League of Legends [Discussion]

  1. #42121
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    Wow, how rude.

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    People build Ancient Golem on Shyvana cos right now Tenacity is good, and there ISN'T a viable alternative (Wriggles outright sucks right now, and all the others have mana regen). Golem helps her survive (HP!), gives her Tenacity, frees up her boots for Mobility or Ninja Tabi, and is the most powerful item for her while wasting the least stats. In this case, it's alright to build it simply because there isn't a better alternative~~

    I'd also have to say you are wrong on Frozen Heart being the best anti-AD item. Randuin's is simply BETTER at diving ADCs due to it's passive and active. Both of which reduce movespeed, and the passive also destroys the attack speed of ANY ADC trying to attack you. Slowing the movespeed of everyone around you adds even more disruption to the enemy team. Frozen Heart also doesn't have the 500 HP that Randuin's does, which is MASSIVE when being a tank in the front lines diving the ADC. If you want to counter fed ADCs and heavy AD teams? You'd build a combination of these: Randuins, Thornmail, Sunfire or Spirit Visage. Spirit Visage is better vs AP, but it still offers health and has CDR, so you can get it if you really want the CDR that Frozen Heart offers. Also, Thornmail ALONE is better vs a fed ADC simply due to the reflected damage. You'll be denying him lifesteal and forcing him off the fight simply by being in his face. Just never rush Thornmail first as you need HP before it becomes effective (armor means NOTHING if you don't have HP as well, which is why Sunfire/Randuins are so popular).

    This, again, is simply another example that you're trying to itemize against enemies but are simply not doing it effectively. Go look at the LCS or any other pro tournament if you want further proof. When facing an all-AD comp, people don't stack Frozen Hearts. They stack Thornmails and Randuins~~

    I've even found some recent games for you to see. Take a look at this past week's LCS. Note how Vi, Shyvana, Renekton, even GRAGAS picks up the following items I've recommended. And note the CONSPICUOUS lack of ANY Frozen Hearts whatsoever in the games, even on champs who use mana (Vi, Gragas). Even LULU and CAITLYN pick up Randuin's in the first game. THAT is how good that item is. Feel free to look through ALL the other games as well. I'm pretty sure you won't see many Frozen Hearts in them (if any at all). It's simply an outclassed item at the moment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac1MYacL-_4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kg9H0uSFSk


    And honestly, if you tell yourself you can't do something (like CS, write, or whatever), you'll NEVER be able to do it. I'm sure you've heard cases where people have recovered or improved their medical conditions. In such cases, they sure as hell didn't give up. If you're so easily dissuaded, then you're not going anywhere in life~~
    Last edited by Senna; 01-20-2014 at 03:34 PM.

  3. #42123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senna View Post
    People build Ancient Golem on Shyvana cos right now Tenacity is good, and there ISN'T a viable alternative (Wriggles outright sucks right now, and all the others have mana regen). Golem helps her survive (HP!), gives her Tenacity, frees up her boots for Mobility or Ninja Tabi, and is the most powerful item for her while wasting the least stats. In this case, it's alright to build it simply because there isn't a better alternative~~

    I'd also have to say you are wrong on Frozen Heart being the best anti-AD item. Randuin's is simply BETTER at diving ADCs due to it's passive and active. Both of which reduce movespeed, and the passive also destroys the attack speed of ANY ADC trying to attack you. Slowing the movespeed of everyone around you adds even more disruption to the enemy team. Frozen Heart also doesn't have the 500 HP that Randuin's does, which is MASSIVE when being a tank in the front lines diving the ADC. If you want to counter fed ADCs and heavy AD teams? You'd build a combination of these: Randuins, Thornmail, Sunfire or Spirit Visage. Spirit Visage is better vs AP, but it still offers health and has CDR, so you can get it if you really want the CDR that Frozen Heart offers. Also, Thornmail ALONE is better vs a fed ADC simply due to the reflected damage. You'll be denying him lifesteal and forcing him off the fight simply by being in his face. Just never rush Thornmail first as you need HP before it becomes effective (armor means NOTHING if you don't have HP as well, which is why Sunfire/Randuins are so popular).

