I would say yes. Not just cause I smoke, but there are a lot more pros than cons.

It would increase/stimulate the economy. Meaning money would not stay in the drug/black market anymore and instead be back into the general economy.

It would decrease the inmate population. Most states are in a crisis with the ever growing inmate populations. A lot of normal people are being locked up over weed. Thank God I have yet to be caught.

It would make it more sociably accepted and less frowned upon.

Alcohol is far more damaging then weed could ever be and that is a legal.

How do you feel about this and why? Lets all try and keep an open mind for this discussion please.

damn I wanted to make a poll...o wells..I clicked to quick and posted without it, damn pot head. =D

I was going to post something long.. but to cut it plainly short.

No. It'll f**k everybody up later on.

No, there wouldn't be more pros than cons if weed were legalized in the USA. If weed went into the agricultural market, then it would be a major cash crop. The problem with this is that weed generates more money than fruits and vegetables, and would thus make farmers more likely to switch over to growing that crop, instead of food. We would then experience a low in agricultural production.

Also, it's just sort of hard for me to imagine a "normal" person who smokes weed. Meh, more inmates in jail = more opportunities for jobs for the people of America.

Alcohol is more damaging than weed? Both are destructive and dangerous when used incorrectly, but isn't weed a lot easier to get addicted to?

Lastly, it would just never be accepted by the majority of the population. There would be riots and whatnot of people wondering how our government could legalize a potentially deadly drug. I'm sure it would become a very large problem with teens as well.

No, there wouldn't be more pros than cons if weed were legalized in the USA. If weed went into the agricultural market, then it would be a major cash crop. The problem with this is that weed generates more money than fruits and vegetables, and would thus make farmers more likely to switch over to growing that crop, instead of food. We would then experience a low in agricultural production.

Also, it's just sort of hard for me to imagine a "normal" person who smokes weed. Meh, more inmates in jail = more opportunities for jobs for the people of America.

Alcohol is more damaging than weed? Both are destructive and dangerous when used incorrectly, but isn't weed a lot easier to get addicted to?

Lastly, it would just never be accepted by the majority of the population. There would be riots and whatnot of people wondering how our government could legalize a potentially deadly drug. I'm sure it would become a very large problem with teens as well.

Weed is not addictive. alcohol is by far addictive and deadly..Smoking weed has never been a factor of health related deaths. Alcohol thousands die every year to liver failure and so much more.

You provided absolutely no cons to your argument, which shows me you do not look at the other side of the table.
I cannot take your argument into any sort of consideration if you're saying "yeah man, they should legalize weed cause of this, this, and that." as opposed to saying "sure, these are the reasons weed maybe should not be legalized, however, i strongly believe that this, this, and that might make up for it/prove better/outweigh all those other things."

Make it medically legal "think it already is in US right?". since it suposedly does help with cronic pains n other crap.
although making it fully legal. would be ok depending tho. most people arnt complete retards anymore like back in the 70/whatever when they were all minions of the weed n stuff lool, and to be honest tthe stuff smells, makes people smell horrible after they've smoked it, and you wouldnt want the o-zone layer to get bigger cause of weed do you lool?.

so in short, no don't legalize. no country needs more idiots running around braindead and out of it cause they've had a joint of weed with there buddys.

so your argument is "i smoke weed and its great so it should be legalized"

hmm, nice one.


no it shouldnt be made legal. not until someone proves to me that the benefits easily outweigh the potential problems.



also dont go on about "oh alcohol is bad and kills people" yadda yadda... we know that already. but alcohol has a different history, thats why it is accepted.

if alcohol was discovered for the first time tomorrow then it would probably be illegal.

i'd respond in here but i know you'll offer no intelligent conversation

so rather, here's a hedgehog with a cardboard tube on his head:

http://i30.tinypic.com/23ldtmb.jpg

enjoy it while you're high.

I would say yes. Not just cause I smoke, but there are a lot more pros than cons.

It would increase/stimulate the economy. Meaning money would not stay in the drug/black market anymore and instead be back into the general economy.

It would decrease the inmate population. Most states are in a crisis with the ever growing inmate populations. A lot of normal people are being locked up over weed. Thank God I have yet to be caught.

It would make it more sociably accepted and less frowned upon.

Alcohol is far more damaging then weed could ever be and that is a legal.

How do you feel about this and why? Lets all try and keep an open mind for this discussion please.

damn I wanted to make a poll...o wells..I clicked to quick and posted without it, damn pot head. =D

honestly not to sound rude but you remind me of me a few years back when i was a pothead....the only reason you really think its a good idea to legalize it is so you can get some without getting into any trouble but if you think about it technically its a horrible idea....i dont really have to prove any points because other posters already did that......and if weed isnt addicting than why is it that so much people go around stealing money from their parents or go selling things or robbing people for weed money......

i'd respond in here but i know you'll offer no intelligent conversation

so rather, here's a hedgehog with a cardboard tube on his head:

http://i30.tinypic.com/23ldtmb.jpg

enjoy it while you're high.

this made me die laughing and i dont even smoke lmao

Drug craving behavior? It will make people come up with the craziest ideas.

Also no drugs kill you and they aren't addictive at all; Thats just propaganda... (except alcohol which is bad)

I was going to address the issues first, but I realized that there is one major thing that first needs to be said.


What the hell gives you, or anyone else, to decide what the hell anyone puts in their own damn body?
Are you my dad? No. Not You, nor no one else, has any right to dictate what anyone does in their own time, as long as it doesn't take that same right away from others.


Honestly, what makes you think that you are so "holy" that you can decide for everybody, when this doesn't really effect you. You don't want to smoke, ok. Don't.

The complete arrogance of people. It sickens me.

What if I told you that I think that, oh, just for example, religion should be illegal(I do not think this. I think organized religion is bullshit, but religion itself is something that some people need, and other's don't. It's all up to you, and everybody should respect each other's choice in that matter. I am simply using this for arguments sake).
I mean, it gives people false hope that their loved ones will be save from a miracle. It causes people of different religions to fight, and sometimes some of those fights turn very violent and people get hurt, or killed.


I am sure many of you would not like that at all. Here I am, telling you how you can and can't peacefully live your life. Thats just wrong.

Now, first, let me link you guys to a site that collects all information it can get on all kinds of drugs. Read through. Every single thing I say here can be found on this site, supported by actual scientific studies, instead of "I just heard it from someone".
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis.shtml



No, there wouldn't be more pros than cons if weed were legalized in the USA. If weed went into the agricultural market, then it would be a major cash crop. The problem with this is that weed generates more money than fruits and vegetables, and would thus make farmers more likely to switch over to growing that crop, instead of food. We would then experience a low in agricultural production.[\quote]
Umm... how do you know this? For you to be able to actually show this, you would have to show evidence. There are very few regions in which marijuana is completely legal, and they have yet to have those problems.
You are simply pulling shit out of the air with nothing to even back up what you are saying.

[quote=GrandHustle;954518] Also, it's just sort of hard for me to imagine a "normal" person who smokes weed.
By 12th grade about 47% of Americans have smoked marijuana. It is estimated that by ~25 that well over 70% have smoked.
Just take a look outside, and chances are you'll see someone that smokes marijuana.

Meh, more inmates in jail = more opportunities for jobs for the people of America.
I had a nice detailed explanation on this, and then I erased it to say that first thing, I regret that now.
I'll make this quick and simple.

The short story of it is, this actually ends up making less job opportunities.
Heres why.

It costs to put people in jail. A lot of ****ing money. You know who pays that money? Anyone that pays taxes. That would be me, your parents, and you(if not now, later). The more people in jail, the more money that needs to be put into jail. The more money needed, the more taxes you pay. The more taxes, the less money to spend. The less money spent, the less money that gets pumped into the economy. The less money thats pumped into the economy, the worse the economy does. The worse the economy does, the less jobs there are. The less jobs there are, the less money being spent. And well, it all starts over.
Granted, there other things that also effect the economy, and those can make-up for this loss, if our taxes are spent correctly. But why waste money in a victimeless crime in the first place?

Marijuana costs over 7 billion dollars a year to keep illegal. If you legalize and tax it, you are looking at an additional 35 billion dollars to that 7 billion. That is money that you won't have to pay for. You, instead, get to keep that money yourself, and spend it on what you want(you can get more stuff, what ever it may be). You spend more, the economy gets stronger. The stronger the economy is, the more jobs there are.



Alcohol is more damaging than weed? Both are destructive and dangerous when used incorrectly, but isn't weed a lot easier to get addicted to?
Anything can be dangerous and destructive when used incorrectly. Thats a moot point.

As for addiction, it is not chemically addictive. Mentally, it is. But EVERYTHING is mentally addicting. I mean everything, from scratching a certain part of your body, to the internet. It all depends on how your brain is wired. Theres just some that get addicted to a specific thing.
But as for the chemical compounds itself, there is zero addiction levels in marijuana. The same is not true for alcohol. Alcohol is actually chemically addicting. This doesn't effect everyone, but it effects a great portion of drinkers, where as marijuana doesn't.


Lastly, it would just never be accepted by the majority of the population. There would be riots and whatnot of people wondering how our government could legalize a potentially deadly drug. I'm sure it would become a very large problem with teens as well.
No one has EVER died from marijuana. It is actually completely impossible to OD on marijuana(or, I really should say THC, because thats the active chemical). For a human to reach over-dose levels of THC they would have to have so much in their blood-stream that their blood-stream would become too deluited for it to do it's function, and end up killing you from that. Thing is, ANYTHING that you put so much into your body that it deluits your blood-stream to that point will kill you.
Second at least 50% of Americans now support legalization. There are multiple states that have put marijuana a lower priority than jay-walking. And there are already two states that are going to be voting on complete legalization of marijuana(put into the same scale as tobacco and alcohol) within the next two years.
Now where is this riot that you speak of?





You provided absolutely no cons to your argument, which shows me you do not look at the other side of the table.
I cannot take your argument into any sort of consideration if you're saying "yeah man, they should legalize weed cause of this, this, and that." as opposed to saying "sure, these are the reasons weed maybe should not be legalized, however, i strongly believe that this, this, and that might make up for it/prove better/outweigh all those other things."
That's because there is no logical reason. None. Zero.
All of these "reasons" that people have been spouting is propaganda that they have been brain-washed with which started many, many years ago.
The only reasons that could be applied to marijuana also apply to alcohol and tobacco.

