League of Legends [Discussion]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcon View Post
    Looked through the champion roster and here're the champs I've never seen played in any tournie style play: Evelynn, Karma, Kayle, Master yi, Sejuani(newchamp), Twitch, Viktor, Volibear, Ziggs(newchamp). New champ = too recent for people to actually use/form opinion wether good or not, so they won't use in tournaments.

    That's only like 10% of the champions that have never seen play, which isn't that bad imo.

    And this is only from what I've seen, though I've followed the competetive scene for some time now.
    Evelynn is a joke to most people... warranted or unwarranted.

    I can't say too much about Karma, I played her once and did not like her what so ever. I don't see Karma doing anything special that other champs don't do a lot better.

    As much as I like Kayle, she gets outclassed by many other champs. On paper Kayle has a lot of utility, she really is a jack of all trades. She has up to 15% reduction on an enemy's armor and magic resistances, a ranged slow, a heal and movement speed buff rolled into one, near constant ranged AoE for some pretty good harass while farming at the same time, and a 3 second god mode buff. The problem is that there are better champs that do one or two of those things a lot better while doing a lot more damage or being a lot more tanky and you can cover all of those bases with 3-5 champs that all singularly perform better. I'd rather have a Soraka healing. Sion has a ranged stun, Ryze has a ranged root, and many champs have slows. Many champs have AoEs and AoEs are situational. God mode... I don't think anyone has that where they can place it on someone. Tryn's got god mode but only for himself. All of these champs save for Soraka out-damage Kayle by leaps and bounds, and Soraka's got far more healing output(on top of reliable AoE).

    Master Yi I don't really get, I've seen many good Yis and many bad Yis. Who's more favored in the melee DPS category? He's got good abilities. Alpha Strike is silly in terms of harassment, in the same category as Fiddle's crow but a bit less since Yi potentially puts himself in danger every time he does it. He's got a regeneration ability, and a massive speed boost & immunity to slows. The only thing I can think of is that he's got no CC at all unless you grab a Frozen Mallet or something.

    I can't say too much about Sejuani, she seems really odd. Her CC ability is through the roof but besides that she just kind of runs around in a team fight with not much to do once the CC's out.

    Twitch... eh. As ranged stealth he can get you pretty good and his ult just hurts when caught in a bad spot. Like all champs based on stealth though, you're totally crippled by oracles and pink wards.

    Viktor I enjoyed playing quite a bit but he takes too long to really get going. I actually like his CC... if a slow is all you need then hey, it's there. I think many people ignore the concept of using his CC on an already slowed target to get the stun. Combine him with Galio's ult and you can get a good number of stuns in. Use Viktor's CC to place just ahead of someone running away from Nunu's ult to force them to detour and potentially take the hit because they won't make it out in time or to take the slow and stun in the hopes that they make it out. Combine him with a real good Tibbers stun and keep them there for longer and potentially get a second stun going. He's got good nuke potential when his ult is available but his damage output isn't there without it. I think he's a victim of being too situational.

    Volibear I don't understand at all, is it just an outcome of a better pick? I'm not too familiar with him and things like scaling but he doesn't sound like a bad offtank at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rales6 View Post
    Movement speed is a overpowered and flawed mechanic in the current meta.

    Stop being so ignorant and actually think about it. Theorycraft a bit. Early game if you don't have any type of slow (even stuns work work unless you have a jungler waiting to gank) the enemy will get away. Do you have any idea how good Teemo is right now? With MSQs and his W he can just kite you to death. If your Yi, Irelia, or anyone with a dash he Q's you, hits you once and runs. And he will almost always get away, unless he gets perma slowed.

