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Thread: Automated combat a thing of the past

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    Default Automated combat a thing of the past

    i have been playing action mmorpgs similar to dragon nest, but SEA version is taking a while to raise cap( its soon tho), so i went back to some of my old games like allods and forsaken world and perfect world etc, i could not stand 5minutes of these games, i felt as those i was playing a game on a super Nintendo, they all felt so outdated, the automated combat system should be relinquished from the face of the earth, and then to hear ppl say they are skilled? skilled at what? skilled at having a program fight for u? with the occasional skill cast u use? on PWI ppl( sins and bms with 5 aps) just click on u and they can go afk and ur dead, but a game where u can dodge literally, not an evasion based stat is so far ahead , i may be alone on this but i doubt i can ever play a lame mmorpg like those agian

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    As far as PVP is concerned you are completely right that some games are just dumb. But it's not really a fault of the auto-attacking. Outside 1vs1 battles it's still quite interesting. For example take Ragnarok Online's castle siege or battlegrounds. Even while the 1on1 combat is still pretty boring, the overall tactic and strategy is what makes it interesting. The difference between well organized guilds and just guilds with high level members can be clearly seen.

    I also think action MMORPGs are far superior over point & click ones, but occasionally I still feel like playing one. They are more relaxing. What action MMORPGs still lack is polish. Something WoW and Allods Online have. These games feel just so complete, well thought-out and designed. In action MMORPGs I still miss that feeling. The translations seem rushed, they often force you to repeat the same missions over and over instead of thinking of unique ways to make them more interesting (e.g. random puzzles or events that can occur), they are full of spambots, etc.

    Basically the game everyone is waiting for is an Action MMORPG with open world and as much polish as Allods and WoW have. People put their hopes into Guild Wars 2, TERA and Blade & Soul, but I'm not convinced that they will actually be good.

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    what they need to do i a combination of Eden Eternal and Dragon nest( doesnt have to be same character style) a wide open world would b a gr8 thing to see, but i just cant stand those point click 1v1 games anymore, so imma wait for raiderz( which is open world)

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    Quote Originally Posted by grimhealz View Post
    i have been playing action mmorpgs similar to dragon nest, but SEA version is taking a while to raise cap( its soon tho), so i went back to some of my old games like allods and forsaken world and perfect world etc, i could not stand 5minutes of these games, i felt as those i was playing a game on a super Nintendo, they all felt so outdated, the automated combat system should be relinquished from the face of the earth, and then to hear ppl say they are skilled? skilled at what? skilled at having a program fight for u? with the occasional skill cast u use? on PWI ppl( sins and bms with 5 aps) just click on u and they can go afk and ur dead, but a game where u can dodge literally, not an evasion based stat is so far ahead , i may be alone on this but i doubt i can ever play a lame mmorpg like those agian
    Hey ! Dont insult Super Nintendo :mad:

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    2D games are much more a thing of the past, but still many ppl prefer them over 3D games... maplestory being the greatest example...

    And sure action combat is superior than point and click, but all combat MMOs, like Rya said, ar severely lacking into everything else apart from combat...
    Divine Souls, Vindictus, Dragon Nest, Rusty Hearts... they all have nothing but action and good graphics... they're all about grinding out the same small level again and again, and then some variations of it, and after a while moving to the next... little to no depth in the gameplay, classes are always either generic or limited, and customisation both in appearence and skills is pathetic... they are just glorified hack n' slash and while they are good at that, are not really good as MMORPGs - there is no immersion, no sense of a greater world, or a greater goal... and thus they get dull once their first shine wears off, unfortunately...

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    i agree the gameplay itself is much greater but as others have pointed out are often broken down into little 5-15 minute dungeons where you get a sss-d rating at the end of it.

    There is very little immersion or staying power in those games. To me if you go into one of these games alone you will be bored in a week or 2, the only way to continue having fun is with a buddy or 3.That said i to am tired of auto attack style games they have the polish but they are often severely imbalanced and really take very little skill to be played well.

