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Thread: If ghosts are real, is God too?

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    Default If ghosts are real, is God too?

    I just spent several hours watching a show called "The Haunting Of...<insert celebrity name here>."

    Basic Summary: This medium and host, Kim Russo, takes a celebrity back to the place where he/she had a paranormal experience. Throughout the episode, she not only uncovers the reasons or potential reasons why the spirits caused a haunting, but she also speaks on behalf of relatives of each celebrity. She pulls out names of the relatives, specific gestures of the relatives, times, and personal events and conversations, all that would not be known to anyone but the celebrity.

    While each episode engulfed me and fascinated me greatly, I spent the whole time wondering if the medium somehow heavily researched the celebrities extensively prior to filming and/or if the celebrities were acting, or if she is a legit medium.

    If it is an act, they did a really good job convincing me.

    But if she really is a medium and can communicate with the dead, this means several things for me I'm not sure I'm willing to accept:

    1. God is real.
    2. If God is real, does that mean I have to follow religious dogma?
    3. I don't want to follow religious dogma.
    4. I don't want to exist in an afterlife.
    5. I don't want to be in "limbo" when I die.
    6. Don't take my comfortable atheism away from me!
    7. Aww shit, I'm mindfvcked.

    Although, part of me KIND OF likes the idea that my grandmother may be able to hear me when I speak aloud. I have a lot of guilt and hatred towards myself. I was her caretaker for the last couple months she was alive. I'm only hopeful for the chance to redeem myself. I want to make her proud, and I want to know that she isn't angry at me.

    Fellow atheists/agnostics, do you believe in ghosts? If so, how do you rationalize the existence of ghosts with the nonexistence of God?

    Religious/God-natured fellows, do you believe in ghosts? If not, how do you rationalize the nonexistence of ghosts with the existence of God?

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    I think some religions don't believe in the afterlife, or believe you don't exist until you are rezzed. I don't believe in ghosts because I haven't seen any indication to believe I should believe in ghosts. I have a hunch ghosts don't exists because I assume ghosts would require human souls to exist, and I am almost certain that I don't have a soul. Maybe some other guy has a soul so he can get a ghost and stuff. I'd have to hear the recordings (voices) and see the holograms (ghosts) and witness the magnetism (psychokinesis) before bothering to consider the existence of ghosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jin-Roh View Post
    How does any of that connect to the existence of god?
    Well for starters, it would indicate that the existence of intelligent life not based on solid and liquid states of elements from the periodic table is possible. This would lower skepticism surrounding any "God"s defined as being non solid/liquid periodic table of elements based... Many theists believe that God is energy-based (not carbon-based) and that if there were a carbon-based God on Earth then we'd have already detected him/her/it. I.e. Many theists believe that the "God" they worship is made out of the same substance as ghosts. So evidence of intelligent ghosts would provide the basis for a scientific model explaining an intelligent "God".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jin-Roh View Post
    In no way does that mean that they are dead or that there is a god, simply because there is more to life after death.
    Well whether God exists or not, what is the point of believing in God if people don't have an afterlife? (Other than social and morale benefits (not moral - I said morale).) For the people who believe that we don't meet God until after death, believing that we have no afterlife defeats the point of believing in meeting God after you die since that'd be a paradox to experience something when you don't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jin-Roh View Post
    It is fact that the human mind can trick itself into seeing things that are not really there. Thus I conclude due to this fact, that while I have seen ghosts, they were not actually there.
    Hue. I have felt the presence of God, and heard God speak, and seen the miracles of God, and been comforted by God, and conversed with God. Yet God doesn't exist so I was hallucinating (like when people fap, or imagine the plot for a fiction novel). I have also spoken to Santa Claus and Jesus-in-heaven and various anime characters, but contrary to my imagination the laws of Physics still hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashis View Post
    A more logical explanation for the kinds of supernatural events that happen are just things yet to be understand about this world. Humans aren't exactly the most perceptive creatures
    You have evidence of supernatural events? Share your sources with us so we can appease our curiosity.

