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View Poll Results: X-Box 360 or PS3

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  • PS3

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  • X-Box 360

    80 50.00%
  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
    Let's think it through again, shall we?

    Now, with all that you just said, you get to prove why success equals quality, because that's the argument you are making. I'm not debating against the success of Halo, I am arguing that its success does not make it factually better in quality than anything else. It makes it...more successful.

    The two are not one and the same.
    Then you tell me, Norrin, what exactly defines a game as one that is successful and full of quality? Because obviously millions of people aren't playing a game due to it being crap. I mean, I could be reading those numbers wrong, but I'm quite people wouldn't have invested as much time as they did in to this series based on it being a mediocre game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
    Right, now show me where I argued against the success of the game, or that my opinion of its quality was therefore suggesting that it wasn't successful.

    I never did. It's one of the most successful games of all time, but you seem to be arguing for that being indicative of some measure of undeniable quality. I'm sorry, but that just isn't the case. It's no more factually good that it's factually horrible. Quality is determined by individual experience, and it doesn't matter if the opinion is 5,000 saying it was good, to five saying it was bad; it remains subjective.

    Nobody was arguing against the success of Halo, just its impact on the genre, which is SIGNIFICANTLY less than its rabid fanbase would have everyone believe.
    The FPS genre can't exactly be impacted much more than it already has been. You claim quality to be determined by indivdiual experience, but when 5,000 people state that Halo was one of the most fun, enjoyable, and action packed games they'd ever played, somehow I'm hearing "quality" screamed in to my ears. If it wasn't good (and I don't mean just simple fun), why would it have done so well? Crap doesn't sell. Quality usually does.

    Not everyone likes the Final Fantasy series, and every game is subjected to numerous amounts of bashing by fans and non-fans alike. Yet each game is quality, and that's something most fans will agree on. ALMOST every game scored very high in the ratings. What do you think when you hear RPGs? For a lot, if not most people, the first thing that comes to mind is Square.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
    This from the man who clearly ignored a long, laid out, structured post that subjectively debated the quality, and objectively debated the IMPACT ON THE GENRE, but not once denied the success of the series, or denied that people liked it.

    Really, Strider. I ask that if you're going to try to counter my points, please make 100% sure you know what they are, so as I do not have to then spend valuable time explaining things in three posts that were explained and readily available to read in one.
    And the concietedness strikes again! I so heavily apologize for wasting your oh-so valuable time replying to these pointless threads (because let's face it, these threads are quite pointless). You didn't bring points to the table. You brought your opinion on Halo not being a quality game. And that's awesome. I respect your opinion on it not being so. Can we just let this go? Really?

    @danny: lol, no, you're not getting a warning. And bear in mind, I'm not an XBox fanboy. If I had to lean one way, it'd be towards Sony. I spend most of my time goofing around in LBP and am eagerly awaiting games like White Knight Story and what not. :P

    I played the Halo games, and I acknowledge that they are good. Numbers don't lie.

    *EDIT* And I know this post will get disected, so for future reference, I have to finish for the evening. Have an early Lab in the morning, and sleep seems a wee bit more valuable to me than mud-slinging matches.




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  2. #172
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    you may think that just becuase a majority likes something it makes that "thing" good but you could be wrong.

    based on education over half of america don't know much about facts in science. Does that make them more correct than the fewer intelligent scientists out there?

    nope not at all.

    also video game reviews sites are usually paid to give good reviews and are restricted from saying certain things about the games.

  3. #173
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    these mods are off topic, strange site to see......


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  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannylamb View Post
    plus rpgs belong on the PC way more then console games.
    So you think RPG's belong on the PC and shooters belong on consoles? That is ass-backwards (Aka I disagree). MMORPG's belong on PC's (unless you have a keyboard), single player RPG's belong on consoles, and FPS's only really do splitscreen multiplayer good on consoles otherwise stick to PC's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Str1der View Post
    Denying the success of Halo is silly. It was a great game, no doubts. Best shooter ever made? Of course not. What made it great was it's originality. Based off of Ring World, great story, fun gameplay, and a cool main character. What's not to love?
    Controller input + online FPS = frowny face emoticon re-inacted in real life. I feel that Team Fortress (Quake 1), Counter-strike or Quake 2 deathmach > Halo in every possible way except that they are PC based and you can't splitscreen multiplayer (I'm still waiting for a good Wii based split screen FPS).

