League of Legends [Discussion]

  1. #41781
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    IMO Yasuo's Wall isn't borderline broken, you're overreacting. I'd be more worried about his other abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Invalid Apostle View Post
    IMO Yasuo's Wall isn't borderline broken, you're overreacting. I'd be more worried about his other abilities.
    At worst, it's very good. You can't say it's not useful, especially with alot of the best damage in the game being ranged.

    I do think he has too much CC for a carry (ranged tornado, then ult knocks up in an area too). It's compensated by needing to charge up like Annie tho, and then needs good timing to chain his ult after it. But the wall? That's more concerning to mi. If it doesn't get nerfed in the next few patches, I'd be very surprised.

    I already addressed his other skills in my post 4 pages back. Which is why I think he'd be a good support. Resourceless, free ranged poke and shield, decent CC, plus that skill to boot? Imagine at worst case, every 20s your ADC can't cs for a few seconds due to that spell. He can force you to miss gold on EVERY cannon minion and then some. 20s CD isn't so punishing (Soraka's heal is on a 20s cd too).

    I've seen a video of it blocking a Zigg's ult and others. As long as you place it right, you can block almost anything (even skillshots that normally curve over the wall eventually have to come down). That's why it's so powerful~~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senna View Post
    At worst, it's very good. You can't say it's not useful, especially with alot of the best damage in the game being ranged.

    I do think he has too much CC for a carry (ranged tornado, then ult knocks up in an area too). It's compensated by needing to charge up like Annie tho, and then needs good timing to chain his ult after it. But the wall? That's more concerning to mi. If it doesn't get nerfed in the next few patches, I'd be very surprised.

    I already addressed his other skills in my post 4 pages back. Which is why I think he'd be a good support. Resourceless, free ranged poke and shield, decent CC, plus that skill to boot? Imagine at worst case, every 20s your ADC can't cs for a few seconds due to that spell. He can force you to miss gold on EVERY cannon minion and then some. 20s CD isn't so punishing (Soraka's heal is on a 20s cd too).

    I've seen a video of it blocking a Zigg's ult and others. As long as you place it right, you can block almost anything (even skillshots that normally curve over the wall eventually have to come down). That's why it's so powerful~~
    Zigg's ult being blocked is a bug in PBE, it's been said already that it won't block ults/abilities that go off-screen. Curved skillshots like Diana obviously can be blocked.

    But you're missing the fact that it lasts only 3.75 seconds, has a 20 second CD and has the shortest width out of all the wall abilities in the game(other than trundle, but that's not a wall). Considering most non-ult skillshots are alot less CD then his wall, he'll either get poked all day cause hes trying to save his Wall for ults or vice-versa. At most, he can clutch save with good reaction. Yes it can fully mitigate a projectile. But that just means its susceptible to all-in comps too.

    There are also different angles that you can fire a projectile, your whole team does not have to fire their shots in the same line. Also, you'd have the mindset that Yasuo can block projectiles so you'd want to bait it out. You won't spam all your skillshots on a Vlad that casted pool right?

    I'm more scared of him getting into my backline with a long lengthed ass dash with 0.1CD and critting the dick out of my ADC while knocking people up. His knock-up will be easy as shit to charge seeing as he can stack it before entering the fight, while entering the fight with his dash and at the middle of the fight all while doing on-hit-AOE. His Q gets to a minimum CD of 1.3s at ~1.5atkspd.

    Good thing he sucks ass early game though.

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    I've read it's not supposed to block Zigg's ult, and in fact, it does go over his wall in PBE. But if you put the wall right in front of the impact area, it will absorb the blast. Apparently when the bomb comes down again it can be blocked. Just not while in most of it's flight.

    And "lasts only 3.75s?" Kayle ult at lv 1 lasts 2s only, and lv 3 is max 3s of invulnerability. His can be taken at level 1 if needed, and lasts a LOT longer. 3.75s is a VERY long time. Long enough that waiting it out can put you in a positional disadvantage. Also, I think the wall is massive. It's huge. I don't think it's tiny in the least.

