Isn't it just sad the way everyone seems to make the little soo out of proportion when it comes to religion? A friend sent this to me and I just think it's pathetic that a child got freakin ISS(in-school suspension) for just doing a report on his beliefs.




ON THE MORNING of December 7, 2007, Christopher Campbell walked into his English Honors class at Parker High School, prepared to tear out pages of the Bible.

Earlier that week his teacher had taped aphorisms by Ralph Waldo Emerson on the blackboard. Students were to select an aphorism of their choice, explain what they thought Emerson’s words meant, and relate it to a personal experience, accompanied with a visual aid.

Campbell picked, “So far as a man thinks, he is free,” and spent the next few nights composing a rough draft in preparation for his speech.

On the day of his presentation, Campbell stood up in front of the class and said:

What Ralph Waldo Emerson meant when he said, “So far as a man thinks, he is free,” was that our only freedom, what we call our “free will” is our ability to think. This particular saying is likened to me because I no longer rely on such things as faith and feeling as sources of knowledge.

We must all grow up and lose our faith in the Easter Bunny, Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and eventually Jesus, because such things are fairy tales and while maybe appropriate for children, they cease to be rational when one reaches a certain age. Things like faith, mysticism, and feeling restrict one from productive, rational thought, and if we are not thinking, we are not free. Our only means of acquiring knowledge should be through rationale and logic.

Ayn Rand personifies her vision of man’s existence in her magnum opus, Atlas Shrugged. Rand says that the pursuit of our own happiness should be our goal in life and that morality does not come from others. The Bible says the poor man is rich for his kindness and humility toward mankind, and his rewards shall be great in the kingdom of heaven. Right. And I’m the King of England.

The Bible is not rational to me, so why would I want to waste my life studying it, trying to seek some “moral enlightenment” from its pages?

Now what I’m about to do next, some of your tiny little brains might not be able to comprehend, so viewer discretion is advised.

Campbell then lifted a copy of the Bible in his hand as he spoke:

This book has halted the intellectual advancement of humankind for centuries. But now I am free from its grasp, so I am free to do this.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became kindling. (At this point, Campbell starts to tear the pages.) This book is not holy. It was written by a bunch of old, smelly Mesopotamians with sand in their [expletive].

Now, will anyone come up here with me to testify, and kick Jesus out of your heart? (No response from the students.) Well, I guess I’m surrounded by a bunch of superstitious, simple-minded ignoramuses.

Campbell sat down. Only three students clapped. The teacher gave him a B.

“My tearing of the Bible was symbolism for breaking out of the barrier of mysticism. It personified my stance as a thinking, rational human being. I see it as anyone who reads the Bible as a factual document of history is not really thinking,” Campbell said in an email interview with the Humanist. For privacy reasons, Campbell had previously declined interviews with local newspapers.

But what began as a simple demonstration of free will resulted in a school-wide controversy. Word quickly spread throughout Parker about the incident. Barbara Dougal, an assistant principal, brought him to her office later that day and told him several students had voiced concerns about his presentation, and that appropriate discipline needed to be taken.

He was taken to in-school suspension and then sent home. A meeting with his parents was scheduled. The assistant principal, a police officer assigned to the high school and a social services worker attended, Campbell says, and he was barraged with questions unrelated to the actual incident: What do you do when you get angry? Are there problems at home?

“It was intimidating to have them all gang up on me like that,” Campbell said. “They really drove me to tears. Maybe it was their tone and my mom being there.” Campbell suspects that his behavior during the meeting convinced the officials that he was “unstable” and they ordered him to be examined by a psychiatrist before returning to school. He would be suspended for a week on the basis of “inappropriate language,” according to Campbell. Parker’s Principal Dale Carlson told the Janesville Gazette that Campbell’s punishment was “not tied specifically to the ripping of the Bible pages.”

“I did not harm anyone, put anyone in immediate danger, or threaten anyone. I didn’t say to the class, ‘I’m going to hurt you if you are a Christian.’” said Campbell.