    Why are AoE slows like Lee Sins E so strong? Why is Nunu considered a strong and viable pick? Nasus's witter, etc. Because they can basically perma slow you. If you get perma slowed there is no way you are getting away. If you get stunned, you take some damage and if you have more movement speed then the enemy then you'll get away.
    This assumes you are playing 1vs1

    This is a team game

    Unless you're playing with idiots, 1vs1 is not something you'll do often when it gets to mid and late game. Even early game,it is not impossible to catch a fast moving champion. It simply requires some actual thinking instead of bum rushing them.

    If NO ONE has a slow on your team, or any form of hard CC that can stop mobile champs, you already lost regardless. Also, it's very easy to slap on a CC on a CC-less champion, hell they tend to be core items. (Example: Shyvana and frozen mallet)

    Calling a core mechanic such as movement speed "OP" is laughable.
    Last edited by Akeras; 02-07-2012 at 03:47 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cingal View Post
    Generally, if the game has characters which would put you on an FBI watchlist, you're playing an Asian game.

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    Movement speed definitely isn't an overpowered mechanic, flawed? definitely. It generally doesn't mean shit in most situations. I can't even count the number of times when I got chased down by a champion with like half my movespeed w/o the use of any kind of speed boost/abilities. They need to tweak it imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeras View Post
    This assumes you are playing 1vs1

    This is a team game

    Unless you're playing with idiots, 1vs1 is not something you'll do often when it gets to mid and late game. Even early game,it is not impossible to catch a fast moving champion. It simply requires some actual thinking instead of bum rushing them.

    If NO ONE has a slow on your team, or any form of hard CC that can stop mobile champs, you already lost regardless. Also, it's very easy to slap on a CC on a CC-less champion, hell they tend to be core items. (Example: Shyvana and frozen mallet)

    Calling a core mechanic such as movement speed "OP" is laughable.
    I dont mean it being OP as in "ZOMG XIN RELEASE OP" What I mean by that is that its a extremely strong (better then other) mechanic's. And if well utilized then you could win any fight.

    Give me a Lee sin, level 4 with Q-W-E in his skills with a ward and some MSQs. Given that he started with shoes and 1 ward 1 pot, he should have 387 Movement speed or 398 (with Janna's passive). Say a Ziggs and Fizz come at me to gank me at blue so Ziggs can get the blue, I will 100% kill them both no matter the skills level. Slow them down with E, place a ward down for utility with W, and just run around that ward kiting them. If they run out to a lane I can catch up quickly. They wouldn't be able to run away from me.

    You most of you misunderstand my point dramatically. I understand that you all think your HotshotGGs and shit, but I'm trying to show you something that Theorycraft has been on since the start of this game. Don't be ignorant and experiment, play a game normally, then play a game with Movement speed as the utility. Start with shoes, etc.

    I'm no pro, but I can most definitely back my statements after being here for every champions release.
    Last edited by Rales6; 02-07-2012 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Fixx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rales6 View Post
    I dont mean it being OP as in "ZOMG XIN RELEASE OP" What I mean by that is that its a extremely strong (better then other) mechanic's. And if well utilized then you could win any fight.

    Give me a Lee sin, level 4 with Q-W-E in his skills with a ward and some MSQs. Given that he started with shoes and 1 ward 1 pot, he should have 378 Movement speed or 398 (with Janna's passive). Say a Ziggs and Fizz come at me to gank me at blue so Ziggs can get the blue, I will 100% kill them both no matter the skills level. Slow them down with E, place a ward down for utility with W, and just run around that ward kiting them. If they run out to a lane I can catch up quickly. They wouldn't be able to run away from me.

    You most of you misunderstand my point dramatically. I understand that you all think your HotshotGGs and shit, but I'm trying to show you something that Theorycraft has been on since the start of this game. Don't be ignorant and experiment, play a game normally, then play a game with Movement speed as the utility. Start with shoes, etc.

    I'm no pro, but I can most definitely back my statements after being here for every champions release.
    First of all, none of us claim to be HotshotGG (the guy annoys me and I find him overrated personally). Here's the problem, you're setting up a ideal situation for Lee Sin and not mentioning possible builds (or skill levels) of the Ziggs and Fizz. In your example, you are basically weighting things in Lee's favor without bringing up potential variables for Fizz and Ziggs.

