again. yea we have lost a few good men but the price is definitely worth it.

why hate bush...u guys forget 9/11?
middle east is a fuked up place with a bunch of fuked up ppl that will " kill themselfs" to kill you. bush is the fukin man imo(lol?) i'm sad because we still havent gotten into iran...those bastards are bad. if we take out our troops you can rest assured al qaeda and taliban will once again take control of these countrys and in the future will for sure attack us again. yea we have lost a few good men but the price is definitely worth it.

Yea the Middle East is just a suicidal place right? It's just filled with crazy Arabs and their ALalalah.

Learn history nublet.

I think the pic of a dog lying next to his dead owner was sadder.

Yea the Middle East is just a suicidal place right? It's just filled with crazy Arabs and their ALalalah.

Learn history nublet.

it kinda is...

yea i could care less of their history.
i do care how they they kill themselfs to kill amercians
i also do care bout how they attacked usa like a bunch of pos cowards they are...so yea bush is the man

i leave u to learn about their history...
cuz about their history i could give 2 craps

it kinda is...

yea i could care less of their history.
i do care how they they kill themselfs to kill amercians
i also do care bout how they attacked usa like a bunch of pos cowards they are...so yea bush is the man

i leave u to learn about their history...
cuz about their history i could give 2 craps

Ignorance is bliss.

Stupidity is contagious.

om nom nom nom

why hate bush...u guys forget 9/11?
middle east is a fuked up place with a bunch of fuked up ppl that will " kill themselfs" to kill you. bush is the fukin man imo(lol?) i'm sad because we still havent gotten into iran...those bastards are bad. if we take out our troops you can rest assured al qaeda and taliban will once again take control of these countrys and in the future will for sure attack us again. yea we have lost a few good men but the price is definitely worth it.

Stop being so goddamn ignorant and grow up, please.

Sympathy is something I cannot express or understand. My emotions are controlled by my apathy. I also find it humorous that you use the term human, because it has become quite a joke by people I know that I have no emotions (and sometimes not human because of it). But do not let my twisted mind interfere with what you think is and isn't. I'll take my seat in the back and just observe the world as I always do.

Wow you are so emotionless and cool... not.

i cant see why is that saddest than any typical picture of a starving african child.
http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/images/darfur-starving-girl-2004-IRIN%20Claire%20McEvoy-thumb.jpg

im sorry for the kid,but i must say that im not sorry at all for the soldier in Iraq.
a war is not just mass bombing from the distance,and casualties happen. at least he was a proffesional soldier and knew what he was there for. in iraq have died uncountable civilians.and thats far more sad.

Whats the big deal? what about the other people dieing,just because this kid is crying doesn't make it any worse.

I think the pic of a dog lying next to his dead owner was sadder.

Agreed.

That one jerked a tear.

Stop being so goddamn ignorant and grow up, please.





i could say the same to you..but seeing that you from singapore means very very very little to me if anything at all on what u have to say on this issue. im 23 years old dude i saw the towers go down from the roof in my building and im ignorant? lol you are probably one of those ppl that think our own government brought the towers down. go join saddam dude o i forgot we pwned his ass and riddled his sons wit bullet holes.

hate all u want usa and bush ftw ..and mad love to all those "americans" that have lost loved ones because of these pos cowards.

bombs over baghdad!
-XBgXBvI8a0

Meh,I'm neutral in all of this.It's 10 months until his term is over right?A lot can happen in 10 months y'know.The war isn't affecting me any,so I'm cool.I do at times feel sympathy because my cousin is in the war.And some associates I know are going into the war.The war will be done.I hope the first objective of the new president is to roll the troops the hell outta there,and I think everyone agrees on me on that.

P.S. Outkast ftw

i could say the same to you..but seeing that you from singapore means very very very little to me if anything at all on what u have to say on this issue. im 23 years old dude i saw the towers go down from the roof in my building and im ignorant? lol you are probably one of those ppl that think our own government brought the towers down. go join saddam dude o i forgot we pwned his ass and riddled his sons wit bullet holes.

hate all u want usa and bush ftw ..and mad love to all those "americans" that have lost loved ones because of these pos cowards.

bombs over baghdad!
-XBgXBvI8a0

This is one of the funniest posts I've ever read.

There's a point where ignorance and stupidity cross a line and I think "omg this can't be real, is this person serious?"

When Abyssmal Guilt argues stuff like this, at least he seems to sort of know what he's talking about, and gets me super pissed off at him, but this isn't like that.

It's like, hmm, someone's senile old farmer grandfather who's basically a good guy but occasionally makes racist comments about ie. them damn Jews trying to poison us with bagels (ok that was stupid, but I can't think of anything else lol, you get the idea). It's funny.

*pats on head*

All the same, I have to say that you should get off this forum, and not come back, if only for the sake of the rest of us trying to have proper debates and discussions. You don't belong here.

When Abyssmal Guilt argues stuff like this, at least he seems to sort of know what he's talking about, and gets me super pissed off at him, but this isn't like that.

I'm not arguing for Bush. I'm arguing against naivety.

This is one of the funniest posts I've ever read.

There's a point where ignorance and stupidity cross a line and I think "omg this can't be real, is this person serious?"

When Abyssmal Guilt argues stuff like this, at least he seems to sort of know what he's talking about, and gets me super pissed off at him, but this isn't like that.

It's like, hmm, someone's senile old farmer grandfather who's basically a good guy but occasionally makes racist comments about ie. them damn Jews trying to poison us with bagels (ok that was stupid, but I can't think of anything else lol, you get the idea). It's funny.

*pats on head*

All the same, I have to say that you should get off this forum, and not come back, if only for the sake of the rest of us trying to have proper debates and discussions. You don't belong here.

I agree with you totally. But you know what the sad part is. death07's post was basically a carbon copy of the usual 9/11 answer that you see on every tv show, news show, or forum. It's almost as if they have been brainwashed by their government to think exactly what they want them to.

I am not a conspiracy theory type of guy, but I bet that there are VERY few people that know what actually happened with 9/11. That crap you hear on CNN isn't even news so don't believe a word you see on that channel. News is more accurate on the Colbert Report or Daily Show. LOL

EDIT:
Forgot to add, that in the grand picture of tragic events. 9/11 is like a hiccup. If you lived in another country watching your babies starve to death in front of you while the rest of your family gets wiped out in some "ethnic cleansing" type of slaughter... 9/11 wouldn't even be on the damn radar, you probably would just brush it off as what happens on "Tuesday".

I agree with you totally. But you know what the sad part is. death07's post was basically a carbon copy of the usual 9/11 answer that you see on every tv show, news show, or forum. It's almost as if they have been brainwashed by their government to think exactly what they want them to.

I am not a conspiracy theory type of guy, but I bet that there are VERY few people that know what actually happened with 9/11. That crap you hear on CNN isn't even news so don't believe a word you see on that channel. News is more accurate on the Colbert Report or Daily Show. LOL

Colbert Report and Daily Show are huge jokes too. I can imagine the people that watch that garbage are intellectually lazy students.(edit:If they take it in as actual news) They don't tell you news at all, they merely parody news reporting. People that watch it suck it up like it is news and relay it as brainwashed as anyone that watches the regular news shows.

Forgot to add, that in the grand picture of tragic events. 9/11 is like a hiccup. If you lived in another country watching your babies starve to death in front of you while the rest of your family gets wiped out in some "ethnic cleansing" type of slaughter... 9/11 wouldn't even be on the damn radar, you probably would just brush it off as what happens on "Tuesday".That's the biggest pile of shit since Death07's posts. Are you kidding me? Do you comprehend what went on during 9/11? Do you realize the repercussions of 9/11? It still effects people to this day. It didn't stop the deaths on the day the towers collapsed. People were still dying.

Colbert Report and Daily Show are huge jokes too. I can imagine the people that watch that garbage are intellectually lazy students. They don't tell you news at all, they merely parody news reporting. People that watch it suck it up like it is news and relay it as brainwashed as anyone that watches the regular news shows.

Which is exactly why I used those shows in comparison with CNN. They are a Joke!

You would be amazed at how easily you can change the meaning of a video with some editing and a voice over.

My father left me when i was born and i watched my stepfather,who i loved,get shot right before my own eyes.I lived.

This kind of shit happens everywhere,everyday.Yes poor kid.But i bet,if there wasn't a photo or Bush-Hate,he'd be just another unknown victim.

hey Darc, this is totally unrelated, but I just noticed... it's spelt "Leprechauns". :)

sorry, just caught my grammar and spelling nazi eye.