But students did feel threatened--so threatened that one parent, Paul Jacobson, the father of Elle Jacobson, a student in Campbell’s English class, has withdrawn enrollment for both of his daughters from Parker, telling local NBC Channel 15, “This boy has done something that is unbalanced, violent in my opinion. He tore that Bible apart as an effigy for Christians. This was not some kind of a demonstration about free speech; this was in my opinion the words of a sociopath.”

Campbell thinks the Jacobsons are overreacting. “Seriously, did she really think I was going to hurt anybody?” he asked. “I do not believe I showed any anger or hostility, just irritation and frustration at organized religion.”

The district’s legal counsel, David Moore, was asked to provide an opinion, a copy of which was obtained by the local newspaper. Moore clarified that a student can’t be punished for the mere act of tearing Bible pages, but the school had the right to discipline him on the grounds of using foul language and promoting “negative stereotyping that degrades or flagrantly demeans any individual or group by negatively referring to religion.” Campbell strongly disagrees. “I think it’s [expletive] that religion is protected in this country. It’s not like race, gender, ethnicity or nationality. People can’t help those things. They can, however, help what they think.” In the days following the incident, newspapers, television reporters, and bloggers around the country provided their own commentary on Campbell’s actions. Many supported him and viewed the incident as a First Amendment issue. Others saw it as offensive and a direct attack on Christianity.

Reactions from fellow students have been mixed. “At the end of the class two students approached me,” Campbell explains. “One said, ‘You’re my hero,’ and another said, ‘Wow, you have a lot of [expletive] to do something like that.’ No negative comments at all. But a friend told me later that someone in his class said, ‘He should be beat up for his atheist [expletive].’”

Rebecca Comfort, a student at Parker and friend of Campbell, said, “I got a kick out of the speech. He’s creative and has a strong way of how he expresses himself. Anyone that knows him knows that this isn’t anything aside from his regular personality.”

Other students at Parker voiced their opinions by posting comments on the social networking site, Facebook:

I think the topic needs to stay more on the fact that Chris was unduly punished because his point of view did not reflect the masses.

Christianity is a religion. It is a sacred belief, and held close to many people. But Christianity, like other religions and beliefs, should not be made a target and threatened and insulted upon by people who disagree. It’s fine to believe what you’d like, but it’s not alright to shock your way of belief onto others.

Why doesn’t he have the right to rip pages out of his own property? To him it’s nothing, so why shouldn’t he be able to with it what he pleases?

Though Campbell is back at school and life at Parker appears to have returned to normal, he says, “The whole incident was totally blown out of proportion.” But considering the media attention surrounding his actions, would he do it again? He says yes. “I had every right to do it. I was not sorry for what I did.”

His actions open up larger arguments over how far a person can go when challenging religious belief. Students and parents have the right to feel offended--even angered--at Campbell’s actions.

But it’s hard to believe school officials that the act of ripping the Bible had nothing to do with his punishment. Imagine a student tearing copies of Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species and calling evolutionists “simple-minded ignoramuses.” The student would receive no more than an afternoon of detention, if that. And to believe that today’s high schoolers never use inappropriate language--even slipping in an occasional curse word in a class presentation--is naïve. If Campbell’s interpretation of his presentation is accurate, none of his comments should have been perceived as threatening.

Whether or not ripping the Bible was the right thing to do, Campbell had the freedom to do it. What better way to display the importance of Emerson’s words?

Horsecock.

I hate how religion still rules everything. He was COMPLETELY within appropriate boundaries and should not have gotten in trouble at all. Stuff like this gives religion a bad name and makes everyone who believes in something out to be a complete crybaby pussy...

Complete horsecock...

Usually, I'd go on the side of the school in cases like this, but he seems very intelligent and stands by his opinion greatly. That principal ftl.

I think he was within his rights to do that.

I mean, sure it's provocative but, that's the whole point.