    What im looking forward to is path of exile the gameplay fits somewhere in between the 2 it isnt automatic seeing as you have to aim but it isnt a beat style combo system either ( i love diablo style combat). Also im a sucker for diablo style random loot generation PoE will have near limiless customization when it comes to gear and the orb system for "crafting" is amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grimhealz View Post
    what they need to do i a combination of Eden Eternal and Dragon nest( doesnt have to be same character style) a wide open world would b a gr8 thing to see, but i just cant stand those point click 1v1 games anymore, so imma wait for raiderz( which is open world)
    I'm curious, what kind of unique features do you think Eden Eternal has that action MMORPGs need?

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    most action mmorpgs i have played arent open world, usually dungeon based, eden eternal has dungeons in an open world( kinda), in DN its a bit hard to find a pt cuz every1 is in town spamming at either of the ONLY 2 entrances, in eden eternal u go to teh entrance of that dungeon and u find teams quicker, u can interact with ppl outside of towns, instead of ram packing every1 in one area that causes ALOT of lag, reference to this is west district in perfect world

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    eh while some 4s games i hate, i dont mind automated attaccing... i liked DA:O alot better then DA2...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rya.Reisender View Post
    I'm curious, what kind of unique features do you think Eden Eternal has that action MMORPGs need?
    proly the ability to switch classes on the fly. or proly the cute characters and atmosphere....or the skill animation. or the big one...open world fighting!

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    Yeah I just asked because I don't think Eden Eternal stands out in anything particular and I think no game should try to copy it.

    I'd rather have Action+Allods.

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    I think it's safe to say point and click is not a thing of the past. Outdated consoles and their games are a thing of a past (literally). Action and Point and Click have their pros and cons in gaming. Action MMORPGs lack depth and story lines and lore but excel in PvP combat, animations and making the game a bit more fast paced (this could be a pro and a con, but simply chose it as a pro). Point and click's are slow paced (Again, pro or con), can get repetitive at times and usually involves a fair amount of walking around with out really doing very much, but some good points are is the depth in the game, the engaging story and lore as well as the easy controls.

    A games PvP is only based on the devs and games expectations. Each have their own separate set of personal skills whether you chose to see it or not. Just because ones time went into mastering and chaining attacks on a Action MMORPG doesn't mean the guy who has been raiding, looting, and crafting gears and leveling up a bit doesn't have them either. Lag isn't so much a problem of the games as it is your fault for not doing the appropriate amount of research on the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutoran View Post
    Action MMORPGs lack depth and story lines and lore
    Vindictus is very deep in story lines and lore as is the world of Mabinogi. In fact one of the more enjoyable aspects of Vindctus is its story and the little pieces of art inserted in between the story line.

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    Dragon nest story line is FAR superior to ANY other mmorpg i have played
    point and click mmos is rather boring, in those u HAVE to get hit no ifs no but or maybes u WILL get hit, bosses u need 4-5 clerics, and most mmorpgs lack story line u al only mention 2 mmos with story lines vindictus and dragon nest story is the best i have ever seen, proper pvp, i rtaher go over another dungeon then grind same mobs over and over agian, they are more challenging

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    As far as Dragon Nest is concerned, I can only talk for SEA but the translation is HORRIBLE. The sentences might have English words, but it's really hard to read/understand them and the synchronisation doesn't even fit to the visuals and the subtitles contain completely different talk.

    The story might be good, but I won't understand much about it. =/

    This is what I mean with that action MMORPGs lack polish. In Allods everything was really easy to read and it has a good story as well.