Now, smoking Marijuana normally(like tobacco) does carry negative effects from the smoke. Not the THC, but the ash that floats in the air, aka: the smoke.
But if you were to, say, eat marijuana or use a vaporizer, there are in fact no negative side-effects on a fully developed brain.(brains that are still developing are very sensitive to any kind of chemical, and for that reason children should not smoke anything, take alcohol, etc.)


so in short, no don't legalize. no country needs more idiots running around braindead and out of it cause they've had a joint of weed with there buddys.

Again, another myth. That marijuana causes perment brain-damage in adults.
It doesn't.
The more you smoke, the longer it's effects stay with you, yes. And if you smoke at a young age, when your brain is still developing, it does.
What THC does to your brain is actually quite interesting.
You see, you have THC receptors in your brain. It's needed for you to be able to think. What happens is that when you smoke, you put a large amount of THC into your body, more than is normally in your body. There is far too much for the THC receptors to handle. So, to counter-act this, what your body does is it basically retracts the THC receptors. This retraction causes short-term memory to go out the window for many.
So your brain is not actually damaged. It's just temporarily turning off a few functions. Once your THC levels return to normal, these receptors return, and you are now back at your good old self.
But the more you smoke, the longer it takes for the levels to return to normal. The longer it takes for those levels to return to normal, the longer your short-term memory under preforms.

also dont go on about "oh alcohol is bad and kills people" yadda yadda... we know that already. but alcohol has a different history, thats why it is accepted.
Wait, so you're saying that because alcohol was re-legalized due to it being the "white-man's drug" at the time, where as marijuana was the "black-man's drug" at the time was left illegal, an obvious racist move, it's still alright to this day?


thats like saying "oh, I know slavery is bad, but it's already accepted so there is no point in trying to make it illegal"



And why not alcohol? It is a drug. It has killed people. It also makes many violent. Simply the consumption alone, and not anything done afterwards(aka: drunk driving) kills thousands of people.
Marijuana has yet to kill a single person.


That is like saying "guns are alright, but no knifes. Knifes are illegal because they are dangerous"

It's a ****ing hypocritical double-standard.
Or do you not care if you are a hypocrite?


if alcohol was discovered for the first time tomorrow then it would probably be illegal.
Please explain this line, because I'm trying to comprehend the meaning...





honestly not to sound rude but you remind me of me a few years back when i was a pothead....the only reason you really think its a good idea to legalize it is so you can get some without getting into any trouble but if you think about it technically its a horrible idea....i dont really have to prove any points because other posters already did that......and if weed isnt addicting than why is it that so much people go around stealing money from their parents or go selling things or robbing people for weed money......
That's not weed. That is meth, coke, and other much harder drugs.
Ofcourse, not to say that there aren't those that don't. But there are also kids that steal to play at the arcade. That doesn't mean that arcades should be illegal.




The problem is that you are all trying to blame anything BUT the person. If steal from someone, if you hurt someone, or kill someone, you should be charged with that crime.


But why should the millions that don't cause any trouble also need to be punished because a few do stupid shit?



oh, and the health benefits of marijuana
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_medical.shtml








No one, and I mean NO ONE is saying you need to smoke. No one is saying you need to take THC into your body in any kind of way. You already got a cannabinoid chemical in your body anyway. It's required for you to think, and without it you could not function correctly.
But no one has the right to tell anyone else what they do in their own time in their own privacy, as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.





But really, I'm just doing all this simply because, well, I can. Because the truth is, as this rate, marijuana will be legalized in the next 10 years. There are far too many places in which, while it may be illegal, no body enforces it. It is almost at the legalization point, and it will take only a little more pushing and it will be all over.

Weed is not addictive. alcohol is bar far addictive and deadly..Smoking weed has never been a factor of health related deaths. Alcohol thousands die every year to liver failure and so much more.

That doesn't mean we should legalize ANOTHER drug.

Oh, I also forgot to mention one thing.

In Amsterdam, where marijuana was legalized, upon legalization, the user rate dropped, not rose. But what dropped greatest was the use of much harder drugs.


Think about that.

I dont see why people shit themselves when they find out that someone else smokes weed. Weed will not kill you if you smoke 1 joint for the first time, second, third, so on.. Weed is not at all addictive but people want to smoke weed over other drugs (crack, heroin, cocain, blah blah blah) because they know that those drugs are the really bad ones and they know that they wont get addicted to weed.

So instead of getting high on a rock of crack, they can smoke a bit of weed, enjoy a few hours of everything funny, great tasting food and being relaxed without having to worry of spending their next paycheck to support their crack addiction.

When people hear the word "weed" they think of what other drugs do, like heroin and stuff, and automatically think that it'll ****ing kill you with one puff. Those people piss me off.

They legalized it in Canada for like 2 months (not sure if it still is) and there was a store in Vancouver called Da Kine that sold marijuana. The only reason I support legalizing weed is because I do enjoy the occasianal joint.

I do not abuse weed (being baked all day every day) but I do smoke it like 3 times a week (including weekend). I doubt they will legalize it in the US, but if they do... Well that'd be funny as hell.

Weed isnt a life ruining drug. Alcohol, cigarettes are way way way way wayyyyyyy more life threatening then marijuana. Hundreds of thousands of people die every year because of smoking cigarettes, and like.. less than 10 die per year because of weed.

They dont die because they smoked weed, they died because they were a dumb *** about it and drove high or something.

marijuana wont be made legal because it has been villified. alcohol is legal, despite it being more dangerous, because it has a longer and more established history in western culture.

if alcohol was discovered tomorrow and it was made illegal i would be against anyone trying to make it legal because of its dangerous side effects. but im not against it because i was born into a culture where it is already accepted as a social norm.


i guess i just dont trust people enough to be responsible if it was made legal. ive read all the info before, ive heard all the arguments (and they make sense), but i still just cant shake the fact that some people are complete twats. there are people who cant drink responsibly and there will be people who act irresponsibly if this law was ever passed.

i know i know, its not fair on the majority because of a few retards. but thats just how i feel.

im not one of those ivory tower types who label everything as a moral corruption of society though.

If it was legal, maybe you would see actual casual smokers of weed and maybe there would be a healthy and responsible handling of it.

I don't see that anywhere near me, with anyone who smokes more than a joints a year on average.

At the moment from my surrounding, it's not, not only that it leads to further substance abuse almost always.

When you smoke it regularly and abuse it, it will like any psychological active substance lead to sever personality changes. I have seen it happen, it's not beautiful to look at.

About that it doesn't kill you, I want to see one research about that, not just some link to a druggie page, however trying it may be to look serious.

About the it doesn't concern you:
That is the most stupid thing and I am getting quite pissed of with reading it so frequently.

If I see a poor guy in the streets how doesn't it concern me?
If I get badly served by a waitress in a coffee shop how doesn't it concern me?
If my bus driver is drunk, how doesn't it concern me?
If my subordinate is having a gun in his briefcase at a business meeting how doesn't that concern me?
How can my neighborhood, the world my children would grow up in, what their friends do, what the random stranger in the park I meet does, what the police does, what the government in some foreign country does and in my own not affect me every single day of my life?

Oh, right, because its to big a request for people to take up at least a little responsibility for the actions they perform and the views the represent.

If something bad actualy happens, you wouldn't be able to handle it; Some decisions are safer out of your hands.

marijuana wont be made legal because it has been villified. alcohol is legal, despite it being more dangerous, because it has a longer and more established history in western culture.
They actully have a simular starting date with their introduction into socity. It wasn't something that was simply "discovered". It was actually something that was brought over here around the time of Sir Walter Raleigh.
There were various kinds of cannabis plants through out the world. Some didn't have intoxicating effects, or as strong(hemp), but "getting high" has been something that people have been doing for over 12000 years.

Again, you are very, very wrong.
http://www.ukcia.org/research/abel.htm

The only reason liquor was made legal was to take away the power that capone and most mafia had. plus to cash in on it.

I have nothing else to say since Pretty much FabianN said everything i was going to say. I love that guy! no homo.


I do have one thing to add though, amsterdam isn't really legalized it's just decriminalized, i don't remember exactly what they do to be allowed to sell it in shops and stuff but it's not like the government cares much about it as they have done countless research and informed their citizen so they can make their own decision. You can really walk in public smoking a joint has to be in doors or certain places, you will get fine if caught.

Now let's not forget about hemp, with hemp a whole new market will be born. ALOT MORE JOBS OPEN, hemp could replace plenty of things out the. Paper,clothe,oil,soap.You name it. and cheap. Hemp is amde from the male cannabis plant(the male plant does not contain enough THC to give off a euphoric feeling. The female is the one with it all. why are all great things female?much love for women!). Why isn;t that legal?

Let's not forget our hypocritical government during WW2 and vietnam cannabis/hemp was legalized breifly.There was alot of research with the female plant on medicinal purpose, which they clearly found since they had a government funded prescription that i think 3 people to this day receive. During this short legalization the US government started a hemp farm aswell as started importing hemp from europe(mostly france). Shortly after the wars it was made illegal again.

^
| don't think that rant on the government has any revelance, but thought i'd share it anyways.

I for one support legalization, all though medicinal first, already 6 states with the newest being New mexico this year to have it legalised(medicinal use only for all 6 states). Yet Federal cancels it out and you have all these terminally ill people going to jail.EVEN THOUGH ITS LEGAL IN THEIR STATE, the people voted for it!
California is by far the most popular state that has it legalized, it's been the news quite often since they recently made a snack machine that gives you weed, provided you have a prescription(they give you a card to use to access the machine).

/rant over

Edit:I have been clean for over a year now, i use to be a heavy smoker. No trouble stopping. I stopped because of job(late shifts are a ***** people, warehouse inventory taker kills your soul!(that is if we have one) ) and school which i hope to start soon.

Thanks for that info in your post Fabiann. The links have a lot of good info. :)

They actully have a simular starting date with their introduction into socity. It wasn't something that was simply "discovered". It was actually something that was brought over here around the time of Sir Walter Raleigh.
There were various kinds of cannabis plants through out the world. Some didn't have intoxicating effects, or as strong(hemp), but "getting high" has been something that people have been doing for over 12000 years.