Unless if it was a pun on the word "con". As in you got conned by lepreconmen, that would be kinda witty. :hmm:

I cried...

Not really, but the picture is indeed epic, in a good way. They should make a statue and put it outside the whitehouse so bush can stare at it, and commit suicide.

And stop acting like you give a shit, because unless you know someone who died in Iraq, you don't feel the pain.

Im sure we all can relate when someone close dies.

Asshole.

That's the biggest pile of shit since Death07's posts. Are you kidding me? Do you comprehend what went on during 9/11? Do you realize the repercussions of 9/11? It still effects people to this day. It didn't stop the deaths on the day the towers collapsed. People were still dying.

Don't take me wrong here. 9/11 is tragic. I feel sorry for anyone affected by it. I am only trying to point out that in the world's history of death/murder/war/injustice/etc there are much worse things that have happened, and are happening right now. Just because they are not televised doesn't mean it isn't as tragic.

It's probably even worse down in Iraq.

hey Darc, this is totally unrelated, but I just noticed... it's spelt "Leprechauns". :)

sorry, just caught my grammar and spelling nazi eye.

Unless if it was a pun on the word "con". As in you got conned by lepreconmen, that would be kinda witty. :hmm:

Oh.I see.


I'll change it O_o.Now,i better not post nothing more before sandman warns me for doing something everyone else was doing and for a stupid retarded reason.For like,the 4th time since i joined onrpg.

he's not special. Just think of it as a symbol for all the other people who had people taken from them as a result to the war.

Thank you for explaining what others do not get. Its the meaning, not the surface. You do feel emotions, especially those who lost, or dealt with a grave situation revolving around the life of a person.

i would feel more upset about this picture if i hadnt already been dsensitized by hundreds if not thousands of similar images.

as children we are all taught that we should learn from our mistakes.

yet we live in a world where the cost of mistakes is infinitely high and yet still bought by money.

God dammit I hate Bush. So fucking, fucking much.

I can't tell you how much ignorant comments like this bother me. Get a grip.

First of all, everyone who keeps saying that they 'hate Bush' should just shutup. Yeah, he's fucked up a lot, and I hate him as well, but when something like this happens the first thing that comes to your mind shouldn't be Bush. It should be about the valiant efforts of the people overseas, and the people who do give their lives so that we can still live in a free America.

And stop acting like you give a shit, because unless you know someone who died in Iraq, you don't feel the pain.

You know what's worse than knowing someone that you loved and cared about died? Watching that person die slowly right in front of you. Few years back, my brother attempted suicide, and was taken to the hospital to have his stomach pumped, but the doctor's were afraid they were gonna be too late. I literally watched my brother in pain and bawled my eyes out, and as delirious as he was, all he could do was watch me and cry the same. The only words he would say were "Please don't cry." Do you even KNOW how fucking much that plays on your mind? I am nearly crying just typing it out. All I can say is that I thank God for saving his life, because if that wasn't divine intervention, then I don't know what is.

And lastly, death07, shut. the. fuck. up! Are you so damned ignorant that you would think that all of Iraq and Iran are just suicidal bombers who hate America? Do you even know how horrible life is over there right now, and even before? It's not Iran's fault, nor is it any country's fault, it was the terrorists fault and they're the ones that should be, in our own eyes, killed.
Oh, and also, just because someone lives in another country doesn't mean they can't have an opinion on this matter. Your word is not law. You are not the marshall of OnRPG.

I cried more in a videogame. I mean I was almost in tears at the end of World In Conflict.

Should I be worried?

I won't take part in the bush discussion..

Oh, and the one who said he didn't give a crap about that kid, well.. How you feel if your father was shot in a age of 8? Yes, sympathy is a basic human feeling (unless your a serial killer).

Oh, and death07, your being ignorant. so EVERYONE in Iraq are terrorist and evil-doers? That's just narrow minded. Some people down there might be extremists, but not all. There are NORMAL people down there, families. And you are saying to bomb the shit out of them because of something a group of sad, different and screwed up people did?

I'm glad I don't live in America.

Sad... but nothing special, really...

Think at it this way... every US soldier who dies... there will be 250 iraqs who die... its a fact, and its sad...

Bush aint a problem... hes just doing what he should be doing, dont forget a lot of Americans voted FOR the war, NOT AGAINST the war... Neither in Afghanistan neither in Iraq.... its not Bush's fault, its the Americans and the Senate's fault... Those of them who voted FOR the war...

Remember it... every soldier, 250 iraqians die...

Yea the Middle East is just a suicidal place right? It's just filled with crazy Arabs and their ALalalah.

Learn history nublet.

First of all Greed your wrong cause not all the middle east is a suicadal place.....I was born in the middle east and for 14 years I am staying here. Its a good place to live in. I live in UAE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAE). Not all the middle east is a bad place. And give the Middle east a break.....>_>

middle east is seriously a fucked up place... yeah you will be able to find places like the UAE and Oman and countries like that, which are very modern, but the rest ( Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria etc.) are very fucked up places...

I mean it dosent require an Einstein to see whats wrong with Iraq... Iran isnt that bad, but its still sucky as people cant express them and the fact that women cant say anything without getting a beating is sad...

Syria is actualy alright... but again the religion is controlig the country...

Turkey is also alright... they are just tramping on people's expressions...

So all in all, yes middle east is fucked up... but people in middle east dosent know... why? cause they havent been in the West...

( Im from Middle-east too...)

To me the middle east is a ok place to live in but I hate when people think that they are a bunch of retards which is wrong. It seems bad cause the West never actually been here or they just think by their own ways.....

To me the middle east is a ok place to live in but I hate when people think that they are a bunch of retards which is wrong. It seems bad cause the West never actually been here or they just think by their own ways.....

It's because of the media and the ignorant people who believe them. I honestly think America has a little too much freedom and it's getting stupider by the minute.

It's because of the media and the ignorant people who believe them. I honestly think America has a little too much freedom and it's getting stupider by the minute.

I wouldn't say it is too much freedom. It is really about two things (from a Canadian's perspective). They (US govt) seem to use the media to spin stories. They also use fear to keep people in a state that they are accepting to more obscene (if that is the word) propositions.

For example, CNN is has very good TV ratings. It is not because they are 'first on the scene', or 'accurate and truthful'. CNN is popular because all they show is shit gettin blown up. Majority of people will believe anything they see especially if its action packed!

I notice a big difference in watching Canadian News vs US News. Our news tells us what happened and nothing more. For the most part, it isn't flashy, it isn't like watching an action movie, it's boring really. Then I switch to CNN and it's like I just went to the theater to watch an action flick.

It would be a sad day if Canada had the same brain-washing-flashy-action-news that the US has.

I wouldn't say it is too much freedom. It is really about two things (from a Canadian's perspective). They (US govt) seem to use the media to spin stories. They also use fear to keep people in a state that they are accepting to more obscene (if that is the word) propositions.

For example, CNN is has very good TV ratings. It is not because they are 'first on the scene', or 'accurate and truthful'. CNN is popular because all they show is shit gettin blown up. Majority of people will believe anything they see especially if its action packed!

I notice a big difference in watching Canadian News vs US News. Our news tells us what happened and nothing more. For the most part, it isn't flashy, it isn't like watching an action movie, it's boring really. Then I switch to CNN and it's like I just went to the theater to watch an action flick.

It would be a sad day if Canada had the same brain-washing-flashy-action-news that the US has.

You've got some of it, but it's more about ratings. The government doesn't use the media, the media does it on their own. All they care about is ratings. What brings ratings? Fear and action, as you said. They don't care if they're right or wrong.

To me the middle east is a ok place to live in but I hate when people think that they are a bunch of retards which is wrong. It seems bad cause the West never actually been here or they just think by their own ways.....

the west is basically a bunch of seals sitting in front of their tvs clapping their fins everytime they see a pretty picture.

i have lots of faith i human kind, but not while its enslaved by its own ignorance.


lets all start a revolution!

the west is basically a bunch of seals sitting in front of their tvs clapping their fins everytime they see a pretty picture.

i have lots of faith i human kind, but not while its enslaved by its own ignorance.


lets all start a revolution!

Lol, you talk shit about America constantly as if you know. You don't even live here, you are looking at your tv or reading news articles and getting only sheer negativity. 1% of what happens in the country if that. Now unlike you I'm willing to say that the country I live in (America) isn't perfect. I could look up 10 negative things in your area in under 5 mins.