**** them. Religion is religion, nothing more. People don't have the right to debase other people just because they believe in the Bible. Hell, the people who believe in religion and a God are the ones who are going to laugh when they die, go to heaven, and leave everyone else to rot in hell.

where was this located i would like to show that school a piece of my mind

maybe a part of my left cerebrum where anger is stored

i would tear them to pieces because he has every right

i got suspended for something close to this

i was talking about how the bible was nonsence and how we are all free to think for ourselves

only problem was it was during my confirmation where i was asked to present a speach on gods importance in our lives

Lord have mercy, for they don't know what they are doing.

YAY FOR NON-CONFORMISTS.

Tis all I have to say.

He expressed his opinion well within his rights, no one gets suspended for a week just for cussing.

Yes he was within his rights to do that as freedom of expression.

but to do it and not expect ANY kind of retaliation is ignorant in the extreme.

Purposefully destroying any precious religious text/symbol for demonstrative purposes is OBVIOUSLY going to offend some followers of that religion.

I dont care if all of you are going to get all *****y and say "omg religion is so dumb, i want to do whatever i want" i would STILL get pissed off if something that meant alot to me was desecrted in that way.

If somebody from america came to my university, came in and gave a lecture about how shit britain was then burned the Union Jack at the end as an example i would have a problem with that, free speech or not.

its the same with an atheist burning or ripping up a bible.

to not expect any kind of retribution is so idiotic, so pathetically purile that i can hardly believe everyone is up in arms over this.

freedom of speech and expression works both ways you know. people have a right not to be belittled or made to feel stupid.

the speech itself was enough, although very course and blase it was enough. ripping a page from the bible wasnt needed. would you rip a page from the quaran in a school filled predominantly with muslims?

probably not, but then alot of people seem to have a problem with christians in america.


I hate how religion still rules everything.

religion doesnt rule everything. american public schools dont even have morning prayer like we do in england.

religion doesnt rule everything. american public schools dont even have morning prayer like we do in england.
Our Pledge of Allegiance still has "one nation, under God" in it.

Yes he was within his rights to do that as freedom of expression.

but to do it and not expect ANY kind of retaliation is ignorant in the extreme.

Purposefully destroying any precious religious text/symbol for demonstrative purposes is OBVIOUSLY going to offend some followers of that religion.

I dont care if all of you are going to get all *****y and say "omg religion is so dumb, i want to do whatever i want" i would STILL get pissed off if something that meant alot to me was desecrted in that way.

If somebody from america came to my university, came in and gave a lecture about how shit britain was then burned the Union Jack at the end as an example i would have a problem with that, free speech or not.

its the same with an atheist burning or ripping up a bible.

to not expect any kind of retribution is so idiotic, so pathetically purile that i can hardly believe everyone is up in arms over this.

freedom of speech and expression works both ways you know. people have a right not to be belittled or made to feel stupid.

the speech itself was enough, although very course and blase it was enough. ripping a page from the bible wasnt needed. would you rip a page from the quaran in a school filled predominantly with muslims?

probably not, but then alot of people seem to have a problem with christians in america.

religion doesnt rule everything. american public schools dont even have morning prayer like we do in england.

He should've expected retaliation, just not from the school.

ummm he insulted people of a certain religion?

what? do u think ppl can get off scott free shouting at muslim students, calling them ignorant and ripping the qu'ran?

ummm he insulted people of a certain religion?

what? do u think ppl can get off scott free shouting at muslim students, calling them ignorant and ripping the qu'ran?

I have a report for English this week, I'll find out.

He shouls send this to the Supreme Court. If you read the Amendments, theres something called 'Freedom of Speech'. He can dot hat under the First Amendment. I wish I could tell the Principal that.

