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Thread: Awesome People in Religion

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    Default Awesome People in Religion

    I like how some religious people say that you don't need to believe in God to be a good person. It makes me stop and think when religious people quote Karl Marx: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people" and then point-out that atheism takes away our guilt over doing wrong things (like stealing)! I found it comforting to know that every good deed would be rewarded in the afterlife, and every bad deed would be punished. I wish I had never become an atheist, but if my search for truth and morality leads me to reject the existence of not only the Biblical God, but also the Hindu/Buddhist/Gnosis God which is synonymous with the Universe itself... My rejection that there is a sentient entity greater than humans which cares about human suffering allows me to perceive human suffering and act with more consideration towards other people's perspectives. Yet on the flipside, my rejection of atheism allowed me to perceive the beauty and eloquent structure of life and the universe! So I love it at 52:05 when Cardinal George Pell says that it's the job of atheists to explain goodness and the job of religion to explain suffering. At 41:59 Catholic Cardinal is saying that atheism is fine. And at 32:40 he tells us that Adam and Eve is a religious story told for religious purposes to try to explain the evil and the suffering in the world.


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    So many ungrateful *******s. "Well, he hasn't sold the Vatican yet so I'm not impressed. He's just putting on a show of kindness and humility." Seriously? So it's all or nothing huh? This little nudge in the right direction isn't worth anything because things still aren't perfect? Well, your world obviously sucks. Because in mine, I see a pope who finally wants to set an example of acting as Christ did for all of the millions of Catholics in the world. And having grown up among all that, I can assure you that there is no greater lesson they need to learn.

    The Catholic Church sucks, but that's no reason to denounce this guy's lead-by-example awesomeness. If you hate the social disease known as religion, then you should actually love this man, because he's doing his best to alleviate some of the symptoms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercedez Mendez-Whitehurst
    I'm an Atheist and I like this guy. He's humble.
    Let me give my interpretation: it is the job of atheists to treasure truth, and the job of religion to treasure morality. So it is hypocritical to use religious beliefs to promote evil deeds, or to use atheist beliefs to promote deception. I think the best argument for religion is that it provides morals to our perspective, and the best argument for atheism is that it provides rationality to our perspective. I personally think that understanding moral relativism from a rational perspective allows us to follow our morals even better!! But in the end, everything is just an opinion. If people around me want to be religious, then I can humor them for the sake of politeness, even if I have no soul or spirit. Religion postulates a benevolent God to state that life is fair, or death is not the end, and thus encourage people to do good deeds by offering incentive in the afterlife, and discourage people from doing bad deeds by providing a source of guilt or retribution. I can't hate people for seeking some sort of fairness in life, and a meaning behind their existence. If you feel that believing in karma and heaven helps you to be a better person then you're probably right. But if you can't find God, then you can still be good by having empathy and being altruistic I wanted to commit suicide when my empathy for the lives that I indirectly exploit made me feel that the shit I give others outweighs the value of my existence. But surprise surprise - we have survival instincts.

    ...

    Those are my thoughts when I hear religious people tolerating atheism. I personally would rather be religious... But I'd want to find one that doesn't have a God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenoca View Post
    Those are my thoughts when I hear religious people tolerating atheism. I personally would rather be religious... But I'd want to find one that doesn't have a God.
    You should look into the eastern religions such as Taoism and Buddhism. They don't believe in a God-like figure but they are very spiritual. IMO, I do find that eastern religions to be a little less hypocritical than western religions.

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    Sokrates asks:
    If there is a difference between truth and morality, how does it look like?
    We need to know. How else can we avoid the false morality and stay with the truth?

    If there is any difference between religious morality and the truth and everything that isn't true is deception, and religion exists for religious morality, religion is deception.
    Last edited by Ronin; 12-08-2013 at 02:16 PM.

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    I really dislike christianity, but Pope Francis is awesome.

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    also i identify more or less as an atheist, but richard dawkins can go eat a dick

    http://www.vice.com/read/richard-daw...rport-security

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    That's hugely off-topic, but what is her point? That asking for sex is sexual harassment? In that case she does actually not have a clue what she is talking about.