Lol, you talk shit about America constantly as if you know. You don't even live here, you are looking at your tv or reading news articles and getting only sheer negativity. 1% of what happens in the country if that. Now unlike you I'm willing to say that the country I live in (America) isn't perfect. I could look up 10 negative things in your area in under 5 mins.

I live in America and I see the sheer stupidity of our country just by walking down the street.

Plus he was talking about the West in general. As in EUROPE as well as AMERICA.

And I must say I agree with Deimos.

I live in America and I see the sheer stupidity of our country just by walking down the street.

Plus he was talking about the West in general. As in EUROPE as well as AMERICA.

And I must say I agree with Deimos.

As he should, but he speaks of the west only as being seals in front of the tv clapping as if other cultures don't do the same thing. >_>

Just sick of all of the fucking negativity today everyone's got some shit to say and it's really starting to piss me off. Bitch bitch ****** moan moan moan, why don't you temper your bitching and moaning into actually doing something about it?

And all the encouragement of Deimos' cynical bitching isn't any better than the whining itself.

As he should, but he speaks of the west only as being seals in front of the tv clapping as if other cultures don't do the same thing. >_>

Just sick of all of the fucking negativity today everyone's got some shit to say and it's really starting to piss me off. Bitch bitch ****** moan moan moan, why don't you temper your bitching and moaning into actually doing something about it?

And all the encouragement of Deimos' cynical bitching isn't any better than the whining itself.

Well let's see.. China dominates in trade. Korea dominates in MMORPGs/technological crap. Japan dominates in just about every single piece of technology known to man including mecharobotjumpsuits.

Well let's see.. China dominates in trade. Korea dominates in MMORPGs/technological crap. Japan dominates in just about every single piece of technology known to man including mecharobotjumpsuits.

Well, let's see.. China practically enslaves a large portion of it's population to produce the low priced goods that dominate the international market. Korea... don't even bring that up, not even worth a mention. Japan's economy is going down my friend, they are in an economic slump, they do not dominate in just about every single piece of technology, they dominate in just about every single piece of technology that is used for entertainment.

This is my exact point, people want to look for positive light in other nations of the world but only look at a negative light for America.

This is my exact point, people want to look for positive light in other nations of the world but only look at a negative light for America.

Because people around the world hate America (mainly because of Bush) and would rather make fun of it than admit that it's a pretty good place.

Because people around the world hate America (mainly because of Bush) and would rather make fun of it than admit that it's a pretty good place.

*looks at mountains of homework*
*looks at due dates*


No I think those are just people that haven't grown up here =/

*looks at mountains of homework*
*looks at due dates*


No I think those are just people that haven't grown up here =/

Says the rich kid?

Says the rich kid?
Money won't do my homework now will it?

War is a sad and unfortunate realism that refusing to accept will screw you over. Those men knew what they were fighting for when they signd up to join the army, and they knew damn well what they are getting themselves in to when they are shipped out. Every single one of you "Bush haters" is either too young to honestly have a solid opinion or just a crazed maniac with no grip on what truely is happening in this world.

Yes, it's sad that the boy lost his father. I would be as well if I was in his shoes. But the truth is war will happen. It always has and always will. If we just sit here and do nothing our nation will fall in a very short amount of time, and when it does, I am soooo pointing my finger at every single one of you "Bush haters".

Oh, and the one who said he didn't give a crap about that kid, well.. How you feel if your father was shot in a age of 8? Yes, sympathy is a basic human feeling (unless your a serial killer).



If my father was shot I could give less a crap. In fact I'd hold a ball in memorial of his death. He's a stupid fuck.

If we just sit here and do nothing our nation will fall in a very short amount of time

lol

crazed opinions.

That's sad, but it's also abstract so it doesn't affect me much except for 'poor kid and his family.'

you know Xeno I was kind of thinking the same thing.

Poor little guy.. I wanna cry for him. he's holding it back so hard. Keep fighting.

Bush wasn't a bad president he just took some wrong turns on his decisions and I personally believe he shouldve pulled out of Iraq a bit ago. He had the right idea going in but when they found no WOMD's and they made Iraq a democracy they shouldve left.

War is a sad and unfortunate realism that refusing to accept will screw you over. Those men knew what they were fighting for when they signd up to join the army, and they knew damn well what they are getting themselves in to when they are shipped out. Every single one of you "Bush haters" is either too young to honestly have a solid opinion or just a crazed maniac with no grip on what truely is happening in this world.

Yes, it's sad that the boy lost his father. I would be as well if I was in his shoes. But the truth is war will happen. It always has and always will. If we just sit here and do nothing our nation will fall in a very short amount of time, and when it does, I am soooo pointing my finger at every single one of you "Bush haters".

Sorry to say, but thats an insane thought...

America will fall? Oh lets look at history ( history, rings any bells?) America blew up Vietnam, America blew up Somalia, America blew up Congo, America blew up Iraq twice, America blew up Afghanistan, America blew up ( together with Israel) Palestina... TO BE CONTINUED...

And you still dare telling us that YOUR country will fall? Well let me ask in another way: How many other countries will fall, before YOUR America will fall? How many more civilian lives should be spared in the ''war against terrorism''?

Lol, you talk shit about America constantly as if you know. You don't even live here, you are looking at your tv or reading news articles and getting only sheer negativity. 1% of what happens in the country if that. Now unlike you I'm willing to say that the country I live in (America) isn't perfect. I could look up 10 negative things in your area in under 5 mins.


Oh you could look up 10 negative things in his area under 5 mins... Go ahead lol... The fact is that by every 5th bad thing you will find about Deimos' country he will find 100 bad things about America... That's a fact... Even though America and England have been participating in a lot of bullshit... America was always crossing the ''line'' a little too much... The Englismen were clever, they didnt cross those lines... which leads me to the point of= The bullshit you hear about America is a result of their own acting

Don't get me wrong... i don't hate Americans, i know a pretty loads of Americans who are the kindest people i know... I think its sad that people around the world is getting frustrated at the Americans....

How's that a sad picture.. and why should we pitty only that one kid though there are millions of kids in worse conditions, and parents dying every second..

Sorry to say, but thats an insane thought...

America will fall? Oh lets look at history ( history, rings any bells?) America blew up Vietnam, America blew up Somalia, America blew up Congo, America blew up Iraq twice, America blew up Afghanistan, America blew up ( together with Israel) Palestina... TO BE CONTINUED...

And you still dare telling us that YOUR country will fall? Well let me ask in another way: How many other countries will fall, before YOUR America will fall? How many more civilian lives should be spared in the ''war against terrorism''?

I think he was saying that if America stopped fighting wars, then we'd fall pretty damned fast. Think about it, if we would never have gotten involved in World War II after the Japenese bombed us, we'd all probably be dead. And that's only one example.


Oh you could look up 10 negative things in his area under 5 mins... Go ahead lol... The fact is that by every 5th bad thing you will find about Deimos' country he will find 100 bad things about America... That's a fact... Even though America and England have been participating in a lot of bullshit... America was always crossing the ''line'' a little too much... The Englismen were clever, they didnt cross those lines... which leads me to the point of= The bullshit you hear about America is a result of their own acting

Don't get me wrong... i don't hate Americans, i know a pretty loads of Americans who are the kindest people i know... I think its sad that people around the world is getting frustrated at the Americans....

Now, excuse me if I get a bit flamy, but don't pull that bullshit. Yes, America has made a lot of bad mistakes in the past, but every other country of the world has fucked up big time at least once, and you can't deny that. America may have fucked up more than other countries, but most other countries don't have as much power as we do. I mean, hell, we've officially been a country for only 400-500 years, and we're already kicking everyone's asses, and that's because we never held back! All those other pussy-shit little countries don't even care about the rest of the world anymore. (France, anyone?)

Every country has its downfall, look at Rome, probably one of the strongest empires, yet they're downfall was not war but economy. America has spent already 1 trillion dollars in this war when they could be spending this at home instead of giving it away for stupid reasons.

COMUNISIUM!! I going to report you all, I hope you all go to jail! D:

Wait.. this ain't the Civil war.. wait, why'd that happen? Wait.. does that relate?

O:

Every country has its downfall, look at Rome, probably one of the strongest empires, yet they're downfall was not war but economy. America has spent already 1 trillion dollars in this war when they could be spending this at home instead of giving it away for stupid reasons.

You do know that nearly every European nation, Japan, and a few other countries are in DEBT to America? You do know that every nation in the world is technically in debt?