He shouls send this to the Supreme Court. If you read the Amendments, theres something called 'Freedom of Speech'. He can dot hat under the First Amendment. I wish I could tell the Principal that.

where the hell have u been? freedom of speech does not apply to most american schools.

here are some of the restrictions of freedom of speech

-Defamation
-Product defamation
-Obscenity
-Lying in court
-Talking out of turn during a trial, or talk that causes contempt of court
-Speaking about a trial outside the court room after the judge forbids it.
-Speaking publicly without a permit
-Speaking publicly outside of a free speech zone
-Limits on the size of public demonstrations
-Profanity
-Hate speech that is defamatory or causes incitement to violence
-Noise pollution
-Speech that contains a copyright infringement
-Company secrets
-Political secrets: campaign strategies, dirty past/deeds of a politician, etc.
-Classified information: sensitive or secret to protect the national interest.
-Lies that cause a crowd to panic or causes Clear and present danger or Imminent lawless action, such as shouting fire in a crowded theater
-"insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace"
-Sedition
-Treason: to talk publicly of the death of all countrymen or the overthrow of the government
-Blasphemy is illegal in several Western and Muslim countries
-The first clause of UK's Terrorism Act 2006 punishes "Encouragement of terrorism" with up to seven years in jail.
-In Sweden a law called "Hets mot folkgrupp" ("Agitation against an ethnic group"), usually translated to hate speech, denies promotion of racism and homophobia.
-In Finland, a new copyright law was enacted in October 2005, which prohibited "services making possible or facilitating the circumvention of effective technical measures".
-Article 301 of the Turkish Penal code, makes it illegal to insult 'Turkishness'.

There is also freedom of belief and separation of church and state.

where the hell have u been? freedom of speech does not apply to most american schools.

I thought it applies to all Public Schools. . . . .


Ansd I live under a Carboard box btw. <3 It has champaign and caviar and other fancy stuff~ Its My cardbaord mansion. .TAKE THAT HOBOSEXUAL. xD -

religion doesnt rule everything. american public schools dont even have morning prayer like we do in england.

I disagree. I live here in the midwest and mostly everyones lives around here center around their church and their churches principals. If I were to do something like this I would get in much more trouble because I guarantee you everyone in my school would be in an uproar.

I disagree. I live here in the midwest and mostly everyones lives around here center around their church and their churches principals. If I were to do something like this I would get in much more trouble because I guarantee you everyone in my school would be in an uproar.

so you are saying that, religion rules everything because where you come from most people would get angry if you tore up a bible owing to the fact that they are mostly very religious.

hmmm. interesting conclusion.

a more proper conclusion would be that a larger proportion of the population in the midwest is religious, so it wouldnt be a good idea to pull a stunt like that where you come from.

just like it wouldnt be a could idea to walk through the palestine districts sporting an isreali flag.

religion doesnt rule everything.

Yes he was within his rights to do that as freedom of expression.

but to do it and not expect ANY kind of retaliation is ignorant in the extreme.

Purposefully destroying any precious religious text/symbol for demonstrative purposes is OBVIOUSLY going to offend some followers of that religion.

I dont care if all of you are going to get all *****y and say "omg religion is so dumb, i want to do whatever i want" i would STILL get pissed off if something that meant alot to me was desecrted in that way.

If somebody from america came to my university, came in and gave a lecture about how shit britain was then burned the Union Jack at the end as an example i would have a problem with that, free speech or not.

its the same with an atheist burning or ripping up a bible.

to not expect any kind of retribution is so idiotic, so pathetically purile that i can hardly believe everyone is up in arms over this.

freedom of speech and expression works both ways you know. people have a right not to be belittled or made to feel stupid.

the speech itself was enough, although very course and blase it was enough. ripping a page from the bible wasnt needed. would you rip a page from the quaran in a school filled predominantly with muslims?

probably not, but then alot of people seem to have a problem with christians in america.


Have some cormbradz, you deserve it. ♥

so you are saying that, religion rules everything because where you come from most people would get angry if you tore up a bible owing to the fact that they are mostly very religious.

hmmm. interesting conclusion.

a more proper conclusion would be that a larger proportion of the population in the midwest is religious, so it wouldnt be a good idea to pull a stunt like that where you come from.

just like it wouldnt be a could idea to walk through the palestine districts sporting an isreali flag.

religion doesnt rule everything.

It doesn't but most people seem to lose sight of the matter and over rationalize to the point of absurdity...