Again, you are very, very wrong.
http://www.ukcia.org/research/abel.htm

so how come one is legal but the other isnt.

alcohol is more established as a social norm is all im saying. thats why its a dangerous but also accepted substance.

Want legalized weed? Move to a country that give two shits about your health. Hell, our country obviously cares about our healthcare. That CLITHOR says everyone is getting healthcare if she gets into office. Sorry to go off topic.

Every once in a while, we get a post like this...they are usually filled with stupidity, and...strangely, this one seems to have some smart posts in it. I'm impressed. Maybe all the other ones finally have gotten to people.


I'm a proud smoker, toker, whatever. Let me get that out of the way first.

I don't think it should be "legal" persay. I think it should be decriminalized. Many states are discussing decriminalization, and let me break it down what that means to YOU.

If you are walking down the road with a specific amount, the cop takes it from you, and you go on your merry way. No fine, no criminal record, no nonsense. In Vermont, marijuana is going to be decriminalized for up to 1 ounce. Anyone with more than an ounce on them is blatantly intending to sell. THAT should be illegal, I agree. However, if I want to sit in my long, and take rips from my bong, I shouldn't be punished for that. I'm not hurting anyone else, I'm just having a good time.

When was the last time you heard someone get high and go home to beat their wife and kids? Never. When was the last time someone smoked too much and died? Never. It just doesn't happen. Alcohol is a MUCH worse drug than marijuana. I think the government realizes that at this point, but it will be too hard to integrate it into society legally...so thats what is keeping them from doing so. That, and they are making millions of dollars from underground drug sales each year.

Over my lifetime, I have seen nothing but (slow) progression towards legalizing a wonderful plant.

Not to mention that the cannabis plant is for much more than smoking (textile, paper, animal feed, etc) and, it is EXTREMELY cheap, AND SIMPLE TO GROW! It could cut down so much on other various waste in this country, I can't see it being "illegal" for too long.

We will see where this goes, but I strongly believe it will be "legal" by 2012. Thats just my opinion.


I don't have time to type more...I have to go to school. I'll be sure to add when I get home.

And, AS ALWAYS, should anyone have ANY QUESTIONS, about ANY illegal controlled substance, FEEL FREE TO PM ME!!!!!!!

so how come one is legal but the other isnt.

alcohol is more established as a social norm is all im saying. thats why its a dangerous but also accepted substance.

The only different is, that most people are easier accustomed to drinking fluids, than to smoke some herbs.

i agree with oister. decriminalization is a more sensible step forward.

Arguments against weed make me chuckle.

Arguments against weed make me chuckle.

What else would one expect form a 22 year old?
What the hell do you even expect of yourself?

Stupidest idea. Eva.

Though people never cease to amaze me

What else would one expect form a 22 year old?
What the hell do you even expect of yourself?

I've never actually used weed.

I just find arguments against it to always be futile and rather funny. Since there's no reason for it to be illegal, considering what IS legal.

Try again.

People need to look up information before posting it. Firstly inmates arent a result of weed, most people caught with weed just get fined. Secondly it would save us money, but it wouldn't change our economy so I don't know wtf you are talking about. We spend large quanities of money to stop people from smoking weed and selling it. I do agree that some of it should be legalized, but it is proven that it is a gateway drug and a big reason why it won't be legalized. I really hope Ronin's post was a joke cuz I couldn't really tell.

@Norrin: Hmm, you construct a relation to other things. You think that weighting evils against each other is an ethical way to generate a moralistic standpoint...

Better this time?

@lothia: Soup is cooked hotter than it's eaten, but most people who post here are kids and are for a reason by law denied to make any kind of decision on their own. Points of view change, as soon as you have some responsibility of your own and about others and actually something to loose.
People here take just to much for granted, they read somewhere or see around them.
I am not sure if you where hinting at that post though. I also think, people have to drink for survival, so it comes more natural to you.

No, I just think that it's ludicrous in this day and age to ban something that's effectively harmless, and on the contrary, has got positive medicinal uses. There's no reason to ban it, making nature illegal just seems ridiculous to me.

My morals suggest that if people want to use substances on themselves and it has nothing at ALL to do with me, then they can do so, it's nobody else's business or right to stop them. End of story. Your body, do as you wish with it, just accept the consequences.

Also, it's not proven to be a gateway drug. I know many who use weed and haven't done anything else. Also, the first drug most people actually use is alcohol or tobacco, and millions upon millions of drinkers and regular smokers still have the view that "drugs" are horrible. My mum had smoked since before I was born until recently, and she still has the blinkered view that weed is some horrible thing.

If one drug definitely leads to more, tobacco would, alcohol would, and they don't do so inherently. It's entirely up to the person.

My morals suggest that if people want to use substances on themselves and it has nothing at ALL to do with me, then they can do so, it's nobody else's business or right to stop them. End of story. Your body, do as you wish with it, just accept the consequences.

Thats where the dog finally manages to catch it's own tail is it?

If it will once would actualy affect you, I guess you will be totally prepared with any implications, as well as never ever possibly reverting your views.

Thats where the dog finally manages to catch it's own tail is it?

If it will once would actualy affect you, I guess you will be totally prepared with any implications, as well as never ever possibly reverting your views.

I've had, and do have, loved ones that use drugs. Be it weed or things more serious, but I still stand by the fact that all I have the right to is an opinion. Whether or not someone takes this into account and adheres to it or not is up to them.

I've told loved ones that my opinion is that they should quit smoking tobacco or whatever, and that failure to do so will have consequences, but at the end of the day, it's up to them. Nobody owes it to me NOT to do substances, I just don't owe it to them to not react in my own way.

That's the way it goes. Nobody deserves to be unwillingly held back in substance use, and if they choose NOT to do something, it should be because it's for a greater good and/or by their own choice. My girl used to smoke, I hate that fact and have been told by her that she hates it, all aspects of it, and her reasons for continuing on occassion (Which steadily got more regular) were entirely superficial and rather ridiculous/baseless. Now she has quit. I am not prepared to be with someone who's a smoker, so she had the option. I wasn't going to stop her from smoking if she didn't want to, but I am making it not affect me by not being with a smoker. She made the choice to stop, for example. I wasn't going to hold her back, but she realised it was going to cost her something she wanted more than smoking. I'd do the same if I were in her position.

I've got experience in these things, Ronin. I know what I'm talking about.

Thats not rely what I meant. Have your kid run over by a drunk driver for example. There is a list of possible situations and it very well includes all kind of drugs.
Watch your kid slowly die in a hospital after it had a stroke from smoking one joint and a heart failure that went undetected. Have your girlfriend find out that she just miscarried because of binge drinking, when she didn't really know she was pregnant before. Have your best friend walk out of the window in the 3rd store, because he is spaced out or drunk. Find a dieing junkie in a park when going home from being out. Etc. etc.
(All of these things happened in similar ways to people I more or less remotely know, wanna test if it is going to happen to you?)

That will stay with you the rest of your life. Things you will never be able to reverse, thats what I was talking about.
If you are lucky it will be some adult, where you can say, oh damm but it was their own choice. Mostly with real drug addicts it very much isn't.
This includes as well weed.

Thats not rely what I meant. Have your kid run over by a drunk driver for example. There is a list of possible situations and it very well includes all kind of drugs.
Watch your kid slowly die in a hospital after it had a stroke from smoking one joint and a heart failure that went undetected. Have your girlfriend find out that she just miscarried because of binge drinking, when she didn't really know she was pregnant before. Have your best friend walk out of the window in the 3rd store, because he is spaced out or drunk. Find a dieing junkie in a park when going home from being out. Etc. etc.

I thought you were smarter than to mean that, but apparently I was wrong.

If my "kid" was run over by a drunk driver, obviously I'd be devestated, but I'd be mad at the guy for being a complete and utter moron to drive drunk. I'd not be mad at alcohol.

If someone gets high and goes for a drive, they're the idiot, pot isn't to blame. These are not substances designed for harming unwilling people, killing people.

All of those examples are pathetic, and you should feel ashamed of yourself for bringing them up. Binge drinking is not the drink's fault, it's the idiot's fault. Having a stroke is just unfortunate, nobody knows what personal reaction their body will have to a drug. That's like banning soy milk because I once had an allergic reaction to it.

"It's the same old news story. 'Guy on acid, thought he could fly, jumped out of a building, what a tragedy.'...WHAT A DICK! He was a moron, he's dead, good. If he thought he could fly why didn't he try taking off from the ground? He's dead and that's good, cos now he'll quit ruining it for everyone who uses drugs responsibly, drugs that weren't actually made to harm anyone that didn't want to take it into themselves by choice.".

Bill Hicks knows the score, you clearly don't.

You are obviously way too concerned with shit that, quite frankly, is none of your business, so you descend into exaggerated hyperbole to prove a point, and still fail to prove the point. I expected more of you, I misjudged.

That will stay with you the rest of your life. Things you will never be able to reverse, thats what I was talking about.
If you are lucky it will be some adult, where you can say, oh damm but it was their own choice. Mostly with real drug addicts it very much isn't.
This includes as well weed.

Weed isn't chemically addictive, first off. Secondly, drug addicts become addicts because they made a CHOICE to use drugs, it all begins with choice. If you can't handle it, that's your fault, not the drug's.

You have such ridiculous debates on this subject, and it's proof that you've succumbed to nothing more than mainstream propaganda.

Well, you know, he might be a decent guy when being sober, but judgment goes down when you drink; Thats mainly the point of it, if I remember right.
It's also not so ****ing much different with weed, is it?

You would call a 17 year old dude that doesn't know shit about alcohol a moron, besides he doesn't know any better?
I don't want to offend you, but have you ever been drunk in your whole life?
He actually got caught by a couple of guys walking by, also drunk and didn't get a scratch. Not really worth trying out though.

About the car story what happened is a bit different, I was just to bored to lay it out in detail: A friend of mines dad, fresh founded family, responsible high school teacher, was invited over to friends for an evening with the kids. When it grew late he had a couple of glasses of win, instead one as he intended; After the first he didn't care that much anymore. He took his wife and kids to drive them home and left to crash them all into another car, nearly killing his 3 year old, who than for a couple of weeks was unstable and no one knew if he might come back. For the rest of his life his marriage had (and will have I guess, I don't life there anymore) a little ice-age feeling to it.
Junkie in the park happened to a guy I know once, in the city I study in now; quiet a simple thing.