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    tbh i found allods rather confusing to me...idk

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    They're not exactly "automated" aren't they. Like some games still have an auto attack, but Allods is pretty involved isn't it. For one thing, you're never watching your guy auto attack, you're doing skill combos all the time, actively pressing buttons from 1-0. I mean, so what if pressing attack doesn't chain to make a 3-hit combo, it's still really involved when you're not grinding. Granted you're not getting the same kind of feedback when the monster doesn't recoil or get knocked back like in an action MMO, but still.

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    Yeah it's true Allods Online has no auto attacking but it has lock-on and plays like most 4S MMORPGs. Also combat is really really slow except maybe boss fights.

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    I like open world + auto combat more than instanced world + action combat.

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    i liked DA... alot better then DA2...
    ^^

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    I actually like the automated combat, the difference from playing a game on the PC from a Console game, Action MMORPGs are the easiest crap I ever played sadly. Point and click gives some sort of guaranteed death, action MMOs are sadly way to easy.
    And the best Pvp i have had is in Aion, which kinda merges action and point and click.
    Some siggys I have made.

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    Try playing action MMORPGs with gamepad. Being limited to like 4 buttons + L/R makes it more challenging. =p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutoran View Post
    I think it's safe to say point and click is not a thing of the past. Outdated consoles and their games are a thing of a past (literally). Action and Point and Click have their pros and cons in gaming. Action MMORPGs lack depth and story lines and lore but excel in PvP combat, animations and making the game a bit more fast paced (this could be a pro and a con, but simply chose it as a pro). Point and click's are slow paced (Again, pro or con), can get repetitive at times and usually involves a fair amount of walking around with out really doing very much, but some good points are is the depth in the game, the engaging story and lore as well as the easy controls.

    I think I have to disagree with the one about story and lore. Point-and-click MMOs do not offer better stories. In fact, it's usually a generic one in which your character starts out as an adventurer, helping people and saving different regions one after the other, until you reach hero status.

    I'm playing action MMOs like Dragon Nest and Rusty Hearts, and they really have a story. Rusty Hearts, for example, even if there's no customization (except the costume), they compensated with a very good story. They offered concrete characters with specific back stories, personalities, and attitudes, that is very similar to our classic RPGs in consoles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikfang View Post
    I actually like the automated combat, the difference from playing a game on the PC from a Console game
    Automated combat is not the difference between a PC and a console game. If you feel this way then I bid you to give up PC gaming.

    I bid you to quit PC gaming entirely because most PC gamers want to play a game not watch a script automate our combat experience.

    The proof that WoW was so successful for automated combat means nothing as no other game company came anywhere near remotely close to their level of success and speaks directly to the fact that the ppl playing this game were nothing but blizzard fanboys.

    The reality is real gamers want fun gameplay and automated combat is devoid of anything remotely close to fun. You want to run a bot, a macro or autoit script play WoW clones if you want to have fun playing a game then shun automated combat.

    End of story. No bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grimhealz View Post
    and then to hear ppl say they are skilled? skilled at what? skilled at having a program fight for u? with the occasional skill cast u use? on PWI ppl( sins and bms with 5 aps) just click on u and they can go afk and ur dead, but a game where u can dodge literally, not an evasion based stat is so far ahead , i may be alone on this but i doubt i can ever play a lame mmorpg like those agian
    Even though I think you're right on that point, I doubt whether action combat MMO(RPG)s are really that much different when it comes to "skill". Also, it depends on what you define as skill. I'm also occaisonally bored at hitting 1-9 keys in point and click Mmorpgs like Forsaken World. So a time ago, I tried Vindicuts - and to be honest, I didn't find it any more challanging than the other games. I found myself smashing left and right mouse button in certain combinations and that's it (and as a sidenote - yes, Vindictus does have a more comprehensive story than most of the other point and click mmorpgs!).

    My point is that, if you're looking for some games that require real skill to master, then I'm sorry to disappoint you - but you won't find them in MMORPGS. You'll have to play competitive shooters, RTS, or whatsoever. As the name indicates MMOs are for the mass - a rather leisure genre that anyone can enjoy.

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