Sorry to say, but thats an insane thought...

America will fall? Oh lets look at history ( history, rings any bells?) America blew up Vietnam, America blew up Somalia, America blew up Congo, America blew up Iraq twice, America blew up Afghanistan, America blew up ( together with Israel) Palestina... TO BE CONTINUED...

And you still dare telling us that YOUR country will fall? Well let me ask in another way: How many other countries will fall, before YOUR America will fall? How many more civilian lives should be spared in the ''war against terrorism''?

Call it pride in my country or patriosim, but I would rather see every nation in the world fall before my own. Are you American? From your post I want to say you're not. Do you live in the Middle East? Again, I highly doubt it. So since neither are true, wouldn't you agree that none of this is actually your business? You can have whatever silly little opinion you choose, but at the end of the day your "voice" actually does nothing. Sit here and rant on the internet to people who's minds you will never change.

Bush. Made. Mistakes. Happy? I don't agree with everything that he did in his two terms, but who's to say anyone else would have done better? Unless one of you out there is one of our past President's you will never know what it is they have to deal with, which brings me back to my first statement. It's none of your buisness. You want to insult my President? Just name me your nation and I'll insult your political figurehead. I'm pretty sure I can dig up mountains worth of information on how they are the biggest waste of breath.

I may not be happy with the fact that a liberal President (and most of the Conservative ones too) could enter in to office next term, but I'll damn well respect them for being the President of my country. If you want to piss off the strongest nation in the world, please, be my guest. Had it not been for America, most likely none of you would be able to sit at your computer desk pumping in gallons of soda and cheetohs under your communist governemnt. Scary thought to think that you could have lived that way, eh? Thank America.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif
That is how much debt U.S. has.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif
That is how much debt U.S. has.

Holy crap that's a lot of dough

Now you see how much money they are using for a useless war, instead of using it in the U.S. they spend it overseas with other countries.

Ironic all of the Bush haters tend to be more warmongering than Bush himself, it's media interpretation of a war that makes this one seem so bad. Imagine if the media was like this in WW2. "KILL BUSH." Lawls you guys are pathetic.

I'm not a Bush hater, I'm just against the war, there was no reason for the war, so it was really pointless. We borrowed 10 billion from China for the war.

I used a general term, more speaking to the people on the front page. Seeing the irony between the two. "Marine dies in war." first response : "KILL BUSH!".

I think are more pressing issue is not about Bush, but whether the next president will effectively end the Iraq War on a strong note...

Forget about Bush, he's going to be the past soon enough...

Forget about Bush, he's going to be the past soon enough...

Yeah but after that it's either...
http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/prosperty-thumb.JPG
And it'd be a damn shame if America went the wrong way.

Now you see how much money they are using for a useless war, instead of using it in the U.S. they spend it overseas with other countries.

A lot of people say it's because of Bush's grudge with the Middle East or the oil problem in our country that we started this war, but war's don't only serve one purpose. :-/ They are a source of economic income, so for fuck's sake, we had the perfect opportunity to start a war, and we did.

And I agree with Str1der, if you don't live in America or the Middle East, then you can butt out of our political affairs, ok? You can keep your opinion, but that's all the value it will hold; an opinion.

Agreed, the government makes millions off the war, hopefully after Bush's term we will pick a good president.

Agreed, the government makes millions off the war, hopefully after Bush's term we will pick a good president.

Doubt it, I'm not sure if the primary's are up yet, I haven't been paying attention at ALL, but so far, we're either headed for Barack or Hillary. Hillary has Clinton backing her, so she's most likely gonna be chosen as the Democratic candidate. Not to mention all the airtime she's been getting lately, and the fact she'd be the First First Lady in the White House. I really do hate Hillary though. (my friend says she's evil because she looks like Martha Stewart XD)

Oh well, what am I to do? I can't even vote yet. :-/

Yeah but after that it's either...
http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/prosperty-thumb.JPG
And it'd be a damn shame if America went the wrong way.

Huckabee '08! XD

Meh I'm with Ron Paul.

A lot of people say it's because of Bush's grudge with the Middle East or the oil problem in our country that we started this war, but war's don't only serve one purpose. :-/ They are a source of economic income, so for fuck's sake, we had the perfect opportunity to start a war, and we did.

And I agree with Str1der, if you don't live in America or the Middle East, then you can butt out of our political affairs, ok? You can keep your opinion, but that's all the value it will hold; an opinion.

A war is NOT a source of economic income, where is that income money supposedly coming from?

How ridiculusely dumb is it, to believe that the United states have any more valid cause of interacting in the middle east, than lets say Haiti?

Interestingly there are a lot countries, that are not only connected to these areas by land, but about a sixth as far away from there than the US is, just like the one I live in.
Interestingly also, there are still soldiers from my country stationed in the middle east, but on real humanitarian peace missions in place for years and issued by the the UN. I think that makes it my countries political affairs as well, doesnt it? I cant realy find it a funny issue, how people think that world works.

Saying that the political involvement is ok because of political and economic interests soley, leaving out any humanitarian or strategical connection to those actions is zynical, dumb, shortsighted, its disgracefull.

What are those times we live in?
What will once come of all this?

Even if its just kids messing on a forum, this gets at least me to start thinking...

Well @Str1der, I live in Austria, now please insult my president, my live, the people I know, the army I personaly served in, our state of live, but, I can tell you one thing about yours: Where you see smoke, you are going to find fire and even if most of my knowledge of the USA as i admit, is secondhanded information, (that comes from personaly knowing an endless list of Americans, as well as an endless list of people who have spent more time than just one holiday in the states), your country is this worlds first in any category only by your own claim, that most Americans dont seem to believe very much in themself either; They just dont know better.
Are you one of those, that think, because your politicans are worthless crap, they need to be the same everywhere and anytime else? Well if you find what I am guessing you could find, im fully up to debating if your sugested comparison does this matters seriouseness justice or was just a tasteless stunt.

A war is NOT a source of economic income, where is that income money supposedly coming from?

How ridiculusely dumb is it, to believe that the United states have any more valid cause of interacting in the middle east, than lets say Haiti?

Interestingly there are a lot countries, that are not only connected to these areas by land, but about a sixth as far away from there than the US is, just like the one I live in.
Interestingly also, there are still soldiers from my country stationed in the middle east, but on real humanitarian peace missions in place for years and issued by the the UN. I think that makes it my countries political affairs as well, doesnt it? I cant realy find it a funny issue, how people think that world works.

Saying that the political involvement is ok because of political and economic interests soley, leaving out any humanitarian or strategical connection to those actions is zynical, dumb, shortsighted, its disgracefull.

What are those times we live in?
What will once come of all this?

Even if its just kids messing on a forum, this gets at least me to start thinking...

Well @Str1der, I live in Austria, now please insult my president, my live, the people I know, the army I personaly served in, our state of live, but, I can tell you one thing about yours: Where you see smoke, you are going to find fire and even if most of my knowledge of the USA as i admit, is secondhanded information, (that comes from personaly knowing an endless list of Americans, as well as an endless list of people who have spent more time than just one holiday in the states), your country is this worlds first in any category only by your own claim, that most Americans dont seem to believe very much in themself either; They just dont know better.
Are you one of those, that think, because your politicans are worthless crap, they need to be the same everywhere and anytime else? Well if you find what I am guessing you could find, im fully up to debating if your sugested comparison does this matters seriouseness justice or was just a tasteless stunt.

Woah, buddy, don't have to get so worked up over me. I'm only garbling whatever I hear from my History teacher's really. :)

And besides, Str1der probably only said that because many people target the US as this symbol of extreme prejudiced and hatred, when all the knowledge that they have is secondhand, as you've stated yourself. He was showing that, if he were to look up any informational source that we have here in the US, it would most likely be biased towards our country, for good reason, and it would be the information he relied on in his prejudiced views of your country. I'm not sure if I've written that quite clearly, but you have to give me a break, I'm nearly passing out at the keyboard right now.

I think he was saying that if America stopped fighting wars, then we'd fall pretty damned fast. Think about it, if we would never have gotten involved in World War II after the Japenese bombed us, we'd all probably be dead. And that's only one example.




Now, excuse me if I get a bit flamy, but don't pull that bullshit. Yes, America has made a lot of bad mistakes in the past, but every other country of the world has fucked up big time at least once, and you can't deny that. America may have fucked up more than other countries, but most other countries don't have as much power as we do. I mean, hell, we've officially been a country for only 400-500 years, and we're already kicking everyone's asses, and that's because we never held back! All those other pussy-shit little countries don't even care about the rest of the world anymore. (France, anyone?)