As long as you just deny that anything unexpected happens you wont think different. That wont really safe you from it though.

I had one classmate, in high school, which had his parents divorced. He started to hang out in town all night, never came home, never went to school. When his mother found out he was doing weed, she put him to an ultimatum: Completely quit it or get the hell out of her house.
He quit, but he couldn't keep it up for long, so she threw him out (about after giving him the 3rd chance to make it).
The way he lived than wasn't all that pleasant. I could give you some scary examples about that, or similar guys from that peer group I know, but you would just call me exaggerating.

Other thing that comes to my mind was that small heroin junkie, that I met in the army; you could see how he hormonal dis balancing stopped his growth. The one day he came to me afraid about having caught on HIV, by some random girl he couldn't remember, a couple of days later he was telling everyone that he was getting a baby (pretty retarded, in a way he already had one, he wasn't that smart though, I wouldn't bet it was his though); A girlfriend from 3 years ago called him up that she had taken care of his for 2 years already without letting him know. The sight of it was so strong it nearly made me vomit; What hope is left for such a guy?
Sill I could carry on, but whats the point?
I don't care that far, it makes me sad, that you see it that way, but I can't make your decisions.
I don't think that I could allow myself to not voice my opinion about it, but this forum is full of some freaking mama-boys, that see their drama on TV.
I see enough mainstream-propaganda in my life with my own eyes.
Together with the couple of 15 year old girls on their drug-check at the local practitioner. Just listening to the way they speak and had it echo through my head for a week.

Oh, it's all such a jolly issue and so grossly exaggerated, by the dumb media and mainstream grownup tards, that want to save us from all the fun.

Well, you know, he might be a decent guy when being sober, but judgment goes down when you drink; Thats mainly the point of it, if I remember right.
It's also not so ****ing much different with weed, is it?

Yes, actually. I've been around people on both, on all kinds of drugs, and people on weed are far more tolerable and personable than any other.

A wise man once said "Here's a scenario; you're at a ball game. Someone is being violent, loud and obnoxious. Are they drunk or high on pot? Yes, everyone knows the truth, they're drunk. I've never seen anyone on pot get in a fight simply because it's ****ing impossible. They say pot makes you unmotivated? Lies. When you're high on pot you can do everything you'd normally do, you just realise it's not worth the ****ing effort.".

With exception of the last bit that was said in semi-humour, the rest is absolutely true. You clearly don't know much about the drug or what it does to people, do you?

You would call a 17 year old dude that doesn't know shit about alcohol a moron, besides he doesn't know any better?
I don't want to offend you, but have you ever been drunk in your whole life?
He actually got caught by a couple of guys walking by, also drunk and didn't get a scratch. Not really worth trying out though.

Yeah, I have been drunk. I wouldn't do it again because it's not for me. If it's for you, have at it. None of my business, just don't be a moron and just be responsible with it. Don't go out and get so drunk that you cannot safely make it home, and most certainly don't drive. If you do either, you shouldn't be drinking, it's not the fault of anyone else, or the drink.

About the car story what happened is a bit different, I was just to bored to lay it out in detail: A friend of mines dad, fresh founded family, responsible high school teacher, was invited over to friends for an evening with the kids. When it grew late he had a couple of glasses of win, instead one as he intended; After the first he didn't care that much anymore. He took his wife and kids to drive them home and left to crash them all into another car, nearly killing his 3 year old, who than for a couple of weeks was unstable and no one knew if he might come back. For the rest of his life his marriage had a little ice-age feeling to it.

Then he's not a "responsible" teacher is he? He's an irresponsible idiot who misused alcohol and it cost him and his family trauma. How is that the fault of drink, and not the fault of a moron? He intended to have one, he couldn't control himself and he paid the price, it's his fault.

You wanna know what unwilling people suffer from more than ANYTHING else in the world? Idiocy and irresponsibility. Not drugs.

Junkie in the park happened to a guy I know once, in the city I study in now; quiet a simple thing.

So? I have high-flying city workers in my family, and due to my time working in the city I've seen these high-class parties that drug use DOES occur in. These people still work today and still earn shit loads of cash. It goes to both extremes. Using drugs does not automatically lead to addiction, loss of job and death. Don't dabble in one extreme if you can't handle the fact that there's another.

As long as you just deny that anything unexpected happens you wont think different. That wont really safe you from it though.

What's your argument, Ronin? Unexpected things can happen on drugs? Yes, and? I'm aware.

All the examples you've given are either idiotic irresponsibility or unfortunate circumstance. Those are not the drugs' fault. If you drink and drive it's nobody's fault but yours.

I had one classmate, in high school, which had his parents divorced. He started to hang out in town all night, never came home, never went to school. When his mother found out he was doing weed, she put him to an ultimatum: Completely quit it or get the hell out of her house.
He quit, but he couldn't keep it up for long, so she threw him out (about after giving him the 3rd chance to make it).
The way he lived than wasn't all that pleasant. I could give you some scary examples about that, or similar guys from that peer group I know, but you would just call me exaggerating.

So what? I could give you examples of rich men who do coke, have lovely families and amazing jobs. It doesn't mean a thing, there's a whole slew of outcomes.

You are just focusing on the negative outcomes, most of which have occured because the people you know are irresponsible.

Other thing that comes to my mind was that small heroin junkie, that I met in the army; you could see how he hormonal dis balancing stopped his growth. The one day he came to me afraid about having caught on HIV, by some random girl he couldn't remember, a couple of days later he was telling everyone that he was getting a baby (pretty retarded, in a way he already had one, he wasn't that smart though); A girlfriend from 3 years ago called him up that she had taken care of his for 2 years already without letting him know. The sight of it was so strong it nearly made me vomit; What hope is left for such a guy?
Sill I could carry on, but whats the point?

Yes, but how is that the fault of heroin, and not of a complete idiot? What are you hoping to achieve with this? Your arguments are not gaining you any ground here.

I don't care that far, it makes me sad, that you see it that way, but I can't make your decisions.
I don't think that I could allow myself to not voice my opinion about it, but this forum is full of some freaking mama-boys, that see their drama on TV.
I see enough mainstream-propaganda in my life with my own eyes.

No, you see irresponsible people. I have seen bad things regarding drugs, I've seen good things regarding drugs. There are a million and one outcomes, so you're very foolish to suggest that the only thing to come of drugs is; lose job, lose family, **** your life up.

You're entirely wrong, fact. That's not the way it always goes.

yeah blaming the substance rather than the person is completely backward.

its like whenever im out with friends like on friday or something there is always at least one guy who has had way too much to drink and is getting violent, either with other patrons or with the door staff. and i just think to myself, for gods sake, if you know you are going to turn into a violent idiot or if you know that after a few drinks you are going to be a danger to yourself then either dont do it or prepare to face the consequences. its all down to the individual.

ronin i can see what you are trying to get at, but personal experiences with individuals dont apply to everyone all at once. it just goes to show that its down to the individual to make their own choices. if they know they are weak willed well then they should be aware of what they are setting themselves up for.

Want me to split it down? Nah, I don't feel like that.
Also not like going in cycles endlessly.

You see it the way you want it because you like it to be that way.

Pretty much no one of the examples had a real choice what to do. I guess you would have been one of those who had told them, that drugs are a nice way to solve their problems, best fit to help them at the moment.
Also the innocent bystander role would fit you good, it's their own problem right?

I don't feel like arguing it out though, enough posts stacked up for today. At least I now know that every irresponsibility you might take up, is really the fault of your own ignorance, might it be increased by whatever you decide to take or not.

Its still those who win the lottery in life, for whom everything magically works, we care about, just by pure chance, right? Those who fall through that gird, let them burn.

You made yourself look so unlikable by now, it's an easy decision to just not care about your concerns or ideas for the time being.

@Deimos: Some People just decide not to open their ****ing eyes, but stick their heads into the sand for the sake of it. There are enough people out there, that have a hard time to learn to read and write. They can't make decisions, or "treat the drug the way it should be (wtf is that)", also teens aren't able to estimate the range of their decisions, they just ****ing can't physically, they are goddamn kids that have no grasp of what they are doing.
You think a 15 year old knows how to "responsibly" treat weed, or drinking beer?
Look around, there are more mature people that have no idea about life.

Just blame it on the individual, gives you a good feeling if something happens. If you are wrong you are to blame for all of it, though.

Want me to split it down? Nah, I don't feel like that.
Also not like going in cycles endlessly.

You see it the way you want it because you like it to be that way.

This coming from a guy who wants to believe the experience he's had is all there is, fairly hypocritical.

Your examples fail. They're examples of human idiocy, not drugs being inherently bad.

Pretty much no one of the examples had a real choice what to do. I guess you would have been one of those who had told them, that drugs are a nice way to solve their problems, best fit to help them at the moment.

What are you on about? None of them had a choice. The man was FORCED to drink more wine than he intended, knowing he would drive? Oh give it a rest, Ronin. You really don't have any idea what you're talking about.

I don't even do drugs, I have done, but now I don't. They're simply not for me, personal choice. Do them if you want to, don't do them if you don't want to, that's the way it goes. Now you're reaching for worst case scenarios because your argument fails.

Also the innocent bystander role would fit you good, it's their own problem right?

What are you TALKING about? Are you high?

I don't feel like arguing it out though, enough posts stacked up for today. At least I now know that every irresponsibility you might take up, is really the fault of your own ignorance, might it be increased by whatever you decide to take or not.

Yes, precisely, that is 100% right. Irresponsibility is the problem, not drugs.

Its still those who win the lottery in life, for whom everything magically works, we care about, just by pure chance, right? Those who fall through that gird, let them burn.

WHY oh WHY are you interpreting doing drugs as falling through the grid? I know someone who does cocaine, they happen to be one of the best, most respected lawyers in all of the Southern United Kingdom. You do not automatically fail at life and become a homeless guy or girl cos you did drugs. It's about responsibility and knowing your limits.

Can drugs go bad? Yes. That's not all there is, and I suggest life experience and/or research before you reply, because it's evident you know nothing. Oh wait, isn't that George Harrison in your avatar? It looks like him, I could be wrong. If it is, I'll leave you to appreciate the hypocricy.

You made yourself look so unlikable by now, it's an easy decision to just not care about your concerns or ideas for the time being.