    What you are forgetting is that he doesn't NEED to block everything with his wall. He doesn't have only 1hp. Poked all day? He's got a dash, shield and CC. He's probably going to build some lifesteal too. Do you really think he'll be so bad without his wall for a short while?

    His wall is one of the best anti-burst abilities in the game, you can't CC and pick off an enemy out of position because of it. All-in comps? Alot of ranged initiates like Amumu's bandage toss, Leona's Zenith Blade etc all get blocked by it too. If your all in comp is Malphite + 4 bruisers with gapclosers, then it might work. But his wall can protect from all-in and CC chaining pretty well as most initiations are ranged.

    You'll never always get a position to flank them to shoot past the wall. When contesting objectives or in lanes which are pretty much straight, how will you get past it? It's not tiny. Sure, baiting it out is a viable strategy, like Sivir's spellshield. However you need to remember, a good Yasuo won't use it on stupid things that don't matter much, you'd need to commit a very powerful ability to make him put it up~

    I don't see Yasuo being a dive threat moreso than any other champ. As a support, I've seen plenty of champs who can do that equally well. Why should I be scared of Yasuo? Just deal with him the same way you do to a Tryn or Yi when they get to the backline: CC them and focus them. His CC isn't as strong as you claim if people don't bunch up together (just treat him like Malphite and spread out slightly and you'll be alright). I do think he's a strong champ and can dive well, but he's not "special" in that regard in any way. If he builds damage you can easily focus him if he goes into the middle of the enemy team as his wall won't be in a position to block everything coming from around him in that occasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senna View Post
    I've read it's not supposed to block Zigg's ult, and in fact, it does go over his wall in PBE. But if you put the wall right in front of the impact area, it will absorb the blast. Apparently when the bomb comes down again it can be blocked. Just not while in most of it's flight.
    Yes, it's been reported. It's not mechanically intended whether or not he casts it right at the moment of impact,
    And "lasts only 3.75s?" Kayle ult at lv 1 lasts 2s only, and lv 3 is max 3s of invulnerability. His can be taken at level 1 if needed, and lasts a LOT longer. 3.75s is a VERY long time. Long enough that waiting it out can put you in a positional disadvantage. Also, I think the wall is massive. It's huge. I don't think it's tiny in the least.
    Kayle gives full invulnerability while also giving the protected champion access to all of his attacks.

    What you are forgetting is that he doesn't NEED to block everything with his wall. He doesn't have only 1hp. Poked all day? He's got a dash, shield and CC. He's probably going to build some lifesteal too. Do you really think he'll be so bad without his wall for a short while?
    Dash is targetted not a skillshot, shield is ~200 @ lv18, very short width Q on third charge (his CC). Ok he has lifesteal so what lol.. He's still gonna get poked atleast 2-3 times before his Wall is back up.
    No, I'm implying how it's not as broken as you think it is.

    His wall is one of the best anti-burst abilities in the game, you can't CC and pick off an enemy out of position because of it. All-in comps? Alot of ranged initiates like Amumu's bandage toss, Leona's Zenith Blade etc all get blocked by it too. If your all in comp is Malphite + 4 bruisers with gapclosers, then it might work. But his wall can protect from all-in and CC chaining pretty well as most initiations are ranged.
    Amumu gets ****ed sure, but Leona still has her R. Jarvan doesn't get blocked cause hes not a projectile. Nocturne, Sej dash, Hecarim, Zac, Shyv, etc. Malphite is 1 out of many champs with a gapcloser initiate lmao. Most initiations are not projectiles.