    This, again, is simply another example that you're trying to itemize against enemies but are simply not doing it effectively. Go look at the LCS or any other pro tournament if you want further proof. When facing an all-AD comp, people don't stack Frozen Hearts. They stack Thornmails and Randuins~~

    I've even found some recent games for you to see. Take a look at this past week's LCS. Note how Vi, Shyvana, Renekton, even GRAGAS picks up the following items I've recommended. And note the CONSPICUOUS lack of ANY Frozen Hearts whatsoever in the games, even on champs who use mana (Vi, Gragas). Even LULU and CAITLYN pick up Randuin's in the first game. THAT is how good that item is. Feel free to look through ALL the other games as well. I'm pretty sure you won't see many Frozen Hearts in them (if any at all). It's simply an outclassed item at the moment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac1MYacL-_4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kg9H0uSFSk


    And honestly, if you tell yourself you can't do something (like CS, write, or whatever), you'll NEVER be able to do it. I'm sure you've heard cases where people have recovered or improved their medical conditions. In such cases, they sure as hell didn't give up. If you're so easily dissuaded, then you're not going anywhere in life~~
    I already build randuins its not like i dont get it. as I said previously its one of the first items i get. i often times will bypass lifesteal and go right into Randuins. Please stop acting like I buy heart in place of RO, becuase i don't.

    I used to rush Cutlass randuins for ganking power, but now towers are falling so fast that Liandry's has just become a more and more important item because of its damage output for shyvana in team fighting.

    I mean, this isn't unusual.
    Last edited by Just_Me_Shyvana; 01-20-2014 at 04:00 PM.

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    Randuins/Spirit Visage is good. I'm not sold on the Liandry's but it's not as big of an offender as the Frozen Heart. Basically you should NEVER get a Frozen Heart on Shyvana cos you'd have so many better choices (choose between Sunfire/Thornmail/Warmogs to replace Frozen Heart).

    Shyvana doesn't scale AS WELL with AP (both of your most spammed/damaging attacks scale with AD), which is why people usually get BOTRK on her (better sticking power, %hp damage on Twin Bite is synergistic, etc). Hybrid Shyvana builds do exist, but they are extremely situational and teamcomp oriented.

    Also, stop bragging in post-game chat. A little humility and sportsmanship makes a lot of a difference... and remember, wat you build in Bronze/Silver generally isn't indicative of how good the build is. Your build is a complete joke Gold and up... come to think of it, maybe even in high Silver it wouldn't work well alot of the time.
    Last edited by Senna; 01-20-2014 at 04:12 PM.

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    i wouldnt be so hard with the frozen heart. its actually quite ok as a 6th item against a heavy ad comp.


    mathematically the randuins gives you better AD defense then the frozen heart as a first item but since the nerf of spirit visage (20%-> 10% cdr) the frozen heart can be a better alternative to round up your build ( depending on enemy comp and your other items)


    on a sidenote: i think i'd skip the sorc boots on shyvanna. as a tanky jungler/top the purpose is not to deal a lot of dmg, its more to soak dmg and let the dedicated dds deal more dmg
    Last edited by Unplayed; 01-20-2014 at 04:41 PM.
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  6. #42126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senna View Post
    Randuins/Spirit Visage is good. I'm not sold on the Liandry's but it's not as big of an offender as the Frozen Heart.
    Liandry's is just absurd amounts of extra damage in teamfights, plus the mPen and her E. with sorc shoes and liandrys you'll hit 255 E's that also burn. the more HP they have the worse they take it. hitting for 255 and then burning for 20 per tick 2x a second is a harsh poke.
    Most people do not realize how much magic damage shyvana really does. with liandry's instead of golum she does 10% more magic damage on average. not only that but Sorc shoes and liandry's is pure magic damage to ADCs, and vs shyvana its really really hard to counterbuild agaisnt shyvana.

    And just FYI, my GF plays Shyana top a lot, she's plat 1, or was. She plays AP shyvana every once in a while just to scare people.
    AP shyvana is a crazy powerful build

    Your build is a complete joke
    Stop talking like this.
    This is a directly insulting statement would you really tell that to someone you're trying to get along with? cmon cut it the hell out.