So go away then, why are you still here? I'm spitting facts, you're spitting what you perceive of drugs from TV and one-sided experience.

@Deimos: Some People just decide not to open their ****ing eyes, but stick their heads into the head for the sake of it.

Like you.

Just blame it on the individual, gives you a good feeling if something happens. If you are wrong you are to blame for all of it, though.

Oh give it a rest and get a clue.

No legalizing of weed.

When you legalize something you show accept to drugs. It is harming, harming as alcohol and tobacco.

But why, and I seriosly mean WHY!? Why make our societies worse than they already are. If you legalize weed then you just legalize another sosicety destructor... Why would we do that? Do we like our childrens to go around and smoke weed?

No legalizing of weed.

When you legalize something you show accept to drugs. It is harming, harming as alcohol and tobacco.

But why, and I seriosly mean WHY!? Why make our societies worse than they already are. If you legalize weed then you just legalize another sosicety destructor... Why would we do that? Do we like our childrens to go around and smoke weed?

If you knew anything about the issue you would know that all of what you have just said has been scientifically proven to be false. Sorry to sound harsh, but it's true.

props for quoting Noam Chomsky in your sig btw.

Can drugs go bad? Yes. That's not all there is, and I suggest life experience and/or research before you reply, because it's evident you know nothing. Oh wait, isn't that George Harrison in your avatar? It looks like him, I could be wrong. If it is, I'll leave you to appreciate the hypocricy.

Well cant go away on this one:
On falling trough the gird, I meant those falling through the gird.

That includes especially all those who fell through it because of drugs.

Those who didn't it doesn't.

It's fairly simple.

You advocate the pleasure of hypothetical others (or real ones for that matter, just mot yourself) for which it works out, with plainly sacrificing those for which it doesn't.

Thats what law is about: protecting the weak and especially those who are unable to protect them self. That means no one from your definition, so laws aren't needed.

You do nothing, but say, that pleasure of some (however big the group you assume to be), is worth the suffering of many.
Make those people who have a bad life even more miserable.

Responsible considerate point of view. I congratulate you to your maturity.

You where right on your assumption though. I also totally not feel like a hypocrite.

I've smoked weed once in my life.Yes it did feel good for a short time.I must've smoked some crappy kind because I didn't get hungry after I smoked it.But I don't want legalization of weed.Only because the fact that drug abuse has almost killed off the relationships that I once had with friends and most of my family.

I only say that because its a personal thing for me at least.

If you knew anything about the issue you would know that all of what you have just said has been scientifically proven to be false. Sorry to sound harsh, but it's true.

props for quoting Noam Chomsky in your sig btw.

So what you are saying is; weed isn't harming?

Let me tell you this. A very close one of my friends is mentaly ill. He has been smoking for quite some time though.

I've actualy read up on weed. It is harming. It's a fact, and unless you are a professor yourself, you will never be able to say whether or not weed is as harming as alcohol and tobacco. There are always people who say it isn't and people who say it is. I'm one of those who say it is.

It's not a secret. Weed can get addictive too. Weed will make your brain function more bad. Weed also have an effect on your lungs.

It is harming. And I can't see why people would like to see another harming stuff in our society. As if we havn't got enough of the drugs, alcohol and tobacco.

TYes, precisely, that is 100% right. Irresponsibility is the problem, not drugs.


Legalization would allow irresponsible people easier access to another substances that could alter there already impaired judgment, but of course you have already thought of that I imagine. Your opponents would continuously argue this fact.

This topic like firearms is a double edged sword there are pro's and con's.

:hmm:

I would say, it's much easier fighting drugs than fighting irresponsibility.

EDIT: Thanks for the props Shadowsworn :-)

Dan, the point is, if you cater to the idiots and the irresponsible, the responsible will suffer and the bill is going to be pretty high.

It's not like guns where if someone uses the actual item irresponsibly (Which exists to kill), someone will get seriously injured or die, it's like someone smoking weed in their room is now a "criminal", simply because the government want to stop idiots "misusing" an ESSENTIALLY harmless drug.

Well cant go away on this one:
On falling trough the gird, I meant those falling through the gird.

That includes especially all those who fell through it because of drugs.

Those who didn't it doesn't.

It's fairly simple.

So what's your argument? Drugs CAN go bad, so what? All the examples you've given are of irresponsibility, not drugs going bad.

You advocate the pleasure of hypothetical others (or real ones for that matter, just mot yourself) for which it works out, with plainly sacrificing those for which it doesn't.

I advocate whatever people want to do to their own bodies so long as nobody else is unwillingly harmed by it or forced to do it. If you don't want to do it, don't. What's the issue?

Thats what law is about: protecting the weak and especially those who are unable to protect them self. That means no one from your definition, so laws aren't needed.

The law is clearly also about restrictions that needn't be there, like weed being illegal. Probably cos anyone can farm it and therefore the government can't make a profit, might be one of the reasons.

How did you get that from my post? Because I feel that people should be allowed to do what they want to their own bodies, and your examples are samples of idiocy and not bad drugs, how do you assume I feel laws are not necessary? Are you purposefully trying to be stupid? Besides, two drugs that kill more than any other drug, two drugs that are SOCIALLY ACCEPTED, are legal. Tobacco and alcohol.

If weed is illegal, those should be first to go.

The problem with drugs is that people like you lump them all together. Pot...AND CRACK. Ehhh, they're not the same, bro.

You do nothing, but say, that pleasure of some (however big the group you assume to be), is worth the suffering of many.
Make those people who have a bad life even more miserable.

What are you talking about? Seriously, what are you on about? You're just rambling.

Responsible considerate point of view. I congratulate you to your maturity.

The fact (Yes, fact) is that you lack life experience. You clearly have a sheltered and blinkered view of what drugs are and what they mean, so you should not be in this discussion.

You where right on your assumption though. I also totally not feel like a hypocrite.

Is it George Harrison or not? Answer my question, because it's relevant to the debate, unless you're scared to, because you know what I'll say.

I've actualy read up on weed. It is harming. It's a fact, and unless you are a professor yourself, you will never be able to say whether or not weed is as harming as alcohol and tobacco. There are always people who say it isn't and people who say it is. I'm one of those who say it is.

Go grab the death toll and disease toll for weed users vs tobacco and alcohol users.

Let's have some fun. Actually, I'll save you the time.

Weed: 0 deaths. The others: Can't count that high.

It's not a secret. Weed can get addictive too. Weed will make your brain function more bad. Weed also have an effect on your lungs.

SMOKING, then, is your issue. You don't get lung cancer from eating weed in a cake.

Secondly, weed is factually and scientifically not chemically addictive. That's scientific fact.

Brb, just doing the moonwalk over everyone's argument.

Is it George Harrison

Can you read?
You where right on your assumption though. I also totally not feel like a hypocrite.

You make me repeat myself.

or not? Answer my question,


You like to repeat yourself as well, let me repeat another time:
Can you read?
You where right on your assumption though. I also totally not feel like a hypocrite.

because it's relevant to the debate

I am a superficial guy, just in for the looks, the sound, about the rest I don't care. Even not that much actually, but you saying that their music sucks, makes listening to it a whole new experiance of joy.
Also see above and here again repeated:
I also totally not feel like a hypocrite.

, unless you're scared to,


I still feel superior to you intellectually, so why would I care about your opinion on it.


because you know what I'll say.

See the above.

Nice to see you still are just in for the thing itself, I guess you are pretty superficial as well.

@Mods: if this is an offensive way to post, please ban Norrin. Besides that I would not get agitated if this needs to be edited.

Let's have some fun. Actually, I'll save you the time.

Weed: 0 deaths. The others: Can't count that high.

Did I talk about deaths? Nice try though :-)



SMOKING, then, is your issue. You don't get lung cancer from eating weed in a cake.

Secondly, weed is factually and scientifically not chemically addictive. That's scientific fact.

I know people who are having lung problems. They do not smoke. Their health generaly is alright, but they have problems with their lungs.

Again I wasn't talking about lung cancer. Nice try though :-)

''Cannabis has psychoactive and physiological effects when consumed, usually by smoking or ingestion.'' Wikipedia

These effect vary. Some people get addicted to cannabis others don't. Others get mentally illness. Others don't.

Nice try though

You shouldn't say that, thats Norrins douchy way to say he wont stop posting for the next 5 hours.

Children, please, this is a debate about weed, not me.

Can you read?


You make me repeat myself.



You like to repeat yourself as well, let me repeat another time:
Can you read?




I am a superficial guy, just in for the looks, the sound, about the rest I don't care. Even not that much actually, but you saying that their music sucks, makes listening to it a whole new experiance of joy.
Also see above and here again repeated:

So you're aware that George Harrison indulged in copious amounts of drugs far more dangerous than weed during his time in The Beatles, yes?

You're aware that together with Lennon and McCartney, him and Starr more or less made L.S.D. famous?

What drop outs and unsuccessful, life-ruined bums those guys turned out to be, right? It appears you're still a fan. I call hypocrite.

I still feel superior to you intellectually, so why would I care about your opinion on it.

Sticking feathers up your *** doesn't make you an actual chicken, but if it makes you sleep at night, keep telling yourself that. I'm here to discuss weed and laws regarding drugs, you're here to evidently ***** and moan because your debate has been dispatched and you lack life-experience. Either stick to the topic or don't speak. If you have to tell yourself you're smarter than me because you can't prove it, then the point is proven.

Instead of trying to be smarter, how about going and learning about drugs and their effects? Because this is what's needed.

@Mods: if this is an offensive way to post, please ban Norrin. Besides that I would not get agitated if this needs to be edited.

Oh please. Talk about a cry for help. I've not done anything to warrant a ban, you're just agitated because you don't know enough to debate about the subject.

Did I talk about deaths? Nice try though :-)

You said that unless you're a professor, you cannot say whether or not weed is or isn't more harmful than tobacco or alcohol. I'd say the FACT that it hasn't killed anyone, Vs the two drugs that kill the most, is pretty hardcore fact in your face about which one is less harmful, son.

I know people who are having lung problems. They do not smoke. Their health generaly is alright, but they have problems with their lungs.

Again I wasn't talking about lung cancer. Nice try though :-)

I WAS talking about lung cancer, what's your point? Do you have hardcore proof that weed caused their lung problems, or is this just scrambling for things to say?