    You'll never always get a position to flank them to shoot past the wall. When contesting objectives or in lanes which are pretty much straight, how will you get past it? It's not tiny. Sure, baiting it out is a viable strategy, like Sivir's spellshield. However you need to remember, a good Yasuo won't use it on stupid things that don't matter much, you'd need to commit a very powerful ability to make him put it up~
    Like I said, he'll either chose to use his wall to block poke or ult. Meaning he will get poked all day, or ulted. Doesn't matter. Once again, it's only a clutch ability. Not block all win all.
    I don't see Yasuo being a dive threat moreso than any other champ. As a support, I've seen plenty of champs who can do that equally well. Why should I be scared of Yasuo? Just deal with him the same way you do to a Tryn or Yi when they get to the backline: CC them and focus them. His CC isn't as strong as you claim if people don't bunch up together (just treat him like Malphite and spread out slightly and you'll be alright). I do think he's a strong champ and can dive well, but he's not "special" in that regard in any way. If he builds damage you can easily focus him if he goes into the middle of the enemy team as his wall won't be in a position to block everything coming from around him in that occasion.
    His dash is faster, longer and shorter CD depending on who you dash to. Hes alot more mobile than Trynd or Yi. Like Renekton's dash, he can completely skim through the whole front line while Trynd's is about half the distance and Yi relies on getting a reset, both however rely on going into the jungle to surprise gank the backline.

    Again, I'm not saying Yasuo's wall is utter shit. It's very useful. But it's not borderline broken at all.

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    1) Yasuo's doesn't allow full use of ally skills like Kayle? Uh, doesn't it only blocks enemy projectiles? Your carries can still safely do damage, while the enemies are screwed~~

    2) He's a melee champ. You're acting like he will be destroyed by poke. Sure if you stand in front lines, of course. But you're not a tank as Yasuo. Why would you do so? Remember his very long range dash you're lauding about. He doesn't need to put himself into a position to be poked. His dash may be targeted but it's still VERY useful cos he won't need to be hanging too near to the frontlines to engage. He can hang back, and move forward and then dash in when the time is right, like an assassin like Zed/Talon. You can't complain about his CC also. It's small? Alot of CC's are as small in width, if not smaller~~

    3) How many of these few champs would you have in the same team at a time? Nocturne, Sej, Hecarim, Zac, Shyvana, Malphite... you really think a team comp would have more than one or at most two of them? Where would all your damage come from? Remember his wall is 3.75s. That's 3.75s of your tank diving in and the rest of the team being unable to support him with ranged attacks/CC, while the enemy can focus yours while being safe. One or two melee characters vs a team of 5, I'm sure you can tell who would win that fight. Yasuo just needs to put up his wall behind your tank and your team is screwed.

    4) I never said it's a block all win all thing. But you act like there's no answer to poke. Seriously, all other melee characters suffer from getting poked, AND don't have the luxury of a free 3.75s shield every 20s, and they do just fine. It's not the end of the world, just deal with it as you would with any other melee champion. He's not a tank, don't position him like one and you won't take huge poke damage~~

    5) I know about his low CD dash. Unlike Yi or Tryn tho, he's more vulnerable to CC and focus than them due to his wall being sub-par when surrounded (can't block from all directions). He can get to your backline, but he won't SURVIVE there as well as Yi or Tryn, who can both become invulnerable/untargetable. I know his dash is useful, I just don't think it's as big a problem as his wall. It scales of AP, not AD, so he won't be doing too much damage with it. If you're talking about being scared about dives, I'd probably fear Riven/Renekton/Jax moreso than Yasuo.

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    I think Yasuo is actually quite limited in terms of gameplay,

    Put it this way, he can't use his ult until he get 3 procs or you get a suitable team comp. That's limiting him blowing up targets from the start of a fight. This makes it so he has to fully rely on his double crit passive for another alternative damage source.

    Also, people should be aware of when he has his wall up. Sure, it can block champion ults and crap but I doubt everyone will stack projectile ults all in one go and be that dumb to see it get blocked.

    And just to clarify, I'm not saying he's not OP, but I'm saying he does have counterplay to a certain degree.
    The double crit passive definitely needs to be toned down. I think the wall is fine though.
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    Yasou wall should only work if you time it perfectly like really hard

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    Some parts of Tribunal i really enjoy.