    That people disagree with her the way they do might be a whole load of crap, but who can agree with this? What is the right mode? Does she have a form you have to mail and a certified save and fair vetting and approval process?

    The guy in question is assumed by her guilty of being ready to violate her decision before the fact.
    With that idea in your head, you will never be save. Also, if there is no way to communicate consent, that doesn't promote the concept of consent at all.
    #nonawesomeatheists
    Last edited by Ronin; 12-08-2013 at 04:04 PM.

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    Personally, I am a somewhat recent convert to LaVeyan Satanism. I find that the concept of rewards for good things is bullshit. If you want to do nice things then dont do them for a reward. That is what I have taken to calling false samaritanism. I do what I feel like doing and I dont hide my true nature. I admit it, I am an *******.

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    To definitely believe that there is or is not a god is to show ones denial of possibility. In other words, Agnostic or GTFO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jin-Roh View Post
    To definitely believe that there is or is not a god is to show ones denial of possibility. In other words, Agnostic or GTFO.
    Redacted, because quote-post is flamebait and anyone who tries to sound smart on this is just dumb.
    Last edited by Ronin; 12-08-2013 at 09:28 PM.

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    I feel like being Agnostic is the only way to go. Until there is proof that a god exists, or proof that there isn't one, everyone just believes what they want to.


    I have to admit though, this new Pope is awesome. You would think the leader of Christianity would try to lead by example, and we're finally looking at a pope who does.


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    I'm a special kind of deist apparently.
    Something has triggered the creation of our universe. I don't give a **** if it's a person or just a random act of nature. Besides, even if there'd be a god, he's already long gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postrook View Post
    also i identify more or less as an atheist, but richard dawkins can go eat a dick

    http://www.vice.com/read/richard-daw...rport-security
    I opened that and noticed the name Rebecca Watson, and immediately closed it. That person is a total ****ing *****, she started a video about helping fund cancer research with a huge misandrist tirade against men in, what I can only conceive as, an attempt to alienate half of the people who support cancer research. She's a ****ing tool, suck it up for 30 seconds when you're trying to appeal to a worthy cause instead of sabotaging it. She tried to have t-shirts that say that people are 'just skeptics' banned from conferences because they offended her.

    Anything that woman says you HAVE to look at the other side of the story, she's a ****ing poisonous tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettblatter View Post
    I have to admit though, this new Pope is awesome. You would think the leader of Christianity would try to lead by example, and we're finally looking at a pope who does.
    Sell the Vatican, feed the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by xBlazex View Post
    sorry for you have the evil heart in the universe. your type are just destroy are world
    The battle of science vs. religion ended when churches started putting lightning rods on their steeples.

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    It's not Winter around OnRPG without a thread about religion or the lack there-of.

    [19:45] ♥Moloko Lynx♥: Flight sims would even suit you, Riz. You seem to have the sensibilities of an old man.
    Member since May 8, 2004.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pok View Post
    I opened that and noticed the name Rebecca Watson, and immediately closed it. That person is a total ****ing *****, she started a video about helping fund cancer research with a huge misandrist tirade against men in, what I can only conceive as, an attempt to alienate half of the people who support cancer research. She's a ****ing tool, suck it up for 30 seconds when you're trying to appeal to a worthy cause instead of sabotaging it. She tried to have t-shirts that say that people are 'just skeptics' banned from conferences because they offended her.

    Anything that woman says you HAVE to look at the other side of the story, she's a ****ing poisonous tool.
    I wish people, especially men, would have this same reaction to misogyny. Here on the internet, most of them just laugh.

    Please keep in mind, I watched the video a couple years ago, so every detail is not fresh in my mind. Please feel free to correct me if I should happen to document an inaccuracy.

    I'm not sure I know the full details of the incident, but I believe she verbalized her sexism incidents at the event and a man later proceeded to follow her on an elevator and ask her back to his room at 3:00 in the morning for coffee.

