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Thread: Western Mmorpg company that keep the Fatigue system

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    Default Western Mmorpg company that keep the Fatigue system

    do you hate when a western mmorpg host take a mmorpg from korea with a fatigue system and still keep the system even though We are not crazy player like korea that stay home 24/7 not going to bathroom and eating.


    The system was was meant to stop korea overdose on mmorpg. but this method hurt players that like doing dungeon with new player but dont want use all there points to help out. this why you dont see new player staying with fatigue system game because your limit what you can do

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    I only hate it sometimes but it keeps no lifers and botters from ruining the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urfrid View Post
    I only hate it sometimes but it keeps no lifers and botters from ruining the game.
    LOL dont stop gold bots. instant play on one character they make million new character each day just grind out the first 20 level quest then change over to other character. and gold bots spammer are still spamming a storm in C9


    i have a life but when i get home from work i want to play game for long time till i go to bed. not have to quiet just because i run out fatigue
    Last edited by NeoJaz; 03-12-2013 at 11:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoJaz View Post
    LOL dont stop gold bots. instant play on one character they make million new character each day just grind out the first 20 level quest then change over to other character. and gold bots spammer are still spamming a storm in C9


    i have a life but when i get home from work i want to play game for long time till i go to bed. not have to quiet just because i run out fatigue
    Pretty much this, if anything the fatigue in certain games will make me wanted to play them for even longer than games without because the bar will make me wanted to use it up fully until it resets.

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    i actually am one of those 24/7 players, and a fatigue system means i dont even gonna play that game at all no matter how good it is. i advice everyone to do the same to let these games die a quick painless death :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhorsen View Post
    i actually am one of those 24/7 players, and a fatigue system means i dont even gonna play that game at all no matter how good it is. i advice everyone to do the same to let these games die a quick painless death :P
    Ditto. Unless there is a workaround where you can effectively play another character that helps make your first character stronger. The biggest deal breaker is when a fatigue system has a cash shop item that removes the limit.

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    games with fatigue / energy system sucks hard.

    as abhorsen said, let em die a quick death.



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    Quote Originally Posted by arapanasati View Post
    The biggest deal breaker is when a fatigue system has a cash shop item that removes the limit.
    the catch.


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    I personally like the fatigue system because it balances out the people who play 24/7 to the people who have limited amounts of time. I do not like the systems where game success is tied into game time. People say that the people who can't play 24/7 can use CS but people who plays 24/7 can also use CS. There will always be an imbalance.

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    I agree with Abhorsen. When games have fatigue I eventually do stop playing them. I try to play other characters and stuff but I really want to just focus on one. The only game I really put up with this for was DFO and even that game got rid of it. There are a lot of games like this on phones. I have played and uninstalled as soon as my stamina ran out the first time. Then you have these flash games on facebook that do the same thing. They seriously have the nerve to charge money for stamina in flash games.

    Thanks Seya!

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    C9 Global kept Fatigue System. Dragon Nest EU kept the fatigue system and (at least for now until they change it) trashed the old system that sea and some other versions have. ^^
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    Fatigue system was not meant for Western games. It only makes sense in Korea where to register to play the majority of games you need a KSSN and phone or whatever activation for your account.

    Having fatigue system on a western game where the only thing that stops you from creating another account is simply registering another email or in some cases not even that is needed...it's certainly quite a pointless feature to have.
    Whoever wants to play for long periods of time will simply create another account/character and keep playing.

    To me, fatigue system is retarded, it has a purpose if the only way to create an account is by using your ID and phone verification...otherwise it's useless and retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamaris View Post
    Fatigue system was not meant for Western games. It only makes sense in Korea where to register to play the majority of games you need a KSSN and phone or whatever activation for your account.

    Having fatigue system on a western game where the only thing that stops you from creating another account is simply registering another email or in some cases not even that is needed...it's certainly quite a pointless feature to have.
    Whoever wants to play for long periods of time will simply create another account/character and keep playing.