Just to point something from Kyo's post.
The Supreme Court is a waste of Federal Budget, they may rule on something, but it doesn't become illegal to ignore their ruling, it simply becomes a matter of opinion, simply because they aren't a justice system, they're an overzealous group of public relations.

As for this suspension, it was wrong, the students should have excluded him, but he was well within his rights, and as a fellow atheist, this is what we call bullcrap where the school should be inspected immediatly.

As for this suspension, it was wrong, the students should have excluded him, but he was well within his rights, and as a fellow atheist, this is what we call bullcrap where the school should be inspected immediatly.

i think the problems arose from students complaining TO the school. i think that basically forced their hand in the matter. if a student has a problem with another student then its up to the school to sort it out. obviously in this case they thought a suspension was an adequate punishment. if i was going to do something as provocative as this then id expect some backlash.

i think the problems arose from students complaining TO the school. i think that basically forced their hand in the matter. if a student has a problem with another student then its up to the school to sort it out. obviously in this case they thought a suspension was an adequate punishment. if i was going to do something as provocative as this then id expect some backlash.

well if you think about it, this is in complete violation of all school codes, the students, or more like gods little gremlins forced the hand of the school, which should never happen D=<

if i was going to do something like this the most i'd expect is a few visits to the psychiatrist, not a damn suspension.

if anything now, kid should get a medal.

well if you think about it, this is in complete violation of all school codes, the students, or more like gods little gremlins forced the hand of the school, which should never happen D=<

if i was going to do something like this the most i'd expect is a few visits to the psychiatrist, not a damn suspension.

if anything now, kid should get a medal.

yeah the end result was quite harsh.

im guessing this was because the school has never had to deal with something like this before and the huge reaction by the students made the whole thing erupt.

still, at least that kid will be the "hey are you that kid that ripped up that bible?" kid for the rest of his school days.

i went to school with one of the students who got arrested and moved schools for sending death threats to his teacher. he was a really nice guy.

i went to school with one of the students who got arrested and moved schools for sending death threats to his teacher. he was a really nice guy.


holy crap, that used to be me when i was 13, except i never got arrested or moved schools, i just scared the shit out of the teachers and punched through a door.

oh happy days.
i swear im normal now
*shakes romp*

I disagree with him. I'm athiest and I think that no ones religion should be bashed like that. All the christians in my school are like. "Ha jeffs going to hell," "Hey guess what ****er? I don't care!" I dislike some christians because everytime I bring out my opinion on christianity they go. "SO WAT I R BELIV IN BIBLE ATLEST I NOT GONG 2 HELL!" But I respect their religion because I believe the bible teaches people to behave. I don't believe in jesus or god though.

I disagree with him. I'm athiest and I think that no ones religion should be bashed like that. All the christians in my school are like. "Ha jeffs going to hell," "Hey guess what ****er? I don't care!" I dislike some christians because everytime I bring out my opinion on christianity they go. "SO WAT I R BELIV IN BIBLE ATLEST I NOT GONG 2 HELL!" But I respect their religion because I believe the bible teaches people to behave. I don't believe in jesus or god though.

I don't think this 'event' is as much about religious bashing as the right to have freedom of speech. Whether you agree with him or not, he still doesn't deserve to get in ANY trouble.

Did they just quote a christian cursing? Isn't that against the bible?
That is why I don't like religion, they are all so hypocrit. Most of them only use the things of the religion that is usefull to THEM.

Our Pledge of Allegiance still has "one nation, under God" in it.

Holy crap... my dollar says "In god we trust" religion has been ruling the economy for years! JESUS CHRIST (literally!)

Mass histeria! CATS CHASING DOGS!! RAIN RISING FROM THE GROUND AND WOLVERINE SLICING YOUR NUTS!

Seriously this kid went a little over the top. As if the speech wasn't "I am better than you" enough. Any normal person would respect ones belief and not call into question that... "Hey I am right and you aren't! Follow me!".

There are better ways to handle it, and in my opinion he wasn't even that intellectual about it.