    Let's break this down:

    1. During the event, she describes what we can assume are her experiences with sexual harassment and likely how it made her feel.
    2. Later, a man follows her to a secluded, inescapable elevator to...
    3. Ask her back to his room for coffee...
    4. At the pitch dark hour of 3:00 A.M. when most people are assumed to be unconscious.
    5. Noting: going back to one's "place" also implies sexual activity (not always, but it is a common notion).

    Many details are left out. Like, is this man intentionally or unintentionally aware of her previous speech of sexism and her description of how it made her feel? How exactly did he ask her? Were there other people conscious in the building enough to take notice if she should happen to scream for help? Etc.

    Women in NA are raised to be very wary of men. This behavior is also perpetuated by a direct defense created by the culture of victim blaming raped/sexually harassed victims. People constantly spew the nonsense of "well, if you weren't drunk, that wouldn't have happened." "If you had a sober friend, that wouldn't have happened." "If you didn't walk outside at night, that wouldn't have happened." Etcetera.

    Therefore, women are sensitive to what could potentially be red flags. While the man did indeed do no harm, he triggered her alarms that are ingrained into women from birth. I don't feel the man should be scrutinized, but I do feel the man, and all men, should be educated on why women would react with such concern and that it's really not a good idea to trigger her alarm if you can consciously help it.

    Now you may be thinking it's not a man's responsibility to "coddle" women in such a way, but I don't consider engaging in respect as such a negative connotation. Nor is it just a "female coddling" thing, but a people thing. I, too, do my best to avoid offending one's gender, religion, race, culture, status, etc. if I can help it. If I can learn and receive advice from others to gain perspective other than my own, I am appreciative.

    I don't recall her video being vocally offensive other than her expressing that the incident set off her defensive triggers and that men should avoid a similar situation out of respect for women. Nor do I feel this advice is unnecessary or null, because such incidents do occur. I do feel there are other more effective and less offensive ways of such an interaction.

    Furthermore, if she had accepted his offer and was raped and/or murdered, I feel people would be saying something along the lines of "well, there were tons of red flags, she should have known better." This type of reaction happens far too much.

    Again, the man should not be punished nor be scrutinized in any way for his behavior, because he essentially did no harm. But I do feel a bit of insight on the woman's perspective on such a situation could help his future female-endeavors and potentially dating experience.

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    Why should I have to be so self-conscious of negative stereotypes? If I am lost and ask a woman for directions and she flinches and walks past me averting her gaze, am I doing something wrong? If I initiate a conversation with someone in an elevator, am I doing something wrong? If I am tall and drive a van, does that make me a pedophile? If I have a beard does it make me a drug dealer? I don't care about discriminatory stereotypes, so why should I take the time to research the stereotypical behaviour of negative stereotypes just to be afraid of acting in a stereotypical manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by TuxedoSam View Post
    expressing that the incident set off her defensive triggers and that men should avoid a similar situation out of respect for women.
    So I should not talk to anyone who is a different class, ethnicity, gender, or social-strata, for fear of "offending" them? I don't give a **** if people with black hair are considered emo or people with deep voices are considered rapists or people with beards are considered drug-dealers. If someone suspects I'm a criminal then too bad for them. It's not my job to go up to strangers trying to convince them that their paranoia is unjustified. Otherwise I would have short hair with plenty of cosmetic facial products and walk in shiny black shoes and a boring black suit and a boring black tie and never make eye contact with anyone and only speak when spoken to and only hang-out in rich upper-class areas and carry a musical instrument around and wear glasses and carry a bible and eat with chopsticks and wear my hat straight and not have any writing on my shirt and make sure my collar is folded and my sleeves are buttoned and my hair is conditioned and speak like Gandalf and keep my nails short and wear a belt and use many-syllabled synonyms for every short sentence (e.g. "hi" becomes "salutations", "good morning" becomes "greetings", "what's up" becomes "how goes it?"), and state my every opinion as a question(?) instead of a statement.

    Oh - and never wear bright colors, because then other men will assume that I want to have sex with them.