    Also, theorycrafting is just that, a theory. It does not always pan out well in actual practice.

    Also, I'd like to point out that "being here for every champion's release" does not suddenly make you correct. You can be doing something for years and still be doing it incorrectly (example in real life: riding motorcycles)
    Last edited by Akeras; 02-07-2012 at 05:03 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cingal View Post
    Generally, if the game has characters which would put you on an FBI watchlist, you're playing an Asian game.

  6. #32286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeras View Post
    First of all, none of us claim to be HotshotGG (the guy annoys me and I find him overrated personally). Here's the problem, you're setting up a ideal situation for Lee Sin and not mentioning possible builds (or skill levels) of the Ziggs and Fizz. In your example, you are basically weighting things in Lee's favor without bringing up potential variables for Fizz and Ziggs.

    Also, theorycrafting is just that, a theory. It does not always pan out well in actual practice.
    Iv done it in actual practice multiple times. Doesn't matter what they have, the outcome is always the same (unless they have 9 health pots).

    Say both have a Doran's Ring.

    Also, You all on here give off that "I know everything" vib. Its just a testing thingy, its actually quite fun seeing that they can't run away from you.

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    Sorry about the lateness of my reply, I've been having a busy few days.

    Boots + 3 pots is standard on mid for multiple reasons, most of them already listed here by others.

    1. Safety from early level 2 ganks from a red enhanced jungler
    2. Greater positional advantage, allowing you to zone more effectively
    3. Increased ability to avoid skill shots
    4. Allows for safer last hitting, moving in and out of range of an enemy's range faster, giving them less chance to react.
    5. Increased chasing power, allowing you to secure kills against a flighty opponent
    6. Greater sustain from potions allows for damage trades to wind up in your favour in the long term against someone who instead got a Doran's Ring (Unless its Morgana)
    7. In the case of Ziggs specifically, it allows for you to go in and use his passive to harass, both using the speed and sustain for trades
    8. The increased speed also allows you to pick up blues from your jungler more easily, meaning you lose less from your lane when you move
    9. Allows for better positioning in early team fights, and theoretically safer invasions, again both from the sustain and better positioning


    Also, why was my article referred to as a "review"? What's up with the quotation marks?

    Unrelated: Saying a character isn't OP because they require a high skill ceiling is frankly the wrong way to look at a character. When trying to evaluate the potential of a character, you can't say "Well, if they don't use their abilities properly, they're not as agood".. well, yeah. If a character, for example, never uses their ult throughout the whole game then they're probably the worst character in that game, but not overall.
    Last edited by Hhean; 02-07-2012 at 05:53 PM.

  8. #32288
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    you're stating that we are giving off a know it all vibe yet your posts indicate that you believe you know more about it then we do, theroycrafting is just that, its crafting a theroy, no one is going to argue that movement speed isn't a huge deal, its one of the most important stats in the game, actually any moba, positioning and movement are the most important thing about moba's when it comes to engagements, so i don't feel like its a bad thing, if some one has more movement speed then you at the start of the game that was their choice to build that way, you should just be farming and trying to deny then as much xp and cs as possible anyways.

    its just a necessary stat that defines the game, without it what would be the point? taking away another layer of an already dumbed down moba, no thanks.

    there could be tweaking done to it sure since boots are a required item, you will never see anyone skip boots which can be argued that is just bad game design but other then that i would rather have it be "over powered" then not have it or it be useless.

    that being said i could be biased since i actually have a few high movement speed champions i really enjoy playing and stacking movement speed on.

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    Why can't I hold all these assists

    Though this might've been a very boring time, it was very relaxing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolRawrrr View Post
    holy shit mundo is back

    jungle mundo is true terror
    I was facerolled by jungle mundo before it became mainstream.

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