As for the punishment... yea we all know why they punished him. In all seriousness though, with the school shootings that have been happening lately one must take into question if a person who gets angry, which we don't know how angry he looked mind you, that the person should go through some pysch evaluation. Its better to be safe than to have 10 dead kids.

Charming, this dude has balls.

Any punishment on this guy is a travesty. I absolutely hate the fact that if you have enough people ***** the administration just caves in so easily. Absolutely ridiculous.

He had every right to do what he did. Secondary schools are about learning,and the pursuit of knowledge. While you may not agree with what he said, or even how he said it, it does give one a different perspective and if anything his opinion/speech should have been welcomed with open arms. It was after all his own opinion.

And for fk sakes.... it was an ENGLISH class people. English is about exploring the language and being able to express ones thoughts, and interpretations. There have been many essays, books (fiction or non) in our history that have edgy points of views.

He did not put a gun to anyone's head and force them to accept his point of view. It was merely a provocative speech. If anyone was anywhere near close to offended by what he said they seriously need to wake da fk up and realize that you cannot and should not force your religion on anyone at anytime for any reason.

Giving this guy a punishment based on what some delirious religious fanatics ***** about is or should be a crime.

I know I would sue the *** off that school if they punished me for something like that.

I know I would sue the *** off that school if they punished me for something like that.


Because sueing the heck out of everything is the way to solve problems, amirite?

"OMG U PUNISHED ME! GIVE ME $5000000000000 DOLLARS AND I"LL BE HAPPY"

Because sueing the heck out of everything is the way to solve problems, amirite?

"OMG U PUNISHED ME! GIVE ME $5000000000000 DOLLARS AND I"LL BE HAPPY"

Nope... but isn't that what a lot of Americans do? lol (note: I am Canadian)

Remember when that tard spilled hot coffee and sued successfully because her coffee was hot? That was the stupidest thing I ever heard of and how a judge didn't throw that case out before it got anywhere is beyond me. it just goes to show that even the dumbest person can sue someone for no reason ...and win.

The lawsuit would mainly be to draw even more attention to the subject. Hell, I would even sue for $1 just to drag that moronic school into a courtroom for months/years whatever. It would be worth it just to say how stupid they were.

:)

phrozen did you even read this post:


Holy crap... my dollar says "In god we trust" religion has been ruling the economy for years! JESUS CHRIST (literally!)

Mass histeria! CATS CHASING DOGS!! RAIN RISING FROM THE GROUND AND WOLVERINE SLICING YOUR NUTS!

Seriously this kid went a little over the top. As if the speech wasn't "I am better than you" enough. Any normal person would respect ones belief and not call into question that... "Hey I am right and you aren't! Follow me!".

There are better ways to handle it, and in my opinion he wasn't even that intellectual about it.

As for the punishment... yea we all know why they punished him. In all seriousness though, with the school shootings that have been happening lately one must take into question if a person who gets angry, which we don't know how angry he looked mind you, that the person should go through some pysch evaluation. Its better to be safe than to have 10 dead kids.

of course he had the right to speak his mind, but to do it in such a blase and childish manner is completely idiotic.

there are a hundred different ways he could have expressed his point without coming across as a small minded self obsessed bigot.

expressing your opinion and fervently attacking someones chosen beliefs are two very different things.


Giving this guy a punishment based on what some delirious religious fanatics ***** about is or should be a crime.

yeah because they were all TOTALLY religious fanatics. nice assumption mate.

of course he had the right to speak his mind, but to do it in such a blase and childish manner is completely idiotic.

there are a hundred different ways he could have expressed his point without coming across as a small minded self obsessed bigot.

expressing your opinion and fervently attacking someones chosen beliefs are two very different things.

Reacting strongly and acting upon your feelings is disgraceful.

What kind of example are those Christians showing that kid?

The main reasons why Christianity ever can be unpopular, is because those who run with it are unable to life up to it the slightest bit, are bringing shame and disgrace over it and are discouraging anyone to even consider to be associated with them.