    EDIT: Yes I get that I also stereotype and complain about other people being acting selfish not empathising with others. But if seeing a random guy walking past you on the street brings back scary memories, I'm sorry but I have no way of knowing that me not having my shirt tucked-in is causing you such trauma.
    Last edited by Phenoca; 12-13-2013 at 09:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenoca View Post
    Why should I have to be so self-conscious of negative stereotypes? If I am lost and ask a woman for directions and she flinches and walks past me averting her gaze, am I doing something wrong? If I initiate a conversation with someone in an elevator, am I doing something wrong? If I am tall and drive a van, does that make me a pedophile? If I have a beard does it make me a drug dealer? I don't care about discriminatory stereotypes, so why should I take the time to research the stereotypical behaviour of negative stereotypes just to be afraid of acting in a stereotypical manner?
    I think the real question you're asking me is "why should I be considerate to people?" You have the choice not to, as everyone does. But you should also expect people to respond negatively towards your inconsiderate actions, especially if the reaction is obvious and could easily be avoided (E.G. NOT telling a fat guy that he should eat less. While this may or may not be a true statement, there are politer ways of expressing the opinion, AND in many cases not even your business and place to comment.). That is a fact for every race, every gender, and every culture.

    I am not saying you need to be so self-conscious of negative stereotypes, but rather, more aware of differing perspectives. I understand you may not know every person's/culture's specific offenses, and you don't have to, but knowing some basic offenses can only be beneficial to you and how you communicate with others. This is why general advice articles and videos are abundant. So people can gain knowledge and advice on how to interact with certain people, how to behave in another country, etc.

    Addressing your examples: No offense, but your defense is baseless. You're using mild examples without context that cannot compare to Rebecca Watson's circumstance. I gave five consecutive factors that when summed up equated to a situation that could be considered potentially suspicious than just a blanket statement of "some guy asking a girl for coffee."

    So I should not talk to anyone who is a different class, ethnicity, gender, or social-strata, for fear of "offending" them? I don't give a **** if people with black hair are considered emo or people with deep voices are considered rapists or people with beards are considered drug-dealers. If someone suspects I'm a criminal then too bad for them. It's not my job to go up to strangers trying to convince them that their paranoia is unjustified. Otherwise I would have short hair with plenty of cosmetic facial products and walk in shiny black shoes and a boring black suit and a boring black tie and never make eye contact with anyone and only speak when spoken to and only hang-out in rich upper-class areas and carry a musical instrument around and wear glasses and carry a bible and eat with chopsticks and wear my hat straight and not have any writing on my shirt and make sure my collar is folded and my sleeves are buttoned and my hair is conditioned and speak like Gandalf and keep my nails short and wear a belt and use many-syllabled synonyms for every short sentence (e.g. "hi" becomes "salutations", "good morning" becomes "greetings", "what's up" becomes "how goes it?"), and state my every opinion as a question(?) instead of a statement.

    Oh - and never wear bright colors, because then other men will assume that I want to have sex with them.
    No, nor did I imply that. But if your appearance correlates with your behavior, it's only natural human survival instinct that kicks-in and causes a reaction. Sometimes it's completely not justified, sometimes it is. In Watson's case, we do not know what the man-in-question appears like, and I have no idea how she reacted to the man because I was not there. None of us were. All we know is that she made a video explaining it is wise not to do what this guy did. Which I stress, again, was not simply "some guy asking a girl for coffee." Please refer to the numerical list in my first post, if you should need to.

    Also, don't get the wrong idea. I am not a fan of inaccurate stereotypes and judging others based solely on stereotypes. But to some degree, I feel you should accept that there ARE situations where there is basis for certain reactions to specific stereotyes, and that you can avoid conflict/misunderstandings and blossom new relationships if you acknowledged and understood differing perspectives.

    EDIT: Yes I get that I also stereotype and complain about other people being acting selfish not empathising with others. But if seeing a random guy walking past you on the street brings back scary memories, I'm sorry but I have no way of knowing that me not having my shirt tucked-in is causing you such trauma.
    Which is precisely WHY the video is beneficial for men who view it. So they can attain this information, recognize potential triggering behavior, understand it, and avoid it. I don't want you to be paranoid, but the whole situation wasn't just "guy asked girl for coffee in an elevator." It was an accumulation of several suspicious factors summed up into one semi-extremist situation. The guy wasn't an actual threat, but that doesn't mean women won't feel a brief moment of threat from an accumulation of their surroundings.