''Cannabis has psychoactive and physiological effects when consumed, usually by smoking or ingestion.'' Wikipedia

These effect vary. Some people get addicted to cannabis others don't. Others get mentally illness. Others don't.

Wikipedia? You mean that public encyclopedia that anyone can edit? Get a valid source. Although, I'll run with it. Cannabis has psychoactive and physiological effects."...erm...yes? What's your point? That doesn't suggest that it is addictive, because it's factually not. Proven fact that it's not chemically addictive.

Insert Apu catchphrase here.

ROFL!

Ronin was right.

I'm outta here.

Ok, moving on from the immaturity. Does anybody have anything intelligent or knowledgeable to say about weed or drug laws?

We're running a bit thin. So far we have Deimos, Fabian and a few others.

Let's attempt to structure the debate.

Answer the following questions in your replies:

Do you feel drugs should be legalised totally, not at all or only specific drugs?

Why? (In reference to whatever the above answer was).

What do you think would be the positives and negatives of whatever the answer to your original question was?

And let's try to avoid silliness involving people blaming the drugs for drunk driving or general idiocy. Let's focus on the actual substances here. I personally believe that the biggest problem with drugs is the way they are dealt, and that legalisation would cause a lot of the dealers to die out, as well as being able to keep track of who bought what, and making sure it's not cut with any brick powder or dangerous shit. People aren't miraculously going to want to be drug users just because they are newly legal, but the premise is that people who want to experiment with their body and substances will be free to do so without being criminals and risking jail time.

My opinion on the subject, anyone else?

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis.shtml

In reply to every single idiocy posted here

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis.shtml


As I said before, they collect studies. Instead of having to spend all day googling for the scientific studies, you can go here. They will link to them.
The top section is all of that information compressed to make it quick and easy to get, but if you scroll down you will find hundreds of links to scientific studies. They are not works of their own. They touch every single point.
It's nothing more than a collection of information(all of which has a qualified source)


Don't tell me that the straight edges are more lazy than the stoners too click on a couple links...

Let's attempt to structure the debate.

You really wouldn't lay it of for a couple of minutes...

Your superficiality is really getting to me now, we should be Internet **** buddies.

Pro tip: learn how to structure a post before you attempt something that big, like a
debate.

(Nah, I know I am not a pro just exaggerating my abilities)

Good luck with your
debate.
though, the one you are so unable to let glide out of your hands you must post a followup to any post in it.

you know what I mean?
the debate.

You really wouldn't lay it of for a couple of minutes...

Your superficiality is really getting to me now, we should be Internet **** buddies.

Pro tip: learn how to structure a post before you attempt something that big, like a


(Nah, I know I am not a pro just exaggerating my abilities)

Good luck with your

though, the one you are so unable to let glide out of your hands you must post a followup to any post in it.

you know what I mean?

Are you seriously that bitter that you've been handled? Why can't you just chill and intelligently debate the subject, or admit you got it wrong? You're the one trolling now, we're trying to have a discussion. Participate or leave. You failed.

Good links, Fab.

The funny thing is, I am more or less straight edge. Not because I shunned drugs without experience, they're just not for me. Tried it, wasn't for me, but it seems to be a shocker these days. If you do not condemn drugs, you MUST be a stoner or someone stupid.

That's Ronin's theory anyway.

we're trying to have a discussion. Participate or leave.

You hardly ever where...

That's Ronin's theory anyway.

You give the impression as if what you said below represents what I said, but it's just what you thought I intended to say.

The funny thing is, I am more or less straight edge. Not because I shunned drugs without experience, they're just not for me. Tried it, wasn't for me, but it seems to be a shocker these days. If you do not condemn drugs, you MUST be a stoner or someone stupid.

It's wrong.

Drugs, weed, the laws that cover them, Ronin;

Do you actually have anything to say that isn't completely misinformed or...wrong?

Drugs, weed, the laws that cover them, Ronin;

Do you actually have anything to say that isn't completely misinformed or...wrong?

No, no I would never intended to say coke wasn't the most most deadly drug there is, as we all can see, the capacity on the subject already has issued one case that certainly proves me wrong.

This propaganda I pick up from all sides through the media, it makes my head hurt soo much.

So I can all tell you, whilst agreeing with Norrin big time, I see no dangers in using coke and you can be a working member of society for a very long time, which is not at all linked to the fact that you try to hide your addiction, because in that case no one would know about it, right?

I hope I got that right, did I?

@FabianN, about the page you listed, I worked trough a couple of studies, are you buying that stuff they say there?
Alone from being absolutely unable to interpret any of those studies, all they say is they checked for something specific and didn't find it.
Thats not very reassuring,
Its also providing a false feeling of security, if you know what I mean.

There are lots of perfectly legal drugs that are easy to get, use and abuse that are much worse than "weed". Ever see a meth head? You don't want to. Most people think that the plant its' self is dangerous when it's not. People adding stuff to it is what makes it stronger. The basic core ingredient grows naturally, hell the natives to this country use to smoke it all the time and were happy and peacefull.

People make such a big deal out of all the wrong things. I really could care less about making it legal here in the US. There's already plenty of places it is legal.

No, no I would never intended to say coke wasn't the most most deadly drug there is, as we all can see, the capacity on the subject already has issued one case that certainly proves me wrong.

This propaganda I pick up from all sides through the media, it makes my head hurt soo much.

So I can all tell you, whilst agreeing with Norrin big time, I see no dangers in using coke and you can be a working member of society for a very long time, which is not at all linked to the fact that you try to hide your addiction, because in that case no one would know about it, right?

Who said there were no dangers? I simply said there is way more to drugs than you clearly know, and way more outcomes than you are aware of. Why are you being so desperately childish? You're like a kid with his rattle taken away.

Furthermore, he's not an addict, the person I was referring to. He actually has total control over his usage. Some people do not, some people hate the drug, it's expensive, but all I'm proving is that you are one-sided because you simply do not have enough knowledge to debate drugs.

@FabianN, about the page you listed, I worked trough a couple of studies, are you buying that stuff they say there?
Alone from being absolutely unable to interpret any of those studies, all they say is they checked for something specific and didn't find it.
Thats not very reassuring,
Its also providing a false feeling of security, if you know what I mean.

Oh, you're one of those.

Just keeps denying facts.

People make such a big deal out of all the wrong things. I really could care less about making it legal here in the US. There's already plenty of places it is legal.

Like in the Netherlands, where on friend of mine nearly died from it. The reason was he was stupid.

Also I don't think that the doctor was right blaming weed, he must have been some kind of quack.
Whatever it was I am just glad it went away, bad thing is, that he now has that bother of a quack on his ***, scaring him away from starting again. The only problem would be getting rid of being stupid and the Quack. He easily could do as much as he wants again.

Oh, did you all know Norrin has a practitioners license. He told me that that this doctor must have been a quack right away, I am glad, it was so scary...
He has all the facts, you know.

Like in the Netherlands, where on friend of mine nearly died from it. The reason was he was stupid.

Also I don't think that the doctor was right blaming weed, he must have been some kind of quack.
Whatever it was I am just glad it went away, bad thing is, that he now has that bother of a quack on his ***, scaring him away from starting again, the only problem would be getting rid of being stupid and he easily could do as much as he wants again.

Oh, did you all know Norrin has a practitioners license. He told me that that this doctor must have been a quack right away, I am glad, it was so scary...

Ok, ok. I get it, here:

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/11/10/22911011.jpg

Can those of us with knowledge actually continue with the thread now, please?

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/11/10/22911011.jpg


Ty doctor, Norrin...
Always there with a quick diagnosis and solution.

With knowledge, he means that thing, that my stupid friend hasn't.
He should have used it to smoke weed, without it, it's not as much boosting your health as with it.

Continuing with the thread:

Answer the following questions in your replies.

Do you feel drugs should be legalised totally, not at all or only specific drugs?

Why? (In reference to whatever the above answer was).

What do you think would be the positives and negatives of whatever the answer to your original question was?

Continuing with the thread:

I am seriously not sure now, do you have to have "knowledge" to do it or not, can it actually be harmful without, because there is obviously no known evidence of it ever having harmed a pinguin (seriousely harmed. I heard it's bad for frogs, but they also like it, so its not that bad).

I think it should be legal to make addicts happy. Share the happiness! More happy people would mean, that the production of smiles would rise upwards 80%.

Also "knowledge"="health".

Why legalize weed?This topic contains high levels of drugs.

Let's smoke it instead!

Why legalize weed?This topic contains high levels of drugs.

Let's smoke it instead!

just get your subscription for your monthly dose of "knowledge", to cure your "stupid" and you will be able to fully benefit from the health benefits of the great weed.

Ask Doktor Norrin, he is the only one who has it.

This is how you prove you are intellectually superior to anyone? By childishly throwing a tantrum, disrupting the thread as a result, because you were proven to know nothing?

I am seriously not sure now, do you have to have "knowledge" to do it or not, can it actually be harmful without, because there is obviously no known evidence of it ever having harmed a pinguin (seriousely harmed. I heard it's bad for frogs, but they also like it, so its not that bad).

I think it should be legal to make addicts happy. Share the happiness! More happy people would mean, that the production of smiles would rise upwards 80%.

Also "knowledge"="health".

Yeah, and knowing someone who was an idiot because he drank too much wine and tried to drive doesn't equal knowledge. Knowledge equals knowledge, experience equals knowledge.

You actually don't know anything about drugs, nor do you have anything mature or sensible to contribute. So either buck up your attitude or I'll report you to a mod.

Also, there are not weed "addicts", technically and scientifically speaking.

Also, there are not weed "addicts", technically and scientifically speaking.

Hmm, thought you where a doctor, not a milkman.
Technically and scientifically speaking? I don't know how I should say anything about that, as coming from you it's instant and proved "knowledge".

I forgot,
the debate.
is important, its what its all about.

I'll be captainsensiblefair enough and not disturb your posting the same things over and over again. Spreading the "knowledge" is important. All those posts bringing up so much new knowledge lately, that hasn't been said before, it's all great against the "stupid". Especially when you repeat it a lot. We all like repeating, don't we?

What is it you want? A hug? A girlfriend? What?

What is it you want? A hug? A girlfriend? What?