    A little humility and sportsmanship makes a lot of a difference
    no not really it doesn't.
    When I was duoing with my diamond 3 friend, pretty much the same no matter what ELO range, high plat/low diamond to bronze same shit different day.


    This was a low diamond/high plat game


    SAme shit different ELO.



    see?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unplayed View Post
    i wouldnt be so hard with the frozen heart. its actually quite ok as a 6th item against a heavy ad comp.


    mathematically the randuins gives you better AD defense then the frozen heart as a first item but since the nerf of spirit visage (20%-> 10% cdr) the frozen heart can be a better alternative to round up your build ( depending on enemy comp and your other items)


    on a sidenote: i think i'd skip the sorc boots on shyvanna. as a tanky jungler/top the purpose is not to deal a lot of dmg, its more to soak dmg and let the dedicated dds deal more dmg
    Thats the problem though, the DPS on these teams are absolutely...out of touch with how to deal damage. This build is based more on carrying than trusting in competent players.

    Shyvana isnt just a "tank" she's an offtank and a fighter, she's not the kind of champion that just builds straight tank and meat sheilds, shes not designed to do that. Shes designed to be a no-CC disruptor and a semi assassin/tanky DPS. If we were talking about renekton or mundo or sejuani, different stories, but Shyvana while a considerable tank is also a strong DPS.

    Most people fail to understand that what they see in LCS is not SoloQue. What they see in LCS are dedicated teams whom are playing with composition and coordination in mind, not Solo Que carrying.
    Soloque is not the same as champion ships, the play style differs for a multitude of reasons.

    the roles of a champion dont change but how you approach the game on a team and soloque basis is different.
    Last edited by Just_Me_Shyvana; 01-20-2014 at 04:56 PM.

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  7. #42127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Me_Shyvana View Post
    ok i just have to comment
    22k dmg for a 30min game is NOTHING.
    if you say liandry is powerful on shyvana you don't understand how the concept of current %hp shred functions.
    sure, it's great at removing the initial 20% or so, but once they pass ~60-70%, it's nigh useless on shyvana.
    now, couple it with the fact shyvana has 0 ways to apply cc outside of actually building an item and you see where the issue lies.
    there's a reason liandry is rarely picked up on anyone outside of teemo/lissandra/anivia and brand.
    Last edited by Candyholic; 01-20-2014 at 05:20 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by plotto View Post
    ps @varon: its called grammatical errors. so far as i can c, u have no clue about gamer language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candyholic View Post
    ok i just have to comment
    22k dmg for a 30min game is NOTHING.
    if you say liandry is powerful on shyvana you don't understand how the concept of current %hp shred functions.
    sure, it's great at removing the initial 20% or so, but once they pass ~60-70%, it's nigh useless on shyvana.
    now, couple it with the fact shyvana has 0 ways to apply cc outside of actually building an item and you see where the issue lies.
    there's a reason liandry is rarely picked up on anyone outside of teemo/lissandra/anivia and brand.
    Not even Cass or Malz?

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkness35 View Post
    Not even Cass or Malz?
    thing with cassiopeia is she has a very strict (and expensive) core build.
    archangel, rylai, wota and from there on whatever.
    going for a liandry this late wouldn't benefit her at all, + it's the second most expensive ap item.

    malzahar idk, he's weak anyway lol who plays him?
    he has to get (imo) quick cdr (athene/morello) so he can spam voidlings.

    Quote Originally Posted by plotto View Post
    ps @varon: its called grammatical errors. so far as i can c, u have no clue about gamer language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candyholic View Post
    thing with cassiopeia is she has a very strict (and expensive) core build.
    archangel, rylai, wota and from there on whatever.
    going for a liandry this late wouldn't benefit her at all, + it's the second most expensive ap item.

    malzahar idk, he's weak anyway lol who plays him?
    he has to get (imo) quick cdr (athene/morello) so he can spam voidlings.
    Huh, didn't expect you would build athene on him, since he has that mana sustain..

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