    To be honest, I feel what the man did was OBVIOUSLY potential triggers, to the point that I think the man did it on purpose TO offend her. Alas, this is only speculation, not to be taken as fact.

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    I've had a girl burst into tears because I took a moment to remember her name. Maybe I sounded like a serial killer or made her feel inferior but she greeted me by name so I tried to remember hers and she burst into tears when I paused before saying her name.

    tl;dr - upper-class white male appearance is overrated. It's not my job to worry about YOUR sex-life. I get TONS of shit just for being a guy. I understand that guys are generally sexist on the internet. But taking the example of someone asking someone out for coffee to discuss the topic of feminism which she just gave a talk on - and extrapolating that example to infer that men should treat women as mentally-fragile IN THE NAME OF EQUALITY - sounds dumb. Women aren't mentally-fragile. Maybe some are. But I'm not a sex-offender nor a criminal of any sort (I may pirate some music and anime) but treating everyone as a potential sex-offender in order to prevent people from blaming you when you get molested ... Go ahead and treat me like a sex-offender because I'm male. Plenty of guys think I want to have sex with them because I have a soft voice and a girly laugh. If you are turned-on by my appearance or my voice tone I don't give a ****. If you are offended by my DEMEANOR - then YES - I can correct myself IF YOU TELL ME. But you - ... Are asking me to give you the benefit of the doubt that EVERY SINGLE MALE is a rapist. And I disagree. Most people aren't rapists, and I DO try to be polite. But I am NOT going to wear a hijab or treat a girl as mentally-fragile for the sake of conforming to what YOU think men should look like. Because someone who is in a bad mood can find ANY reason to be petulant about my demeanor. And to all of you males scared that I'm going to rape you - sorry but I'm not gay nor am I a rapist.

    The suicide bomber who killed 170 people in Karachi in 2007 is believed to have been a one year-old baby
    They grow-up so fast...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Lure her, by asking her, if she wants to...
    The idea of personal responsibility is essential to sex. Without the ability of a grown up woman to take it, every act of sex is coerced rape. Women, I tell you ffs, take that responsibility already.

    It's not the men starting this BS games about negotiating back and forth without ever talking about the thing. It's not the men that claim almost every time, that sex just magically accidentally happened to them. It's not men that want women to try to coerce them, men don't want to be seduced and usually they don't really want to seduce either. Men would prefer honesty and straightforwardness and fairness in this. Not by going against nature and by ruining every situation, but by taking into account that we all can make rational decisions and do the right thing, when we take the time and try.
    +1
    Last edited by Phenoca; 12-13-2013 at 04:54 PM.

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    (disclaimer: Not about awesome Religious folks, so if you just want to read about that, feel free to skip)

    I really hat it when I walk home through some park at 9 pm and girls steer clear of me by hugging the other side of the walkway, which is about 3 sidewalks wide. It makes me a little bit angry. Not because they might be afraid of me, which they in the moment can't turn on and off. It's because I have to feel bad about walking that walk at all. Why? Because all of them sure as hell won't. They won't feel bad about treating me like some sort of danger. I have to feel bad about scaring woman. Great isn't it? I am just walking my damn way home. It's a public space, I have every right to be there...

    All of this is irrelevant though, when it comes to active accusations. Harassment is not asking a question. If he planed to force himself on her in that elevator, he wouldn't ask. How dense can people be... Oh, he was trying to lure her to his room, after that do the deed... Lure her, by asking her, if she wants to...
    The idea of personal responsibility is essential to sex. Without the ability of a grown up woman to take it, every act of sex is coerced rape. Women, I tell you ffs, take that responsibility already.