Well for the Japanese part: You guys only entered the war because of your own ass was being bombed. So stop acting like America is Universal Hero... Casue when the Europeans were begging America to help them, they were sitting in Washington and laughing at the Europeans, they couldn't care less...

And for kicking everybody's ass... Oh I see, you are so much kicking everybody's ass that you havn't won the war yet, neither in Iraq neither in Afghanistan... And the propaganda... oh the propaganda... You are still in war with Taleban, the militants in Iraq are killing your American soldiers slowly, and soon the army in Iraq will be gone... And which result that we got? Dont get me wrong, i am very happy that you removed Saddam's power, but as Clever and powerful America was, they didn't have a PLAN B... Which meant that islamic militants are ruining the country, even though America had its oppurtunity.

And no America doesn't care about the world... If they cared about the world they wouldn't go to war, and spent all their money on military. They would start off by raising their support and aid ( I know its the highest in world) to the poor country, insted of killing 600.000 civilian Iraqian...

You do know that nearly every European nation, Japan, and a few other countries are in DEBT to America? You do know that every nation in the world is technically in debt?



Call it pride in my country or patriosim, but I would rather see every nation in the world fall before my own. Are you American? From your post I want to say you're not. Do you live in the Middle East? Again, I highly doubt it. So since neither are true, wouldn't you agree that none of this is actually your business? You can have whatever silly little opinion you choose, but at the end of the day your "voice" actually does nothing. Sit here and rant on the internet to people who's minds you will never change.

Bush. Made. Mistakes. Happy? I don't agree with everything that he did in his two terms, but who's to say anyone else would have done better? Unless one of you out there is one of our past President's you will never know what it is they have to deal with, which brings me back to my first statement. It's none of your buisness. You want to insult my President? Just name me your nation and I'll insult your political figurehead. I'm pretty sure I can dig up mountains worth of information on how they are the biggest waste of breath.

I may not be happy with the fact that a liberal President (and most of the Conservative ones too) could enter in to office next term, but I'll damn well respect them for being the President of my country. If you want to piss off the strongest nation in the world, please, be my guest. Had it not been for America, most likely none of you would be able to sit at your computer desk pumping in gallons of soda and cheetohs under your communist governemnt. Scary thought to think that you could have lived that way, eh? Thank America.

If my voice does nothing, why bother reply my post then? I dont really care if my opinions are secondhanded ( tv, medias, newspapers,studies), there's something called freespeech, and i can say whatever i want, whether you like it or not.

None of it is my business? im from Norway, originaly from Middle east, been living there for some time. It is my business... We live in a global world... Now take a look at it. Until Bush came on the power, every single country in Europe had socialistic governments. Now when Bush entered the power in America, every single nation ( beside some eastern European ones) became Conserva-Liberal governments. So yes, its my business, cause America is an influense all the way. Im not saying its bad. Hell no, the influense from America have made a lot of inprovements in the economy in Europe. I cant deny that. The culture and the way of living have influended us so much here in Europe, that we almost look like the Americans.

And the fact that you live the president simply because he is a president, makes it so naive. I mean would you love your president even though he fucked up your nation, JUST because he was a president? ( Im not talking about Bush).

You see, i have nothing against Patroism/Nationalism. It's a very beautiful thought. But you see, it ain't a beautiful thought when it comes so far as for you:As long is it doesn't happend for my country, then i dont care. What so ever you have the right to be a Patriot, and I'm happy ´that you have found your path....

And power doesn't make killing civilans- alright...

I avoided clicking this ALL week...but I had to today. Goddamn...thats horrible. :(

And all the encouragement of Deimos' cynical bitching isn't any better than the whining itself.

haha.

all im saying is this:

from what ive seen the west is convinced of its own self importance and superiority. the west is convinced that its way of life and moral values are better than anywhere else in the world.

when people speak of mainstream history what they mean is white history. to the western world white history is mainstream by default. but the truth is that being white is also an ethnic grouping same as any other and that white history isnt the default history.

this is the same for lots of other things. democracy isnt the default government. western values and morals arent the default and arent "correct", i mean ho can you have "correct" or "right" morals lol.

im just saying that the west has for a long time been getting used to itself always being right. an example of this would be to ask some people in the street questions like who are terrorists? what is terrorism? what is evil? you know, stuff like that.

im not saying i dont like having economic stability, employment prospects, free (kinda) schooling and all those sweet things. im just saying the west is very good at tooting its own trumpet and thinking that it knows everything by default.

i was just discussing the topic in a lighthearted manner since id already seen a few "i hate bush!!!!" one sentence posts.

America may have fucked up more than other countries, but most other countries don't have as much power as we do. I mean, hell, we've officially been a country for only 400-500 years, and we're already kicking everyone's asses, and that's because we never held back! All those other pussy-shit little countries don't even care about the rest of the world anymore. (France, anyone?)

I may not be happy with the fact that a liberal President (and most of the Conservative ones too) could enter in to office next term, but I'll damn well respect them for being the President of my country. If you want to piss off the strongest nation in the world, please, be my guest. Had it not been for America, most likely none of you would be able to sit at your computer desk pumping in gallons of soda and cheetohs under your communist governemnt. Scary thought to think that you could have lived that way, eh? Thank America

thats the sort of stuff im talking about. people spouting mindless patriotism and flaunting their most excellent empire. its scary that some people still think the values that britain, france, holland, belgium, spain and germany held to be true in 1900 are still true today.

I think the point of this thread is to show how sad wars are, especially for the families supporting their father, husband, brothers, etc.

Calm the fcuk down fools.

I think the point of this thread is to show how sad wars are, especially for the families supporting their father, husband, brothers, etc.

Calm the fcuk down fools.

the point of a thread and its actual conclusion are two very different things here.

the word for 'post' and 'offtopic' practically mean the same thing.

welcome to the fold.

That first picture proves how easily affected people are. In third world countries children lose their parents everyday and we don't really help them out that much.

I think the point of this thread is to show how sad wars are, especially for the families supporting their father, husband, brothers, etc.

Calm the fcuk down fools.


I think that was the most intelligent thing I have read all morning :)

haha.

all im saying is this:

from what ive seen the west is convinced of its own self importance and superiority. the west is convinced that its way of life and moral values are better than anywhere else in the world.


To be honest, I thought that best described the British.

I meant no offence to anyone British here, alright?

To be honest, I thought that best described the British

well that best described the british when brittannia ruled the waves.

you cant really say the same thing now, not without following established stereotypes.

but like the western world in general we do still have a penchant for sticking our noses into other peoples business. guess its something we cant completely grow out of right now.

well that best described the british when brittannia ruled the waves.

you cant really say the same thing now, not without following established stereotypes.

but like the western world in general we do still have a penchant for sticking our noses into other peoples business. guess its something we cant completely grow out of right now.

Well, my apologies for flipping out. I don't agree with this global policy we(Americans) have and the government's desire to get their fingers in everything, playing world police. I'd love to see us go semi-isolationist. We need it, our economy is breaking the laws of gravity and continues to accelerate to the ground. I am just getting a little sick of so much America bashing as if it's the sum of everything you can possibly summon up in your twisted mind as evil.

Well for the Japanese part: You guys only entered the war because of your own ass was being bombed. So stop acting like America is Universal Hero... Casue when the Europeans were begging America to help them, they were sitting in Washington and laughing at the Europeans, they couldn't care less...

And for kicking everybody's ass... Oh I see, you are so much kicking everybody's ass that you havn't won the war yet, neither in Iraq neither in Afghanistan... And the propaganda... oh the propaganda... You are still in war with Taleban, the militants in Iraq are killing your American soldiers slowly, and soon the army in Iraq will be gone... And which result that we got? Dont get me wrong, i am very happy that you removed Saddam's power, but as Clever and powerful America was, they didn't have a PLAN B... Which meant that islamic militants are ruining the country, even though America had its oppurtunity.

And no America doesn't care about the world... If they cared about the world they wouldn't go to war, and spent all their money on military. They would start off by raising their support and aid ( I know its the highest in world) to the poor country, insted of killing 600.000 civilian Iraqian...



If my voice does nothing, why bother reply my post then? I dont really care if my opinions are secondhanded ( tv, medias, newspapers,studies), there's something called freespeech, and i can say whatever i want, whether you like it or not.