    Quote Originally Posted by Runahs View Post
    Name a console FPS that was as successful as halo. Besides Golden Eye maybe. Not to mention it revolutionized console online gaming with halo 2.
    Perfect Dark, aka Golden Eye 2. Tonnes of fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
    As for the quality of the game itself, I'm not a fan. You can do worse, but you can do a lot better. Halo is like the Coldplay of FPS, the Harry Potter of FPS.
    This = because I think that Harry Potter and Halo are both mediocre.
    Quote Originally Posted by xBlazex View Post
    sorry for you have the evil heart in the universe. your type are just destroy are world
    The battle of science vs. religion ended when churches started putting lightning rods on their steeples.

  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pok View Post
    So you think RPG's belong on the PC and shooters belong on consoles? That is ass-backwards (Aka I disagree). MMORPG's belong on PC's (unless you have a keyboard), single player RPG's belong on consoles, and FPS's only really do splitscreen multiplayer good on consoles otherwise stick to PC's.
    if i want your retarded comments ill ask for them, every time you quote me you make me want to eat a gun.......


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  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str1der View Post
    Then you tell me, Norrin, what exactly defines a game as one that is successful and full of quality? Because obviously millions of people aren't playing a game due to it being crap. I mean, I could be reading those numbers wrong, but I'm quite people wouldn't have invested as much time as they did in to this series based on it being a mediocre game.
    There isn't a set formula for either, because nothing is FACTUALLY good quality in terms of taste. Success, though, is determined by making something; an album, a clothing line, a movie or a game, accessible to everyone from any area of life.

    Halo did that, but that does not make it a good quality game, by fact. No amount of numbered success will equate to it being closer stapled as factually good. To prove my point, Britney Spears has sold 31 million albums to Halo's 20 million games sold.

    Now, if we apply your logic (Perhaps lack thereof) to that, she can't really be considered someone who makes crap music, based off the fact that she's sold that many albums. She's sold more albums than Halo has sold games. Your assumption that it factually isn't mediocre simply because so many of the MAJORITY AND GENERAL POPULACE chose to invest time in it, is ludicrous. The last thing you should be doing is using the majority to indicate what is and isn't good quality.

    Sometimes the two coincide by chance, and something of great quality (Subjective ALWAYS) becomes successful; The Dark Knight, for example. That doesn't mean there's a set formula, or that its overwhelming positive response means that someone with a good argument as to why it sucked to them, is any less credible.

    You are proposing that because it generated SUCH a response, there simply must be something there that elevates the quality by fact, and you're wrong on a general level.

    As I said, Harry Potter books: "I don't read, but I've gotta say, those Harry Potter books are amazing.".

    No, their ability to hook you in doesn't therefore mean all the books that didn't are inferior or lesser. It means you needed something specifically designed to make you feel good about yourself before you dared dip your feet into the literary water. Halo isn't any different. Non-gamers praising it doesn't actually give it any factually advanced quality on any other game, and if that's what you're implying, then you're being kind of redundant.

    If you'd never watched a movie in your life, but then Superhero Movie coaxed you into a cinema journey, would you argue its artistic merits and quality over the likes of Apocalypse Now, The Godfather, Wall-E, There Will Be Blood or Citizen Kane? I sincerely doubt that you would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Str1der View Post
    The FPS genre can't exactly be impacted much more than it already has been. You claim quality to be determined by indivdiual experience, but when 5,000 people state that Halo was one of the most fun, enjoyable, and action packed games they'd ever played, somehow I'm hearing "quality" screamed in to my ears. If it wasn't good (and I don't mean just simple fun), why would it have done so well? Crap doesn't sell. Quality usually does.
    Well, to put it as blunt yet respectfully as I can; that is utter nonsense.

    Your general point is that it's quality because it shifted units. The world is full of unit shifters in every avenue of media and art that don't scream "quality.".

    There isn't much need for me to dissect such an argument, because by suggesting it, you've defeated your own point.

    Sales and figures mean nothing beyond "Here's how many people paid.", so to use them as indication of quality is useless. I am one of the 20 million people who bought A Halo game. If you feel that every copy bought was liked, then you're deluded. People rate how hype indicates that they rate it. Halo was Emperor's new clothes if it was ever seen. Same with Grand Theft Auto.

    "Crap doesn't sell.", haha. Legendary. That might actually go in my sig.

    $207,283,925. Do you know what that is? That's the overall gross of The Fast & the Furious. I rest my case. Crap sold.