They let their so called believe cloud their judgment and when they refuse to question it and have it questioned by others, they make it worthless and harmful.

***

Now the right thing to do is to scold the kid, for it is not in the position to judge at his age, but to learn and gain experience.
His move was therefore premature and disrespectful, but also courageous. This shows us that his punishment should be minor.

If we fail to show children, what our values are and if we fail at representing them, we fail as a person on the most important duty and responsibility there is.
Conviction will misguide us if it doesn't come from a calm mind.

Little ****er got what was comming to him.
If I was in that class I would give the kid the old 1, 2 skip-a-roo.


The power of Jesus ftw.

I find it funny that 90% of ONRPG is suddenly all gun ho atheist...interesting how atheism is the "cool thing to do"...

Either way, I basically logged on to reply to Civil...

"Little ****er"? Isn't it against the Bible to judge others, even in spite and during times of injustice? Is it not wrong to curse? Is it not a sin?

"1-2-Skip-a-roo" I assume is a term to say beat up, which is also against the "rules of the Bible". It's a sin to involve yourself in acts of violence to prove a point, or fight somebody just because they are different.

If you're going to be an *** about religion, at least know the boundaries in your own, and know what grounds you stand upon as a Christian...otherwise you are just another "Bible freak" that runs around telling people they found God so they are so much better than everybody else. Learn what Christianity is, and then post your heresy.

Either way, I basically logged on to reply to Civil...

Look at his avatar. Explains everything, dummy...

phrozen did you even read this post:




of course he had the right to speak his mind, but to do it in such a blase and childish manner is completely idiotic.

there are a hundred different ways he could have expressed his point without coming across as a small minded self obsessed bigot.

expressing your opinion and fervently attacking someones chosen beliefs are two very different things.



yeah because they were all TOTALLY religious fanatics. nice assumption mate.

I think the thing that is being missed was the forum in which he expressed his opinions. AN ENGLISH CLASS. Not a public forum, not in front of millions of people, not on television. It was with his peers and his teacher BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. ie private (in a sense)

A good teacher would have been able to control that situation by using it to spark a healthy debate.

There is no reason why anyone outside of that class should have even know about it.

That is why i said "religious fanatics". Obviously someone was overzealous with what was said, and just "had" to tell on the guy. Whether religious fanatic was the wrong term to use or not, the fact remains that (some) of the people in that class took things too personally when all in all, it was the guys opinion and nothing to do with them.

I think the thing that is being missed was the forum in which he expressed his opinions. AN ENGLISH CLASS. Not a public forum, not in front of millions of people, not on television. It was with his peers and his teacher BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. ie private (in a sense)

A good teacher would have been able to control that situation by using it to spark a healthy debate.

There is no reason why anyone outside of that class should have even know about it.

That is why i said "religious fanatics". Obviously someone was overzealous with what was said, and just "had" to tell on the guy. Whether religious fanatic was the wrong term to use or not, the fact remains that (some) of the people in that class took things too personally when all in all, it was the guys opinion and nothing to do with them.

too personally? nothing to do with them?
if i come into your class and call everyone a stupid canadian and rip your flag, i hope you all do not take that too personally because it probably does not have to do anything to do with you, that is, other than the fact that i insulted you and your people.

Everyones jumping on this kid and calling him a bigot on here.

His speech was targeted to organized religion. He simply used what he had available to him. If he was in a hebrew school he would have used the torah.

Everyones jumping on this kid and calling him a bigot on here.

His speech was targeted to organized religion. He simply used what he had available to him. If he was in a hebrew school he would have used the torah.

no... really? i thought he would use a cookbook

too personally? nothing to do with them?
if i come into your class and call everyone a stupid canadian and rip your flag, i hope you all do not take that too personally because it probably does not have to do anything to do with you, that is, other than the fact that i insulted you and your people.

Now we are getting to the core of it.

It's got nothing to do with religion, but with defending the herd and biting down the ill, that slows us down.