None of it is my business? im from Norway, originaly from Middle east, been living there for some time. It is my business... We live in a global world... Now take a look at it. Until Bush came on the power, every single country in Europe had socialistic governments. Now when Bush entered the power in America, every single nation ( beside some eastern European ones) became Conserva-Liberal governments. So yes, its my business, cause America is an influense all the way. Im not saying its bad. Hell no, the influense from America have made a lot of inprovements in the economy in Europe. I cant deny that. The culture and the way of living have influended us so much here in Europe, that we almost look like the Americans.

And the fact that you live the president simply because he is a president, makes it so naive. I mean would you love your president even though he fucked up your nation, JUST because he was a president? ( Im not talking about Bush).

You see, i have nothing against Patroism/Nationalism. It's a very beautiful thought. But you see, it ain't a beautiful thought when it comes so far as for you:As long is it doesn't happend for my country, then i dont care. What so ever you have the right to be a Patriot, and I'm happy ´that you have found your path....

And power doesn't make killing civilans- alright...

You're right, we did only enter the war because we were being bombed. America did not want to fight a war for the sole reason of rushing to the aid of Europe. We were still a developing nation and had never proved our worth in the world untill that time. Heaven forbid wanting to step in to a world swept war for no reason. Being bombed gave us a reason to do so, and how dare you casually throw away the lives that were lost in that attack. How can you type anything along those lines of us not helping Europe. From day one EVERY European has hated America and has never wanted to help it in any way shape or fasion. Why should I rush to the aid of someone that wouldn't do the same for me?

Want to know why we haven't won the war yet? It's because people like you constnatly badger and belittle our nation to the point where we can't. You shove out mindless statements about civilians and all this other crap that puts the nation in a tight spot. Yes, it's a sad thing when innocents lose their lives in a war, but war is war. I don't see any guilt for the loss of all of our friends in family on 9/11. Funny how you seem to pass that part up. It didn't happen to you in your nice little un-involved country, so why should it matter? Why should you even think twice about our loss? The rest of the world expects us to throw away that incident and play nice. That's not how it works, folks.

Well, all I can say to your "America doesn't care about the world" statement, is that America fought for you. You wouldn't exist had it not been for America, so why not show a little gratitude. We're all human. Corrupt people exist in every society, even America. But to say that we should give up our Army and pour money in to another source merely because people like you say so is ridiculous. Clinton did that, and just ask any military person what their view on the Clinton family is like.

Why bother and reply to your post if it means nothing? Merely because I want to. What you say won't effect the life of anyone, but I would prefer trying to set the record straight and telling you the areas where you are wrong. You give our nation no credit. You look at us as a big bully and as a worthless people. Forgive me if I feel no sympothy for European plights. I've met my fair share of Europeans, and no, not all of them are bad. I had a good friend who was British, but not once did he ever slander my nation, and I didn't his.

I didn't say the word love, so try re-reading my post. I said respect. A person of such high importance deserves respect. I may not like them, and my infact extremely disagree with them on every single aspect of their presidency, but that doesn't mean I don't respect them for being my president. People make wrong choices, as did Bush. He lost a lot of my respect over the immigration issue, but as President of the most powerful and influential nation in the world, he deserves a lot of respect.

So you're telling me that if America were one day in trouble you'd be the first to rush to our defense? I highly doubt that.

No, having power doesn't make killing civilians right. It is never "right" but sometimes it's a necessary evil. More lives are often lost if situations involving civilians aren't delt with. And just remember 9/11. Close to 6,000 CIVILIAN lives were lost that day. Heaven forbid you show some remorse for them.

Well, my apologies for flipping out. I don't agree with this global policy we(Americans) have and the government's desire to get their fingers in everything, playing world police. I'd love to see us go semi-isolationist. We need it, our economy is breaking the laws of gravity and continues to accelerate to the ground. I am just getting a little sick of so much America bashing as if it's the sum of everything you can possibly summon up in your twisted mind as evil.

well, not playing at world police doesnt equate to isolationism. thats just going to the other extreme and is in many ways just as ill advised. saying "take the middle ground" is easily said but finding a proper solution is more hard work, i honestly dont know what would be the best option.

as for the seeming worldwide anti-americanism, you only have to look at things very quickly to see why some people (ill informed or not) feel that way. although it must be depressing to constantly have to listen to it.

america, most powerful nation in the world militarily (which doesnt mean the most troops, it means effectiveness and efficiency) and economically ( not as in the fastest growing or bouyant but in terms of how other economies are affected by it)... its common place to gripe at the winner, the guy at the top, any way you look at it america is currently numero uno which is why so many people are complaining and why america is always in the focus.

couple this with american foreign policy which many people see as "im america and i am always right" then thats why america gets victimised on so many fronts.

i wouldnt like it if people kept shitting all over my country and my people, but thats just a side affect of always being involved in every little thing around the globe. its something you gotta expect.

also, perhaps in many cases stereotypically, america embodies many things including capitalism and consumerism, the lust for profit, big business and shitting on the little guy as well as being obsessed with war and guns. these things are believed to be true by some to varying degrees and stereotypes by others to varying degrees. how far people take these things literally along with everything else i said above also shows why so many people are prepared to take an anti-american stance.

i keep saying people meaning the generic population of the world as a whole and also governments, but thats only because it would take ages and lots of space to define 'people' properly.

id be angry if people kept comparing my country to pure evil, but at the end of the day becoming a super defence mode patriot or saying stupid things like "my country can own your pussy country" and all the other dumb things that have been said in this thread, doesnt really help much (this is to everyone, not just abysmal)

i dont hate america, i dont hate americans, i dont think america is the cause of all war, but i do get annoyed when people say things that are overly retarded or go to the other end of the extreme in an argument to make a point.


the fact is "war is hell". but we havent come up with a suitable alternative so far so get set for more killing.

pointing the finger and looking for someone to blame over these things is always going to end in a huge shitstorm, on the internet and in the real world.

From day one EVERY European has hated America and has never wanted to help it in any way shape or fasion.

It's because people like you constnatly badger and belittle our nation to the point where we can't. You shove out mindless statements about civilians and all this other crap that puts the nation in a tight spot.

You wouldn't exist had it not been for America, so why not show a little gratitude.

strider i think you are taking this too personally, and making some pretty rash statements.

well, not playing at world police doesnt equate to isolationism. thats just going to the other extreme and is in many ways just as ill advised. saying "take the middle ground" is easily said but finding a proper solution is more hard work, i honestly dont know what would be the best option.

Semi-isolationism. Hell, the founding fathers said we should never get involved in foreign policy. So much for that.

The other thing Deimos, America puts itself out in the spotlight so you're more apt to see the faults. As for a "little" country, you're not gonna see so much because they are almost insignificant and are hardly paid attention to until the big guy takes up the magnifying glass and has a look. I could draw many parallels.

But to say that we should give up our Army and pour money in to another source merely because people like you say so is ridiculous.America already does this.

America can't and won't win. Let up to the constant bashing and we become weak, be strong headed and we are only gonna be hated more for not "caring".

Semi-isolationism. Hell, the founding fathers said we should never get involved in foreign policy. So much for that.

the founding fathers werent living in a country which had profound social and economical impacts on other societies world-wide.

they took a look at british and french imperialism and thought, sod that.

Want to know why we haven't won the war yet? It's because people like you constnatly badger and belittle our nation to the point where we can't.

First of, dont excuse the military incompetence in Iraq. It is a fact, that wars are usualy won in the country where they take place, not at a dubious home-front. The responsibility for wining lies in those hands who do the job.

Secondly, noone in europe owns you anything, we might ow your grandfathers the respect we have always given them, but you? Nothing.
Also demanding respect is unchivalrous.

Thirdly this respect you can neither inheriate, nor take for granted, because it is given to those who did stand up, did fight for a good cause and gave the gift of a long peace to big parts of the world.
This however does not at all require me to respect those murderers who bombed Hiroshima.
Your point is beyond borderline idiotic.

That the only ones who seem to believe in the need of an army usually is the army itself is sad isnt it? Only good, that probapganda relying on a few fabricated facts is enough to turn that oppinion around again. The adminsitration must have been under quite some shock on how easy that went.

Btw, Europeans tend to not hate Amreica, but stupidity, which they have every right to despise. Whilst most European nations have actively and effectively spent big efforts in stabilising all those shaked regions of our world, with thought and moderation, you still support sending troops, having no idea of what the result of this sending is; Neither you care.