    To me, fatigue system is retarded, it has a purpose if the only way to create an account is by using your ID and phone verification...otherwise it's useless and retarded.
    The Fatigue system was made to stop korea from dieding and force them to study more.

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    fatigue system is for bad games that dont have enough content to keep people playing.


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    I think it really depends upon how the fatigue system is used within a game rather than upon if a fatigue system simply exists.

    Games which have a cash shop item to give back fatigue points are generally terrible as more often than not the fatigue system is overly restrictive in such games and is in place solely as a way of making players pay more money. Likewise, the practice of making dungeons take more fatigue per run at higher levels (Mythos certainly comes to mind) is a particularly vile one and is especially bad if fatigue is account-bound rather than on a per-character basis.

    On the other hand, I completely approve of some fatigue systems if they seem to be in place mainly to encourage players towards engaging in activities which they normally would avoid and/or if they are in place in order to prevent players from getting burnt out after blazing through the content (which tends to be much easier to do in action-based mmorpg's because dungeons take far less time to run through than in a traditional mmorpg). DFO's original fatigue system is probably the perfect example of this in my opinion; players had enough fatigue points to play for quite a few hours and there were several activities players could do once fatigue ran out (tower runs and PvP, the latter of which rapidly died out once fatigue was removed) and, since fatigue was 'valuable' as it could not simply be purchased in the item shop (it could be found in lost treasures once those were introduced, but that didn't come until later and the chance of a fatigue potion being in one was pretty low), people tended to want to party up to ensure that they completed dungeons and didn't simply waste fatigue.


    To sum everything up: fatigue systems are terrible when they're just a cheap moneygrab, but when used properly they have the benefits of encouraging players to party up and become a more active member of the game's community so as not to 'waste' fatigue, encouraging players to engage in activities which they otherwise would have possibly never bothered with (making alts, participating in PvP, etc - this also is good for the company as it gives players more incentives to utilize the cash shop), and encouraging players to stick to a steady pace (players who focus solely on rushing to endgame on a single character usually only play for a few days/weeks before blazing through all the content faster than developers can possibly make it and/or burning themselves out and are therefore likely to quit without having spent any money - such players are not even remotely desirable for a company as they don't help to keep the game alive, often will just shout bad press about the game after having burnt themselves out, and put pressure on developers to focus solely on adding more and more content to the endgame regardless of quality; if a fatigue system causes such players to not touch a game it's to the advantage of the developers and publishers and if it causes such players to give in and play at a slower pace over a longer period of time it's a win for pretty much everyone).

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    Its the one thing that will make me not play a game, i don't have time to play 24/7 but on the rare weekend that i do i prefer to be able to play the game i want to play all day and not have my hand held and my baby sitter tell me when its time to get off, im 28 years old after all.

    I also hate the argument of "well i can't play all the time so no one else should be able to!" what are you ****ing 12? if someone has more time you and play legit (not botting) they deserve the advantage not the other way around.

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    Elsword has this even in the NA version.
    Funny thing is even my father who worries that I spend too much time playing computer games doesn't like the system, and when I mentioned that I might make a second character to play when stamina runs out on my main his reaction was "Yeah! Make that second character! BEAT THE SYSTEM!!!"
    He then proceeded to sip a bottle of beer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lina View Post
    Elsword has this even in the NA version.
    Funny thing is even my father who worries that I spend too much time playing computer games doesn't like the system, and when I mentioned that I might make a second character to play when stamina runs out on my main his reaction was "Yeah! Make that second character! BEAT THE SYSTEM!!!"
    He then proceeded to sip a bottle of beer.
    that not really beating the system they want you to make 2nd character then spend money on that character

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    Quote Originally Posted by arapanasati View Post
    Ditto. Unless there is a workaround where you can effectively play another character that helps make your first character stronger. The biggest deal breaker is when a fatigue system has a cash shop item that removes the limit.
    I think i know a game exactly like this LOL

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    I have no problems with fatigue systems as long as it's done right.