Dude was well within his rights to express his beleifs on Christianity in the bill of rights it declares we have the freedom of speech and i think he should not have been suspened for what he had said but you can't expect that destroying a religious document won't offend the christian class members. Religion is touchy now, but you have to remember America was founded on the need for religious freedom so every one has a right to beleif in Christ to Alah or nobody at all.

Dude was well within his rights to express his beleifs on Christianity in the bill of rights it declares we have the freedom of speech and i think he should not have been suspened for what he had said but you can't expect that destroying a religious document won't offend the christian class members. Religion is touchy now, but you have to remember America was founded on the need for religious freedom so every one has a right to beleif in Christ to Alah or nobody at all.

QFPT.

quoted for partial truth
america was founded for colonial purposes but people from other countries came to be free from religious persecution.

QFPT.

quoted for partial truth
america was founded for colonial purposes but people from other countries came to be free from religious persecution.

Groups like the puritans came to escape religious persecution. Except most of the times they persecuted people who weren't protestant.

no... really? i thought he would use a cookbook

Well they might if it's a cooking class (seriously).

"I WILL NO LONGER BE A SLAVE TO THESE CAKES!" *rips cookbook open*

I don't think this 'event' is as much about religious bashing as the right to have freedom of speech. Whether you agree with him or not, he still doesn't deserve to get in ANY trouble.

Actually. What he did was wrong. He bashed on someones religion. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's right. That was quoted from a good friend of mine. ZemekisFenix. One of the smarter beings that I know.

Well... That was interesting.

I can say his speech has passion and has every right to voice his beliefs... To the degree where people aren't threatened. This is the point where it gets hard to determine.

It sounds mostly threatening. That can be solely down to him ripping pages from the bible or calling it a fairytale for children. I also believe the backlash he recieved got out of hand and I can understand why the school would act upon it.

If anything the speech could've been written better.

freedom of speech .... yes, i agree

freedom of practice, not to be ridiculed or belittled ... yes i agree

obviously lots of you have a problem with that


"omg those dumb asses are retards" - welcome to failville; pop YOU

"omfg religion runs everything" - enjoy your 'concrete' examples of the failure of man and enjoy your attempts at rationalizing your failed 'occultism'.

I think the thing that is being missed was the forum in which he expressed his opinions. AN ENGLISH CLASS. Not a public forum, not in front of millions of people, not on television. It was with his peers and his teacher BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. ie private (in a sense)

A good teacher would have been able to control that situation by using it to spark a healthy debate.

There is no reason why anyone outside of that class should have even know about it.

That is why i said "religious fanatics". Obviously someone was overzealous with what was said, and just "had" to tell on the guy. Whether religious fanatic was the wrong term to use or not, the fact remains that (some) of the people in that class took things too personally when all in all, it was the guys opinion and nothing to do with them.

in your opinion it was due to the lack of a "good teacher"

well im glad that you accept the persecution of a minority, perhaps you would enjoy the events of 1936 germany?

the point is that STRUCTURED CRITICISM and downright immature persecution ARE VERY DIFFERENT THINGS

the child could have conducted his argument in very different ways, but he chose not to

so he had to accept the consequences

It's interesting to note the rise of people actually caring for others in this country today. Let's spend all of our free time doing whatever we want for ourselves, and when someone says something that bashes the Christian faith and gets in trouble for it, Woah, hold the horses. Let's all rush to his aid and defend somebody who was basically a jack ***, a moron, an idiot, and a self-less person all together. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Sure, America has religious freedom. Sure, we have Freedom of Speech. But does that make what you can do under legal limits right? This kid was a jerk. He knew straight off what would happen if he did this, and his sole purpose was purely to stir up trouble and controversy. Great role model for you all to follow. Really, I hope you all follow this kids example and aspire to be just like him!

You're not a Christian? Fine. You don't want doctrine shoved down your throat? Fine. But don't you DARE desecrate the Word of God in front of me, or anywhere for that matter. Have the decency to respect something that's existed for 2,000 years, and has been the prime focus of most of the world for that whole time.

Get off your high horses, and jump off the bandwagon. Honestly, some of you people make me sick.