Hahaha, cheapshot. You are adopted...

when 24 hour drinking was introduced in britain they said that it would foster a new and responsible mediterranean type of drinking culture.

what happened was that only a fairly small percentage of places opted to go for the full 24 hour extension and some just extended their licence by like a couple of hours.

even so, binge drinking and drink problems increased overnight. drink related violence didnt increase, but binge drinking did.

i know weed and alcohol are two very different things but i just dont think (in the UK at least) people are responsible enough for weed to be made totally legal. maybe in america its different, it seems like everyone smokes weed across the pond, but i think you got to look at different cultures... well, differently.

its just that every teenager who smokes cigarrettes now, if weed became legal, theres a pretty good chance they would want to get in on the new fad. i know that might sound a bit like grab onto your handbags and panic because socety is collapsing type of statement but i think that some people need to be protected from themselves.

when 24 hour drinking was introduced in britain they said that it would foster a new and responsible mediterranean type of drinking culture.

what happened was that only a fairly small percentage of places opted to go for the full 24 hour extension and some just extended their licence by like a couple of hours.

even so, binge drinking and drink problems increased overnight. drink related violence didnt increase, but binge drinking did.

i know weed and alcohol are two very different things but i just dont think (in the UK at least) people are responsible enough for weed to be made totally legal. maybe in america its different, it seems like everyone smokes weed across the pond, but i think you got to look at different cultures... well, differently.

its just that every teenager who smokes cigarrettes now, if weed became legal, theres a pretty good chance they would want to get in on the new fad. i know that might sound a bit like grab onto your handbags and panic because socety is collapsing type of statement but i think that some people need to be protected from themselves.

I'm an adult, I don't need people to protect me from substances. I can protect or indulge as I wish. Many others would argue the same thing.

I live in East London, and that's the exact truth of it, Deimos. You may feel people are too stupid and irresponsible, I may agree, but alcohol is entirely more dangerous, and easy to misuse. How do you misuse weed? Weed isn't new here, and people who don't WANT to try it wouldn't miraculously love weed out of it being legal.

wow...i can see that this topic is going to get pretty big but yea... i think that it should be legalized to tell you the truth. i myself smoke it, and yea, i guess i can be real w/ saying that has something to do w/ it but i can also be honest when i say that thats not the only reason. alot of people smoke weed to just goof around or for a good laugh to to just feel good and im not saying to i don't that too but i've also actually did experiments w/ myself when i was high. i had to do 7 reports for my english class 1 page each. i sat there at my computer and typed those bad boys for a couple hours and i came up w/ really good stuff not retarded stuff, i thought up of stuff that i absolutely possitively w/out a doubt in my mind that i couldn't have thought up of when i was sober. after awhile i checked how many reports i had done and i thought i had did 4 but i looked over and i had done 5! i was pretty damn happy. i didn't do any previous work before that night so i kno it wasn't done that day.

my second experiment was getting up for school... i have this thing called Senioritis. many have probably heard about it. i'm late for school about 3 times a week. as many people who smoke weed either makes time go by really slow or really fast.i find that for some reason it takes the most time smokin it and then after that time goes by slow. i dk how other peoples "trips" or whatever yo u wanna call em all but thats how it is for me. but i noticed that if i did it before i went to bed i woke up at like 6:30 in the morning giving me plenty of time to get up and get ready for school.

3rd-i notice that when i smoke and when im high of course that i see things in a different way... now most of you are like YEA SURE YOU'RE HIGH RETARD but no not that way... i look at things more closely down to every detail. i notice things that i wouldn't normally notice. i can just zone in on one thing and realize how much i've missed when i looked at it before. or i can just be sitting there and theres at least once in awhile that i like to sit back and reflect on my thoughts. i find that when i smoke weed that i can relax my body (not into a state in oblivion that i don't kno wtf is going on) but i can relax it so that i can reflect upon them in a way i don't normally do but it helps alot more and i feel a lot more calmer after i reflect upon them than i would normally.

cons?... i'll let the other people do that cuz i really can't think of any

Most people in america base their decision on why marajuana is bad because it isn't legal. therefore they call it a drug of course. but when it comes to using it as medicine theres a good number of hospitals that are all for it. I really don't see it as a drug if it is legalized in other countrys. i see it as a law like... you can't drink till you're 21. or smoke till you're 18! whereas smoking and drinking alcohol can be extremely addictive marajuana is not... i smoked weed for 2 weeks every day straight, my friends like to hook me up :D... but i had some of my own and i smoked about a bowl last night, and i didn't feel any craving. to tell you the god honest truth i was bored, my lighter fell to bits and pieces so i stopped smoking lol. If i was addicted i would have walked 2 mins up the road and borrowed my friends lighter and continued smoking till my heart was content. so this is my arguement on why weed isn't all so bad as everyone thinks it is... im not saying it isn't bad in the long run but im saying that if alcohol and cigs can be legalized in america then why can't weed.

thank you

The first couple pages contain a very good lesson.

That lesson is: Think for yourself. Read, get experience. But listening to a bunch of stuck up politicians who will approve anything for a fee (Prescription drugs which can often be more harmful than some illegal hard drugs).

Theres not much to add to Fabians big *** post. He covered most of it. But actually a chemical overdose of Marijuana theoretically is possible. As i recall (and this wasn't some dude walking up to me, it was a study done) you need to smoke about 1500 pounds of marijuana in a period of a hour. Try that. Besides, I'm pretty sure you would pass out before you even cover a whole percentage of that without rushing it.

Now if you want to talk about smoking it sure it has some negative effects but not enough to actually kill you, or change your daily lifestyle. You won't see a guy lugging around a canister with tubes going up his nose.



Now than not to say Marijuana hasn't been the cause of peoples deaths. Now guess how it has... Stop reading and think for a bit...


Well there was this guy during Prohibition. Guy by the name of Al Capone which you probably heard about and if not go back to your friggin history class already... Now alcohol was illegal, but people still wanted it. The demand for it was still there, and who can blame you? The early 1920's was full of fresh immigrants and drinking was a very social thing in Europe.

Now if you can get past the police, and agents and get a hold of this guess what you get? You get a ton of money. A **** ton of money. Al Capone was in control of 10'000 speakeasies in his life of a gangster. Speakeasies were places often you would find in the back of stores, barbershops, warehouses, and other places where you presented a card or password and you got in a room full of middle class and rick folk, drinking.

So whats the point? Well we all know what Al Capone was. A gangster. Al Capone controlled all those Speakeasies BECAUSE he killed the competition off, and it still happens with illegal drugs. You see deals go down all the time. My friends dad used to be a Crack Dealer and is in jail. Why? Because when it comes to getting caught you'll make sure you put a bullet in the head of anyone who could make that happen. So we now know that any product illegal or legal when it has a demand someone will provide it. If money can be made you know someones gonna do it. And its pretty easy when your one of the few doing it with something that rakes billions of dollars


Now can't you take em out? YES! But its not exactly so easy. Lets say theres a Columbian drug lord. He has three men who help him distribute it. They send cocaine out. Lets say one of em is responsible in getting shipments to miami, another to New york, and maybe one needs to get it up through mexico to LA. Doesn't really matter.

Well coke is illegal and if know what that guy is doing, we would try to stop him? And most would think that if you take out the guy who runs the whole deal (The drug lord, The Don of a mafia family, etc.) its sure to crash.

WRONG! Because now what you have is three people left with this massive drug empire and only ONE of them is gonna get it. So now you have a drug war. Drug wars can be very gruesome. Rape, Killings, Torture, and not the people who are trying to get it. Whole villages have been wiped out over these.

If it was legal we could keep a better eye on it, and put those people out of business, or at least make it harder.

Wait, did you just suggest marijuana has killed people because drug wars do? No, drug wars have, men have, weed hasn't.

The best part of that post, however, is the last part. The worst thing about drugs, as I've said, is how they are dealt and handled. Legalising them would, in time, erase street dealing.

I don't smoke weed, yet I view it should be legalized. When was the last time you heard somebody dying from marijuana? When was the last time you heard somebody dying from cigarettes? Weigh the percentages, here. I hear about people dying because of (smoking) cigarettes way more than somebody dying because of (smoking) weed.

Technically, you can't get addicted to weed. Theres no nicotine in them, unlike cigarettes. That natural crave for it, is like you craving a snack. Addiction rate is 10% for weed.

Check this, guys.

http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pop/conflicts.htm

That shows the top 10 pros and cons of weed.

About the whole ordeal of cash crops;

Cash crops don't exist anymore. Everything is grown evenly, and needed semi-evenly. We have the land and resources to grow our own sh*t, nowadays.

"Imagine a world where pot is legal? Hungry, happy, high people everywhere. Everyone's ordering pizza, Dominos delivery guys are stuck in traffic, therefore free pizzas for all. Win/win.".

Bill Hicks is Jesus.

He did weed, mushrooms, acid, cocaine. What killed him? Tobacco. The one thing that is available in stores, to teens.

@ Lothia

Are you kidding me? Theres reports and study s showing that weed and other drugs are the reason behind prison overcrowding..

More prisoners are locked away for drug violations than all violent crimes combined. It used to be perfectly legal for anyone to walk into a store and buy heroin or cocaine. Then the progressives took over in the early 20th century and began waging a war on drugs, which blossomed under Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, when marijuana became nationally illegal.

People have a right to liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. It is an affront to the founding principles of America to lock peaceful people into cages just because they consume or sell drugs.

It is also ineffective in reducing drug abuse. And it leads to more violent crime, gang warfare, judicial and police corruption, and all the other problems that accompanied alcohol prohibition.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1775

Iv'e done my research, have you?


Also, Its not just a fine you can get..Oh no. If I got caught here IN CT. with a quarter of Bud on me, Do you think they'll just take my weed and hand me a $200 ticket? Hell no, I will go to jail, to sit next to some ****ing Murderer or some rapist..

Those ****s deserve to be there, but do I really need to be in there wasting you're hard earned tax money? Common..

You can get violated on probation as well for smoking weed and violation of probation is a Felony and holds up to FIVE YEARS in PRISON. So because I got caught smoking weed, I could be doing Five years in prison, with muderers, gang bangers, and rapists..yea way to go government!

although i agree that it is very easy for some people to make sensationalist claims about the dangers of weed, the fact is that it is still a substance which is detrimental to health. it has been linked with problems with the liver and lungs.

people who are against legalization and who arent on a one sided crusade of moral fortitude probably just dont want another damaging substance made freely available.

edit: norinn just out of curosity where in east london do you live?

it has been linked with problems with the liver and lungs.