    I never had a problem with either c9 or DN fatigue system and you could get plenty out of those games each day if you used the fatigue system right.

    I know not everyone likes being forced to stop playing but it's a good thing for players these days.. It also stabilizes economies and makes the time you play more enjoyable. I would rather play a game with less time with way better drops and exp compared to playing all day for bad drops and exp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technikal View Post
    I have no problems with fatigue systems as long as it's done right.

    I never had a problem with either c9 or DN fatigue system and you could get plenty out of those games each day if you used the fatigue system right.

    I know not everyone likes being forced to stop playing but it's a good thing for players these days.. It also stabilizes economies and makes the time you play more enjoyable. I would rather play a game with less time with way better drops and exp compared to playing all day for bad drops and exp.
    The main thing most (not all) people in western area have with Fatigue system is that they have little appreciation for the game or the dungeons (in a dungeon based game since most fatigue systems occur in these types of games). That being said, they take the unlimited dungeon runs for granted, and when they're forced to limit themselves, they can't find it in them to do so.

    One of the reasons these action MMOs with fatigue systems do so well in the asian countries is because the people have learnt how to deal with the systems, and also have gained a deeper appreciation for the game and the dungeons they run from it. It forces you to think what the best combination of dungeons is to run each day or week, because you are limited. The drops and eventually crafted items feel more rewarding because you've worked hard to get it, not just farmed non stop every day.

    What most western companies fail to do is to implement a fatigue system properly in which the players don't feel that they are being heavily restricted. C9 does a great job with the fatigue system. I wish more games with fatigue systems (and I can see more games switching back to those systems eventually) had systems like it. :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powster View Post
    fatigue system is for bad games that dont have enough content to keep people playing.
    Pretty much this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exeunt View Post
    Pretty much this.
    Well, the thing to keep in mind is, with very, very few exceptions, fatigue systems are in place specifically in action mmorpg's with town hubs so it's not so much that they have 'less content' as that they have 'content which takes less time to go through'.

    Traditional mmorpg's have you spend a lot of time walking; you walk back and forth for quests, you walk back to town if your equipment breaks, you walk back to town if you run out of potions, you walk back to wherever you were if you die (and let's hope you set your home/save/return/checkpoint in the nearest town!), you walk/fly between towns if what you need is only in a specific town (ex: it's not uncommon for skill trainers to only be found at major cities), and you walk to dungeons when you want to party up for some instanced content (and then proceed to wait for the other 4/9/14/24/59+ friends/guild members to walk to said dungeon from wherever they are). It's probably safe to say that at a bare minimum 10 out of every 100 hours a person spends playing a traditional mmorpg is spent simply walks while significantly less travel time is required in a town hub.

    Secondly, traditional mmorpg's tend to have more resting than action mmorpg's (unless they allow for potion spam). This varies a lot from game to game, but in a traditional mmorpg you will almost inevitably spend at least some time simply sitting/standing in place while you watch your HP and MP gradually refill itself (unless, of course, you buy that inevitable cash shop potion which has a separate cooldown timer from other potions) - usually this only takes about 10 seconds to a minute at the absolute most, but again, this adds up over time.