Now on a little ex****** the American politic is always been one that knew to utilise the minds of the American people. None of its recent wars show only the smalest sign of a moralic conscience, but of strategys to exploit the voters uninformed state. All those wars have never been a foreighn policy decision, but as strategicaly calculated on its impact on the American people as Christmas sales are.
Whenever you have an extraordinarily stupid agenda, an outstanding case of incompetence, when you dont dare to openly hug fascistic and antidemocratic values, you just need some big nationwide effort project to let the curtain of forgetting spread.

This migth over the years produce a number of people, who think that nationalistic "patriotism" is more important than freedom of speech and all other basic human rights.

From my countries history I can see you choosing a very, very dangerous path, that will ultimately lead to more and more pain and inhumanity and from all your recent enterprises, the US has shown that it isnt up to deal with them on their own and on foreighn soil.

Thirdly this respect you can neither inheriate, nor take for granted, because it is given to those who did stand up, did fight for a good cause and gave the gift of a long peace to big parts of the world.
This however does not at all require me to respect those murderers who bombed Hiroshima.
Your point is beyond borderline idiotic.

Read up on the Japanese during that era. What they did to the many surrounding Asian nations is FAR more horrific than ANY bomb can do. It put them in their place and they needed that. I also hate that America had to go to that length, but ultimately I think it was worth it. If you want to blame someone for the bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki blame the Japanese govt at that time that brought that affliction on their own people.

the founding fathers werent living in a country which had profound social and economical impacts on other societies world-wide.

they took a look at british and french imperialism and thought, sod that.So now you're saying that Americans should feel free to involve themselves in other country's affairs because we have social/economical ties? Make up your mind.

shit, America provoked Japan into bombing Pearl Harbour. This is painfully obvious to anyone who actually knows more than surface details about the history of that time.

You're right, we did only enter the war because we were being bombed. America did not want to fight a war for the sole reason of rushing to the aid of Europe. We were still a developing nation and had never proved our worth in the world untill that time. Heaven forbid wanting to step in to a world swept war for no reason. Being bombed gave us a reason to do so, and how dare you casually throw away the lives that were lost in that attack. How can you type anything along those lines of us not helping Europe. From day one EVERY European has hated America and has never wanted to help it in any way shape or fasion. Why should I rush to the aid of someone that wouldn't do the same for me?

Want to know why we haven't won the war yet? It's because people like you constnatly badger and belittle our nation to the point where we can't. You shove out mindless statements about civilians and all this other crap that puts the nation in a tight spot. Yes, it's a sad thing when innocents lose their lives in a war, but war is war. I don't see any guilt for the loss of all of our friends in family on 9/11. Funny how you seem to pass that part up. It didn't happen to you in your nice little un-involved country, so why should it matter? Why should you even think twice about our loss? The rest of the world expects us to throw away that incident and play nice. That's not how it works, folks.

Well, all I can say to your "America doesn't care about the world" statement, is that America fought for you. You wouldn't exist had it not been for America, so why not show a little gratitude. We're all human. Corrupt people exist in every society, even America. But to say that we should give up our Army and pour money in to another source merely because people like you say so is ridiculous. Clinton did that, and just ask any military person what their view on the Clinton family is like.

Why bother and reply to your post if it means nothing? Merely because I want to. What you say won't effect the life of anyone, but I would prefer trying to set the record straight and telling you the areas where you are wrong. You give our nation no credit. You look at us as a big bully and as a worthless people. Forgive me if I feel no sympothy for European plights. I've met my fair share of Europeans, and no, not all of them are bad. I had a good friend who was British, but not once did he ever slander my nation, and I didn't his.

I didn't say the word love, so try re-reading my post. I said respect. A person of such high importance deserves respect. I may not like them, and my infact extremely disagree with them on every single aspect of their presidency, but that doesn't mean I don't respect them for being my president. People make wrong choices, as did Bush. He lost a lot of my respect over the immigration issue, but as President of the most powerful and influential nation in the world, he deserves a lot of respect.

So you're telling me that if America were one day in trouble you'd be the first to rush to our defense? I highly doubt that.

No, having power doesn't make killing civilians right. It is never "right" but sometimes it's a necessary evil. More lives are often lost if situations involving civilians aren't delt with. And just remember 9/11. Close to 6,000 CIVILIAN lives were lost that day. Heaven forbid you show some remorse for them.

Well now i know why you shouldn't bother reading my posts. I'm humanistic you are a nationalist/republican. You don't care about lives, but I do. That's the huge difference between us. You are self-righteous and can't see any mistakes wrong with your country, even though there are plenties. Second i didnt say that America didnt help Europe so stop putting words into my mouth, unbelieveble... Btw, shouldn't you start facting about Norway?

What do you mean they aren't helping? There are over 15 countries helping America in both Afghanistan and Iraq, so stop faking about the facts, so non-professional, jeez... Be happy for that, this is America's war. The Twin Towers arent in Paris or London, they are in New York, America. Be greatful for that ( and you are the one talking about being grateful?).

Btw. You state it yourself: I dont see any reason why people should die in 9/11... your words right? Well, you said it yourself= People die in war... It's sad, yes its sad. I did care about them, just as much as i care about starving people dieing in Africa. Im a humanist, whether you are white, blaack, yellow what so ever, your'e equal, no difference, that's my ideology. So stop faking on me like i didnt care about the people that died in 9/11.

Oh, now we are the reason for the loss in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh, i see, Big America has all of sudden got to be Small America. Come on, that apology is so weak. You knew that it would happen, you knew that the critics were going to be high, both America and Europe knew that there were no chemical weapons in Iraq, both America and Europe knew that the war was a mistake. You know why? Because you didnt obtain anything beside oil. But that wasn't the point of the war. The point was to make Iraq a nice place to live, and it didn't happend and will never happend. Why? Cause its Islamists, they are insane, and America and Europe knew that. They knew it was a failure from day 1 of. It's obvious ffs. The country has never been an ordinary place to live. NEVER! From the king to Saddam, it has been a total disaster.... So stop the manipulation of, that we, the criticizers, are the reeason to failure.

Im thankful to America. Im thankful for what they did for Europeans in WW2. No doubt, ive stated that before. But im not thankful that they are fucking ( excuse the language) the world. And the world won't accept that. And i do actualy write with a lot of American, and love talking to them. Otherwise i wouldnt be on these boards... The internet is filled up with Americans, so yes i do love Americans. Im just not a big fan of what America is made of today, if we look international.

Im not a fighter, so no i wouldnt fight for any country, and especially not for Bush. Why should I? I would fight for Clinton and Lincoln.

Heaven forbid you show some remorse for them I do. And heaven forbid you show some remorse for the 600.000 people who died in Iraq. And all the other victims in all the other countries USA has invated..

Read up on the Japanese during that era. What they did to the many surrounding Asian nations is FAR more horrific than ANY bomb can do. It put them in their place and they needed that. I also hate that America had to go to that length, but ultimately I think it was worth it. If you want to blame someone for the bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki blame the Japanese govt at that time that brought that affliction on their own people.

I just picked it a example, because its generaly known and the implications are obvious.

There is no doubt that the instantanious killing of 100.000 of civilians is a horrendous warcrime, that can not be excused with any argument. I wont go into the details of responsibility, but there are those Americans who not simply aided in its happening, but made it happen. I dont realy find myself to be able to respect their decisions or actions and my respect does shurely not go to them personaly.

About the Japanese: Thats a diffrent issue, but I generaly believe that every situation should be evaluated by taking its context into acount. I will just say, I dont believe in "fast war, short war, humane war" as they had printed on the banners they presented at that infamous Goebbels speech about total war. Thats a simplification that only is right in theory.

Added: Its about civilians and not lowering yourself to the thing you ultimately fight. There is a big gap between colateral damage and holding a nations people hostage.

So now you're saying that Americans should feel free to involve themselves in other country's affairs because we have social/economical ties? Make up your mind.

my other posts werent supposed to sound accusatory or anything. in my mind as i was typing i was just speaking normally. i was pointing out that being completely isolationist is just going to the other extreme and is just as unhelpful.

you said the founding fathers believed in isolationism, well i say again, thats too extremist because america has too many ties politically and economically with other nations.

extremist policies arent going to solve anything

thats what i meant.

I just picked it a example, because its generaly known and the implications are obvious.

There is no doubt that the instantanious killing of 100.000 of civilians is a horrendous warcrime, that can not be excused with any argument. I wont go into the details of responsibility, but there are those Americans who not simply aided in its happening, but made it happen. I dont realy find myself to be able to respect their decisions or actions and my respect does shurely not go to them personaly.