    So i had a game, where Sivir went afk and Sion was our jungler, after enemy bottom used their summoner spells twice and Sion still did not a do a single gang i said to him : "Sion, enemy bottom have already used their summoners twice but you still did not gang"
    To what he replied in all chat - "Report "me" for massive flaming"

    And this is where the fun begins.
    I was waiting, waiting for it and it happened. Sion said that enemy team. .sucks..
    hehe.....hehehe...
    that's enough for tribunal. In the end Sion and Orianna reported me i guess, while i reported them, there ofcourse were no real reason to report me, but then again, its tribunal, you can get banned for saying "Hello"
    Its so easy to find a reason to report for its stupid. In 90% of games i find "my own reason" to report for Negative Attitude because well, i want the player to get banned and i can because the Tribunal is so stupid.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Senna View Post
    1) Yasuo's doesn't allow full use of ally skills like Kayle? Uh, doesn't it only blocks enemy projectiles? Your carries can still safely do damage, while the enemies are screwed~~
    1. You have to be behind it.
    2. Not all carries are ranged.
    3. It has a short range, thus, once again, it's really only for clutch moments.
    2) He's a melee champ. You're acting like he will be destroyed by poke. Sure if you stand in front lines, of course. But you're not a tank as Yasuo. Why would you do so? Remember his very long range dash you're lauding about. He doesn't need to put himself into a position to be poked. His dash may be targeted but it's still VERY useful cos he won't need to be hanging too near to the frontlines to engage. He can hang back, and move forward and then dash in when the time is right, like an assassin like Zed/Talon. You can't complain about his CC also. It's small? Alot of CC's are as small in width, if not smaller~~
    Uh what? We're talking about his W useage. Obviously if he wants to fill the assassin role he'll hang in the back and dash in with the initiator like I said.

    It's actually the smallest in width out of any line-ranged CC. It's about the same as Jinx's W.

    3) How many of these few champs would you have in the same team at a time? Nocturne, Sej, Hecarim, Zac, Shyvana, Malphite... you really think a team comp would have more than one or at most two of them? Where would all your damage come from? Remember his wall is 3.75s. That's 3.75s of your tank diving in and the rest of the team being unable to support him with ranged attacks/CC, while the enemy can focus yours while being safe. One or two melee characters vs a team of 5, I'm sure you can tell who would win that fight. Yasuo just needs to put up his wall behind your tank and your team is screwed.
    You make it seem like every team should have 4 Ranged champions that ONLY use projectiles. Roflmao. Terrible comp. There's all in MIDS, all in BOT lanes, and all in TOPS/JUNGLES.
    At most, teams will have 2 champions that have projectiles and that doesn't mean they can't walk to the side a little or synchronize and engage with the initiator.

    4) I never said it's a block all win all thing. But you act like there's no answer to poke. Seriously, all other melee characters suffer from getting poked, AND don't have the luxury of a free 3.75s shield every 20s, and they do just fine. It's not the end of the world, just deal with it as you would with any other melee champion. He's not a tank, don't position him like one and you won't take huge poke damage~~
    You never said it, but your implying it. I'm not saying theres no answer to poke, I'm saying he'll be no diffrent from the others. His Wall won't make a HUGE difference like you imply it to.

    5) I know about his low CD dash. Unlike Yi or Tryn tho, he's more vulnerable to CC and focus than them due to his wall being sub-par when surrounded (can't block from all directions). He can get to your backline, but he won't SURVIVE there as well as Yi or Tryn, who can both become invulnerable/untargetable. I know his dash is useful, I just don't think it's as big a problem as his wall. It scales of AP, not AD, so he won't be doing too much damage with it. If you're talking about being scared about dives, I'd probably fear Riven/Renekton/Jax moreso than Yasuo.
    Yasuo doesn't need to rely on surprise ambushes. He dives in, with the tank (obviously), and goes straight to the carries while using his Q. The damage isn't from his dash(lol again, obviously). It's from his Q. It's pretty much a mini-ravenous hydra + Manual Fiora ult or Yi Strike but with more control and potential damage.

    Imagine Renekton with much more burst dmg but less tanky. He can already skim through to the backline without taking any damage, he just lacks 100-0. Yasuo is pretty much that but with AOE as well as a knock-up.

    He can get 100% crit chance with only 2 items. And your just worried about a wall that blocks 2/5 ,at most, of the attacks of SOME abilities for 3.75s with low cast range and width?
    Last edited by Invalid Apostle; 11-24-2013 at 05:51 PM.

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