    Lastly, there is the matter of how long party-based content actually takes, especially endgame content. While it is one of the more extreme examples, let's take a look at the rather infamous first raid dungeon of WoW - Molten Core. In this particular dungeon, a group just starting out would need somewhere between 50-60 people (a feat in itself which could easily take a half hour or more just to organize). Boss fights alone take a fair number of minutes, and could easily take an hour+ if the team is inexperienced, but of course the real timesink is in the trash mobs between fights, which are horrendously tedious and respawn after a certain period of time unless their corresponding boss is killed - in all, a 'smooth' run of Molten Core done by a team with appropriate-tier gear (i.e. good enough that they can actually handle it, but not already fully decked out in gear from Molten Core itself or later dungeons) would take roughly 4-6 hours. Now, Molten Core is certainly a bit of a strawman example in terms of quality - it's infamous for a reason after all - but that number of '4-6 hours' tends to be on-par for the average run time of an endgame dungeon in most traditional mmorpg's. Keep in mind also that most pay-to-play mmorpg's (and some free-to-play ones though to a lesser extent) also limit the amount of endgame dungeon runs players are allowed to do to once or twice a week, a restriction which is already arguably far worse than a fatigue system if the game in question puts its focus mainly upon endgame dungeon runs (which most pay-to-play mmorpg's post-WoW do indeed do).

    On the other side of things, action mmorpg's tend to stick to smaller party sizes even for their 'raid' dungeons with a group size of 10 being decidedly on the large side of things (this is likely to limit lag due to all the effects that would be going off with a raid party in the standard 15-20+ size and because it would probably be impossible to make anything out due to said effects, a rather large problem in a game where you need to manually dodge attacks), so there is less time needed to get everyone together and prepare things. In addition, combat moves faster in action mmorpg's and they tend to focus more upon minibosses and bosses in their endgame dungeons than upon trash mobs between boss fights. As a result, a 'long' endgame dungeon in an action mmorpg generally would have a completion time of about 30 minutes, maybe 1 hour if it has some sort of crazy super-boss at the end, which is certainly a far cry from the 4+ hours of an 'average' endgame dungeon. Not to mention, action mmorpg's rarely have other standard endgame timesinks, such as walking around in low level areas looking for plants/ore to gather or grinding up reputation with various factions, so the standard 'once or twice a week' lockout timers on endgame dungeons either simply don't exist, or only take a day or two to expire so players go through these dungeons faster and more often.

    In other words, action mmorpg's have fewer timesinks and shorter dungeons than traditional mmorpg's and fatigue systems are their way of ensuring that players don't blaze through content faster than the developers can create it and the publishers can release it (and when Western publishers *do* remove fatigue systems in games such as DFO and Rusty Hearts, PvP dies and everyone hits the level cap and sits there complaining about content not being released fast enough until they inevitably quit); just because a dungeon in an action mmorpg takes less time to run through and prepare for, it does not mean that it takes less time to develop.

    Now, as for people who only get one or two days a week to play a game in a huge block, it is a 'true' complaint that the fatigue systems work against you, but I do not think it is necessarily a 'valid' complaint. To put it simply, mmorpg's are a business and their primary purpose is making money and to make money they need to have at least some sort of 'target audience'. People who only can play a game for a large chunk of time on one or two days and who are interested neither in making alts nor in participating in PvP are simply not the target audience for most fatigue system games (unless a company aims to make money off of its fatigue system, at which point the quality of the game itself is usually hurt by the system rather than strengthened by it), much as people who can play just about any day, but only at a specific time and only for 1-2 hours aren't really the target audience for games which focus on endgame raid dungeons which absolutely require a solid 4+ hour block of time.

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    SuperKenshin's Servent Reputation: 47

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    To the above post...yes, fatigue "makes sense" on dungeon crawlers like C9, DN and these. But you forget something...it makes sense if you can only have ONE account or ONE character, otherwise it's pointless because people who wants to play 15 hours of farming a day will still achieve it by creating multiple accounts or characters.

    Fatigue system is not in place so you rush content at a slower pace, at least not in the west. The only purpose of fatigue is to not make people adicted to a game and force them to take breaks...something that may work for example in Korea since people probably can't make 20 accounts due to KSSN and verifications needed while here in the west having multiple accounts on a F2P game is quite common and simple to do.

    Games that have any sort of fatigue system pretty much come from Korea, not removing that feature for western versions is quite dumb imo as it makes no sense to have it.
    Last edited by Adamaris; 03-15-2013 at 07:29 PM.

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