It was proven in SOME studies, true. But, for every study that shows marijuana is harmful to the body, there is another study that shows it is beneficial.

You really have to take ANY study on marijuana lightly, because there are so many factors.

If you grow your own plant, organically, NO CHEMICALS, there is no harm. I don't care what ANYONE says. I've been smoking for years, I know people who have been smoking for years.

The only thing noticeable is that it makes you kinda slow. Not slow as in dumb, but...slow as in you take a while to answer. Your answers are kinda different from everyone else, so they think it makes you dumber. Its not necessarily true...people just need to respect the ****ing plant, and there will be no problems.

What Oist is trying to say it that weed may kill brain cells, but its just a f*cking plant. And if you so happen to accidentally light it on fire, there are some side affects. hungry, happy, sleepy.

although i agree that it is very easy for some people to make sensationalist claims about the dangers of weed, the fact is that it is still a substance which is detrimental to health. it has been linked with problems with the liver and lungs.

people who are against legalization and who arent on a one sided crusade of moral fortitude probably just dont want another damaging substance made freely available.

edit: norinn just out of curosity where in east london do you live?

Damaging to who, though? Those who wanna take it. So let them. That's what pisses me off.

I live in Tower Hamlets, Hell.

just get your subscription for your monthly dose of "knowledge", to cure your "stupid" and you will be able to fully benefit from the health benefits of the great weed.

Ask Doktor Norrin, he is the only one who has it.

Jesus,shut it with Doctor Norrin.Either that guy payied him lots to spam his "knowledge" or he has an affair with him.

Weed is neither good nor bad.Yes,It can be used to relax and such and it's not as hazardous as nicotine but it also will develop an addiction.Your brain will change,instead of responding to certain images,you'll only see weed.

Jesus,shut it with Doctor Norrin.Either that guy payied him lots to spam his "knowledge" or he has an affair with him.

Weed is neither good nor bad.Yes,It can be used to relax and such and it's not as hazardous as nicotine but it also will develop an addiction.Your brain will change,instead of responding to certain images,you'll only see weed.


It has been said here many many times, weed is proven not to be addictive.

How can you all be so serious in a thread with a misspelt title. :3

/troll

How can you all be so serious in a thread with a misspelt title. :3

/troll

Round 1-Fight!

KO-Perfect!Fatality!

You win.

How can you all be so serious in a thread with a misspelt title. :3

/troll

Are you serious? People make spelling errors all the time. Like yourself, "misspelt" is incorrect.

Legalize* is that better sir?

yeah i guess if people want to take a substance they know is damaging in some way then its up to them.

but i cant see any changes being made in the law in the near future. there is too much controversy and heated debate on the subject.

still, from everything ive read and from whats been said here there clearly is room for maneauvre. the main thing i see in this thread is not necessarily arguments over how harmful weed is for responsible users, but rather how many more problems would be seen if it was made universally legal. the biggest problem i see would come from people who are underage, and i guess that is why there is still strong support for the argument of keeping it illegal.



I live in Tower Hamlets, Hell.

a friend of mine dropped out of uni because the only place he could find to stay wasn tower hamlets... he said he hated it. the show Life of Grime didnt sell the city very well either heh.

Are you serious? People make spelling errors all the time. Like yourself, "misspelt" is incorrect.

Legalize* is that better sir?

yeah dude he knows that he was just kidding thats all. no harm no foul.

Are you serious? People make spelling errors all the time. Like yourself, "misspelt" is incorrect.

Legalize* is that better sir?

No I'm pretty sure he spelled it right. It's an alternate spelling, but still perfectly valid.

edit: I'm talking about TLM's spelling btw.

No I'm pretty sure he spelled it right. It's an alternate spelling, but still perfectly valid.

edit: I'm talking about TLM's spelling btw.


I know I just had to retaliate for his trolling...XD

So, what is everyones standpoints?

How many votes for yes, and how many for no? It seems like a lot of people are going with "yes"...increasingly as we make these threads...

So, what is everyones standpoints?

How many votes for yes, and how many for no? It seems like a lot of people are going with "yes"...increasingly as we make these threads...

i say no to making it legal.

lessening the punishment or deciminalizing is a more sensible option i feel.

But do you not see the issue there, Deim? Punishment? For what? Using something on yourself?

It's absolutely ludicrous. It's nobody else's business, man. People shouldn't be punished for using weed, are you kidding?

yeah i guess if people want to take a substance they know is damaging in some way then its up to them.

but i cant see any changes being made in the law in the near future. there is too much controversy and heated debate on the subject.

still, from everything ive read and from whats been said here there clearly is room for maneauvre. the main thing i see in this thread is not necessarily arguments over how harmful weed is for responsible users, but rather how many more problems would be seen if it was made universally legal. the biggest problem i see would come from people who are underage, and i guess that is why there is still strong support for the argument of keeping it illegal.

Well thankfully, although the law shouldn't be there, it's pretty much ignored by everyone, including authorative figures nowadays.

I just don't see the issue. People are underage smoking and drinking, they're already doing two things underage that are many times more harmful. Making weed legal would be righting a wrong, not putting "another harmful substance" back on the street.

Let's be honest, it's more or less harmless. The harm anyone comes up with is dramatic and none are risks that pose any immediate threat, or threat at all really, to your average joe. How many of us are, or know, intense pot heads without any issues from it? A lot. How many of them know people who haven't had issues? It's just pointless to even go into. It's all theoretical and science is on the side OF weed, rather than against it.

Is there a way a mod can edit this topic and add a poll option?

If there is can one of you nice mods do us that favor.

Question: Should marijuana be Legalized in the United States?

Answers:1)yes
2)no
3)Decriminalize
4)Undecided

kyrow

Weed shouldn't be legalized because it basically ruins the fun when you're high. Instead of "Zomg this is insaaannee! We might get caught dude!" people will be like "Aww man, where's the drama in this...? It no longer feels like we're in a movie..."
If you don't get my point, please do not start a history lesson or something that deals with utter garbage that refers to what I said...Please.

Here is a funny comic that I found that deals with the "pros and cons" of weed.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1825/mrjnprsncnsta5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

edit: yeah man thats why i think it should be decriminalized or if thats not possible then at the very least lessen the punishments. i do agree that that is a very stupid bit of legislation. i mean drunk people only get punished if they do something retarded, that should be the same across the board.


But do you not see the issue there, Deim? Punishment? For what? Using something on yourself?

It's absolutely ludicrous. It's nobody else's business, man. People shouldn't be punished for using weed, are you kidding?



Well thankfully, although the law shouldn't be there, it's pretty much ignored by everyone, including authorative figures nowadays.

I just don't see the issue. People are underage smoking and drinking, they're already doing two things underage that are many times more harmful. Making weed illegal would be righting a wrong, not putting "another harmful substance" back on the street.

Let's be honest, it's more or less harmless. The harm anyone comes up with is dramatic and none are risks that pose any immediate threat, or threat at all really, to your average joe. How many of us are, or know, intense pot heads without any issues from it? A lot. How many of them know people who haven't had issues? It's just pointless to even go into. It's all theoretical and science is on the side OF weed, rather than against it.

but thats the thing. "more or less" not "completely harmless". yeah its easy to say let people do what they want, its their life. but to willingly make freely available a substance you know can cause harm to your health is a decision that some people think shouldnt be made.

yeah theres other worse things people can do but you cant really say "ah well its not the worst thing out there so lets add it to the pile", i dunno that sounds kind of irresponsible.

Weed shouldn't be legalized because it basically ruins the fun when you're high. Instead of "Zomg this is insaaannee! We might get caught dude!" people will be like "Aww man, where's the drama in this...? It no longer feels like we're in a movie..."
If you don't get my point, please do not start a history lesson or something that deals with utter garbage that refers to what I said...Please.

Here is a funny comic that I found that deals with the "pros and cons" of weed.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1825/mrjnprsncnsta5.gif (http://imageshack.us)


That comic holds a lot of truth.

For you to say the reason they should keep it illegal is cause you love the risk of possibly getting caught is horrible. Thats a whole new topic , so I'm going to try to stay away from that one.


@Deimos, So than why is tobacco and Alcohol still legal then? Everyone knows tobacco is deadly and the most addictive drug out there and its still legal?! Weed is 110% safer then tobacco.

For you to say the reason they should keep it illegal is cause you love the risk of possibly getting caught is horrible. Thats a whole new topic , so I'm going to try to stay away from that one.

it was a pop culture reference i think. judging by what he said after that. :-/


@Deimos, So than why is tobacco and Alcohol still legal then? Everyone knows tobacco is deadly and the most addictive drug out there and its still legal?! Weed is 110% safer then tobacco.

gah, i know. i think this already got discussed.

alcohol and tobacco have a stronger cultural setting in our society, so they are accepted social norms.

some things that were once accepted but now are not include stuff like opium and laudenum(sp?).. alcohol and tobacco just happened to have survived partly because their detrimental effects were not first realized and also because they are an established part of our social subculture.

smoking was thought to be healthy and alcohol was often a substitute for many peoples diets. it provided sustenance and vitamins which were otherwise absent in their diets. also it helps to dull hunger pangs, another reason why it was popular amongst the masses over the centuries.

but thats the thing. "more or less" not "completely harmless". yeah its easy to say let people do what they want, its their life. but to willingly make freely available a substance you know can cause harm to your health is a decision that some people think shouldnt be made.

yeah theres other worse things people can do but you cant really say "ah well its not the worst thing out there so lets add it to the pile", i dunno that sounds kind of irresponsible.

Yeah, but those are usually people who smoke. They want THEIR drugs available, just not anyone else's. I don't even think smoking should be illegal, it's up to them. There just need to be rules for enclosed spaces, and there are.

If you don't want to harm yourself, don't buy weed, don't use weed. It being legal doesn't change anything if you're never gonna use it anyway.

And yes, if you wanna say completely harmless, I will say that, because there are people who have never suffered any side-effects, negative ones, of weed. At all. It all depends, but there's not enough to suggest it should be kept illegal simply cos people don't like the idea of others doi