About the Japanese: Thats a diffrent issue, but I generaly believe that every situation should be evaluated by taking its context into acount, so I might just say, I dont believe in "fast war, short war, humane war" as they had printed on the banners they presented at that infamous Goebbels speech about the total war. Thats a simplification that only is right in theory.

Added: Its about civilians and not lowering yourself to the thing you ultimately fight. There is a big gap between colateral damage and holding a nations people hostage.

So, you still don't understand how many civilians the Japanese slaughtered/tortured and their own endless list of unprovoked war crimes. Maybe we should go back to the firing squad battles, each side lined up on the battlefield, that'll be more proper for you? >_> What kind of retard mentality is "not lowering yourself to the thing you ultimately fight", do you watch Sesame Street?! You don't realize the scale of what was done, you're being extremely narrow-minded about it. Civilians... what are you scared you'll be the civilian that is caught up and killed in a similar situation? Don't be a puss, seriously. Shit will happen to you no matter how righteous you think you are.

my other posts werent supposed to sound accusatory or anything. in my mind as i was typing i was just speaking normally. i was pointing out that being completely isolationist is just going to the other extreme and is just as unhelpful.

you said the founding fathers believed in isolationism, well i say again, thats too extremist because america has too many ties politically and economically with other nations.

extremist policies arent going to solve anything

thats what i meant.

I didn't say I wanted an extreme, I meant semi-isolationism. It needs to be tipped more towards inward improvement while still providing some help to other countries instead of pouncing at every other country's affairs. The reason I brought up the Founding Fathers is because it didn't apply to this EXACT moment in time. It applied many decades ago when my country started poking their fingers around in everyone's business. I do ultimately agree with your view point, I think our articulation is just misunderstanding to eachother.

So, you still don't understand how many civilians the Japanese slaughtered/tortured and their endless list of unprovoked warcrimes. Maybe we should go back to the firing squad battles, each side lined up on the battlefield, that'll be more proper for you? >_> What kind of retard mentality is "not lowering yourself to the thing you ultimately fight", do you watch Sesame Street?! You don't realize the scale of what was done, you're being extremely narrow-minded about it. Civilians... what are you scared you'll be the civilian that is caught up and killed in a similar situation? Don't be a puss, seriously. Shit will happen to you no matter how righteous you think you are.

I wont be one of the civilians m8, becuase the letter of calling me to get my gun will hit my home beforhand. I am not afraid of getting shot, nor of having to shoot people. I guess the implies a lot you might not understand, just dont call me a puss without prooving you have the means to back it up.

First tell me if you disagree on the following
The Japanese side had obviousely lost the war.
America was not anymore under treat by Japan, which had already lost its striking back capabilitys.
Japan was determained to withstand a ground invasion.
The US army knew, that ground invasion would be not very risky, but costing lots of blood.
They wiped out two cities, because they could, than treated to repeat, imposed an ultimatum, which the Japanese finaly decided not to let run out.
Peace was declared.

It was, you think, ok to kill those because there where warcrimes as well for example at the ocupation of china?
That is nothing but cheap lust for revenge.

The Iraq war has no point, first we went to Iraq to get terrorists, we overthrew the dictators yet still have found no trace of Osama who may not even be alive, now were in Iraq cause they think they have nuclear weapons which they don't, and now were fighting for oil which price has increased. Instead of spending money in the U.S. we spend it overseas while our country has bridges falling down. They spend trillions of dollars of tax payers money to fund this no end war, not to mention thousands of lives.

The Iraq war has no point, first we went to Iraq to get terrorists, we overthrew the dictators yet still have found no trace of Osama who may not even be alive, now were in Iraq cause they think they have nuclear weapons which they don't, and now were fighting for oil which price has increased. Instead of spending money in the U.S. we spend it overseas while our country has bridges falling down. They spend trillions of dollars of tax payers money to fund this no end war, not to mention thousands of lives.
I believe the US went to Iraq because of the alleged WMDs they had. Of course the government and the media have done a good job of covering up this one main reason for the war...

The Japanese side had obviousely lost the war.
America was not anymore under treat by Japan, which had already lost its striking back capabilitys.
Japan was determained to withstand a ground invasion.
The US army knew, that ground invasion would be not very risky, but costing lots of blood.
They wiped out two cities, because they could, than treated to repeat, imposed an ultimatum, which the Japanese finaly decided not to let run out.
Peace was declared.


Another reason was to show Soviet and the rest of the world that they were not afraid to use these new weapons in future conflicts.

First tell me if you disagree on the following
The Japanese side had obviousely lost the war.
America was not anymore under treat by Japan, which had already lost its striking back capabilitys.
Japan was determained to withstand a ground invasion.
The US army knew, that ground invasion would be not very risky, but costing lots of blood.
They wiped out two cities, because they could, than treated to repeat, imposed an ultimatum, which the Japanese finaly decided not to let run out.
Peace was declared.

It was, you think, ok to kill those because there where warcrimes as well for example at the ocupation of china?
That is nothing but cheap lust for revenge.

No, I'm just justifying what's done is done. Look at the big picture. Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasn't just bombed for the hell of it, blood lust or what have you. That's pretty much what you're saying. It was a lofty tactical decision in hopes to end the war with Japan asap without any further blood loss on America's part which would have resulted in more bloodshed on Japan's part as well anyways. America was already getting it's ass kicked fighting the Nazis. Neither of us could comprehend how heavy the tension was in the air at that point and everything that was going on. I may be putting words in your mouth but it very much sounds like anymore that no one would have a prob with America getting bombed to be put in our place.

one of the many reasons the US govt accepted to deploy those weapons was

1 - pretty much the entire japanese mainland population was enlisted and geared towards total defense of the homeland. in the event of a mainland invasion almost every man woman and child would be forced into service, either as a militia or as suicide bombers. basically the US calculated that it would be better to use a bombing campaign to save the lives of countless US soldiers

2 - in all honesty nobody knew what a hydrogen bomb would do if detonated on a real target.

up until then there was only tests so really they didnt know how destructive the actual bomb would really be. i know ignorance isnt the perfect defence but in this case they really didnt know what to expect.

basically, the US needed to end the war fast for damage limitation reasons and also needed to test new weapons. the culmination of circumstances led to the use of these weapons.

i dont think their was any bloodlust involved, i know the consequences were huge and are still being felt today, but the 19th and 20th centuries were very much times of ignorance.

the huge world wars and struggles of empire are something which were devastating and pretty much fought for no good reason. but if one good thing can be salvaged from those times its that we as a species have perhaps learnt a small lesson.

whether or not that lesson will have any future impact..... only time will tell.


but come on guys, dont play the blame game.

No, I'm just justifying what's done is done.

What are you doing other than that?

Look at the big picture. Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasn't just bombed for the hell of it, blood lust or what have you. That's pretty much what you're saying.

I see not blood lust, but the ongoing war as a reason for this "low risk" aproach, the cheap and easy way out of a sturggle, without having to deal with unknowns. Even though the risk was minimal all possible strategys and the number of possible saved lifes was incredible, comand decided diffrent. This might be connected with the urge of millitary commanders, to lean towards conservation of energy at all costs the more, the longer armed confrontations go on.

It was a lofty tactical decision in hopes to end the war with Japan asap without any further blood loss on America's part which would have resulted in more bloodshed on Japan's part as well anyways.

Not working out in numbers for me, leaving that Japan had run out of both petroleum and food, with no means of aquiering. Without those an army is practicaly already disabled.

America was already getting it's ass kicked fighting the Nazis.

They shouldnt; Germany had already surrenderd month ago.

Neither of us could comprehend how heavy the tension was in the air at that point and everything that was going on.

I deduct from the above said the "tension" was not a relevant factor, nor whas the US forces command incompetent to decide right because of it.

I may be putting words in your mouth but it very much sounds like anymore that no one would have a prob with America getting bombed to be put in our place.

I dont understand this sentance after having read it several times.


Bold are comments added by me.

The lust of revenge saying was directed at you, because you seemed to weight the deeds of 2 governments against each other. They are entirely independent and you cant use one bigger injustice to justify another one. Emotions are not a good judge on this and you need to snap out of the idea, that certain people deserve to be treated bad, or some people have the right to do such things, even if its horrible. Dont get the feeling that I am posting this out of aggravation, when I rush to the point and overdraw. I do it to reveal the inner principles of the situation and make basis for a fruitfull controversy.

Words of a wise man.

Objection!