    It's not the men starting this BS games about negotiating back and forth without ever talking about the thing. It's not the men that claim almost every time, that sex just magically accidentally happened to them. It's not men that want women to try to coerce them, men don't want to be seduced and usually they don't really want to seduce either. Men would prefer honesty and straightforwardness and fairness in this. Not by going against nature and by ruining every situation, but by taking into account that we all can make rational decisions and do the right thing, when we take the time and try.

    This guy tried to do the right thing and he gets flak for it. This is not coming from a culture that makes sexual relationships work out. This is from a culture that breaks the concept.

    Woman can do better.

    @TuxedoSam:
    Woman are not sensible to red flags at all. They are just sensible to responsibility and blame. You can't avoid getting raped by saying "no" and changing to the other side of the road. You can try to make it more clear that you are the victim, but you can't avoid it. The story is though that this is something that happens to less than few people ever. A lot of women get sexually harassed, all of them get discriminated against, but violent sexual assault and rape from a stranger is something different to that. The responsibility avoiding part clearly comes from the concept that woman are actually not in control of their sexuality, which they are in our day and age. Some lewd jokes, hurtful as they might be, don't change that a woman can say no and that the state defends their no with force and so does society. However society is less patient than the law. This is because since the way society treats woman has changed, women need to change the way they act. If they don't everyone will just go back to the way it was, with men taking w/e they want by brutality and women trying to look as innocent as possible in that process that they have no control over, while treating every guy in existence like a monster. Or they can of course take responsibility and laud men who actually ask nicely, what their wishes are, ready to take a yes for a yes and a no for a no. Take an active part. Make everyone's life better. Heck, if women would do that, earth would be damn near paradise.

    I also love how friends got this like what feels like 20 years ago...
    Last edited by Ronin; 12-13-2013 at 12:40 PM.

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    This thread is being derailed. Time to get back on topic. Or is a lock imminent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1nGs3N4yuk1 View Post
    This thread is being derailed. Time to get back on topic. Or is a lock imminent?
    Duno, if a mod gets annoyed with the off-topicness, they probably could just put a "hey guys if you don't want to talk about what the thread is about, make your own threads" message here. People contributing to the derail should have done that anyways, including me I guess.
    (Skipping from derail directly into backseat modin, like a real G)

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TuxedoSam View Post
    I wish people, especially men, would have this same reaction to misogyny. Here on the internet, most of them just laugh.
    I think that you misunderstood me, I don't have a problem with jokes (Stereotypes in videos that's intended to be funny, poking fun at whatever target, fine), I don't have a problem with feminism, and I don't condone misogyny. The problem I have is with that woman, that selfish, man-hating, hypocritical, free speech-hating, my-agenda-is-more-important-than-cancer woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by xBlazex View Post
    sorry for you have the evil heart in the universe. your type are just destroy are world
    The battle of science vs. religion ended when churches started putting lightning rods on their steeples.

  22. #22
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    asking dudes to shut up for a sec so there's room for a woman's voice to be heard is not free speech hating.

    telling dudes it's not ok to say misogynistic things is not free speech hating.

    it's the exact opposite, in fact.

    if women are in a hostile environment where their voices are not heard equally, or in a hostile and negative environment where they are discouraged from contributing then they do not have the same freedom of speech as men do.

    she doesn't hate men, either. she hates sexist dudes... for being sexist.

    as for the cancer bit I dunno and I don't really care lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenonight2 View Post
    as for the cancer bit I dunno and I don't really care lol
    What you were looking for is "false dichotomy". At least that was what I was thinking.
    Last edited by Ronin; 12-13-2013 at 11:45 PM.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenonight2 View Post
    telling dudes it's not ok to say misogynistic things is not free speech hating.
    She petitioned to ban a shirt from all conferences that she intended to attend because it said, "Just a skeptic." on it because the female wearer of the shirt didn't want to be called a skep-chick (Her brand).

    That has NOTHING to do with feminism, that's about her being a tool.
    Quote Originally Posted by xBlazex View Post
    sorry for you have the evil heart in the universe. your type are just destroy are world
    The battle of science vs. religion ended when churches started putting lightning rods on their steeples.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    What you were looking for is "false dichotomy". At least that was what I was thinking.
    haha I know right

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