    Success doesn't indicate quality, major fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Str1der View Post
    Not everyone likes the Final Fantasy series, and every game is subjected to numerous amounts of bashing by fans and non-fans alike. Yet each game is quality, and that's something most fans will agree on. ALMOST every game scored very high in the ratings. What do you think when you hear RPGs? For a lot, if not most people, the first thing that comes to mind is Square.
    I disagree, I don't think any Final Fantasy game has been good since, or before seven.

    Prove me factually incorrect.

    You cannot, because rating and success does not indicate factual quality. It indicates that a lot of people AGREE that it was quality, not that the quality is factual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Str1der View Post
    And the concietedness strikes again! I so heavily apologize for wasting your oh-so valuable time replying to these pointless threads (because let's face it, these threads are quite pointless). You didn't bring points to the table. You brought your opinion on Halo not being a quality game. And that's awesome. I respect your opinion on it not being so. Can we just let this go? Really?
    Conceitedness? You actually believe numbers mean the game was factually good.

    I say, factually prove it. Not its success, its quality. Success doesn't equal quality. For reasons stated previously.

    I've brought civil and concise point after civil and concise point, you've chosen to retaliate with ignorance and accusing me of being conceited. Not once have to countered my points, and never shall you, because your argument boils down to the claim; "Sales and success indicated good quality.", and that is factually wrong as a general statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Str1der View Post
    I played the Halo games, and I acknowledge that they are good. Numbers don't lie.
    They're not factually good or bad, it's opinion.

    Their success is a fact, the quality isn't. Success does not mean quality, so the two are not intrinsically linked. Can you prove otherwise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Str1der View Post
    *EDIT* And I know this post will get disected, so for future reference, I have to finish for the evening. Have an early Lab in the morning, and sleep seems a wee bit more valuable to me than mud-slinging matches.
    There's no mud-slinging. There's you trying to claim things are fact when they are not, and you're just spouting nonsense, with all due respect.
    Last edited by Norrin Radd; 11-13-2008 at 06:07 AM.

  7. #177
    Xenonight2's Zealot Reputation: 229
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannylamb View Post
    if i want your retarded comments ill ask for them, every time you quote me you make me want to eat a gun.......
    So if I quote you a lot you'll eventually kill yourself and I won't have to read your one-sided garbage posts? ONRPG viewers, this next act is for your benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannylamb View Post
    if i want your retarded comments ill ask for them, every time you quote me you make me want to eat a gun.......
    Quote Originally Posted by dannylamb View Post
    if i want your retarded comments ill ask for them, every time you quote me you make me want to eat a gun.......
    Quote Originally Posted by dannylamb View Post
    if i want your retarded comments ill ask for them, every time you quote me you make me want to eat a gun.......
    Quote Originally Posted by dannylamb View Post
    if i want your retarded comments ill ask for them, every time you quote me you make me want to eat a gun.......
    On-topic: PS3 no online fee.
    Quote Originally Posted by xBlazex View Post
    sorry for you have the evil heart in the universe. your type are just destroy are world
    The battle of science vs. religion ended when churches started putting lightning rods on their steeples.

  8. #178
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    As much as I disagree with Strider's point due to it carrying pretty much no factual weight, it was a respectful discussion. I'm sure we've both said all we can, so unless he has more to say that I'd like to address, I'm done with it.

    However, there's no need for you to make those kind of posts, Pok, nor Danny. It's not productive in ANY sense, so you should probably stop that. No need to start telling people to kill themselves and getting personally abusive.

  9. #179
    Xenonight2's Zealot Reputation: 229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
    However, there's no need for you to make those kind of posts, Pok, nor Danny. It's not productive in ANY sense, so you should probably stop that. No need to start telling people to kill themselves and getting personally abusive.
    It's productive as I find it amusing . Really, isn't that all that most of the people here are looking for? They've likely already decided on their choice between the PS3 and 360 (and any other matters) and are going to try to convince other people (who are also going to try to convince them) to change their views while being absolutely immobile in their own ideals. Valid points on either side may be made, but laughing > facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by xBlazex View Post
    sorry for you have the evil heart in the universe. your type are just destroy are world
    The battle of science vs. religion ended when churches started putting lightning rods on their steeples.

  10. #180
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    Nobody said anything against comedy and humour, but there are rules as pertains to personal insults, flaming and intentional baiting.

    I'd suggest stopping the three latter.

    Off topicness happens, but let's at least keep it civil.

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