    Actually - even if there were intelligent life not based on the known elements, then we'd still have found it, because we have radio/microwave/infrared/UV/X-ray/gamma ray sensors, we have eyes, and we have religious people. So if a religious person found evidence of God then they'd easily be able to spread that knowledge. **** we even have a neutrino detector. But no reliable contact with God except human imagination. And if the God in your imagination is not the same God as someone else's, then that fulfils the definition of "imaginary" - existing only in the imagination..

    So... Next topic: If zombies are real..?

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    How does any of that connect to the existence of god? No really, I have no clue how you made that connection. In the infinite unknown of the universe, there may very well be ghosts, or at least beings that we believe to be ghosts. In no way does that mean that they are dead or that there is a god, simply because there is more to life after death. Even if god were real, that does not mean that a religion, or any religion for that matter is correct. Nor does that mean there is a limbo. Being a ghost could very well be heaven or hell, if such things exists. Now with that out of the way, I've seen ghosts. However, I deny the existence of such. It is fact that the human mind can trick itself into seeing things that are not really there. Thus I conclude due to this fact, that while I have seen ghosts, they were not actually there. Now, I do not deny the possibility that ghosts are real, I simply choose to follow what we consider to be proven reality until the facts say otherwise. I hold the same view with god(s), tho I've yet to see god(s) or anything associated with them.

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    Ghosts existing or not doesn't mean god exists or not. They can be two separate cases. Assuming one verifies the other is a mistake.

    A more logical explanation for the kinds of supernatural events that happen are just things yet to be understand about this world. Humans aren't exactly the most perceptive creatures on this planet when it comes to basic senses, especially in regards to sight, hearing and smell.

    As for the information the medium found out: it's more likely that research was done either beforehand or during the show and she's being fed the answers through a device. Or the people are actors and it's fake altogether as most these shows are.

    I don't believe in entities, they either exist or they don't. My belief doesn't make it so either way.
    Be careful of what you say, tomorrow or today, for the words you now speak, may become the poison your enemies later seek; truth.

    "Rules do not exist to bind you, they exist so you may know your freedoms"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenoca View Post
    I think some religions don't believe in the afterlife, or believe you don't exist until you are rezzed
    Like a proper gamer


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    I don't believe in heaven or God by the conventional means, but I do believe we are all part of a higher consciousness. Our time spent in our meat puppets is temporary. We are all one, and everything is one. I don't necessarily believe that we ascend into some next level shit when we die, but we become the earth itself, thus realigning us with the cosmic ebb and flow of the universe. We all came from stardust, we will all return to stardust. It is beautiful on a level that no standard religion can offer me. I look into the stars at night, and despite not knowing anything about anything, I feel welcome and at home - not lost. :]

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    We all believe in different things. I my self believe in god. Aslo in demons as i have seen them. I know it sounds crazy. Ive seen them in the form of visions. They hunt me just about every night. Ive seen hell in visions and it is a bad place. But from what i have seen its fire there like the bible but i have seen other stuff as well. I feel the dead it seems. Because when i am alone i can feel this energy around me. Most of the time it is negative energy. Ive seen things while being awake that i cannot explain. Ive seen beings with black wings hovering over my bed. Im sure its the angel of death but not sure. I here things call out to me a lot but i cannot always make out to what they are saying. But yes there is a god. But there is a ton of beliefs out there. So which is right and which is wrong. Ive always been tought to believe in Jesus. But there could well be more then one spirit realm. Who knows. Only true way we will know is when we take our last breath. My self i will believe in god and learn my faith. But will not force it upon no one. Its for you choose to believe are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duby View Post
    post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

    Not that I'm disagreeing with you. Whatever makes you feel alright dude...but what you just described is schizophrenia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oisterboy View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

    Not that I'm disagreeing with you. Whatever makes you feel alright dude...but what you just described is schizophrenia.
    i have been diagnosed schizophrenia many years ago. but i know what i feel man.

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    You feel an extreme chemical imbalance causing hallucinations and delusions. If believing in God helps you deal with all of that, more power to you dude. Perhaps that is what God is meant to be - the thing that comforts us.

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    Answering the topic title...I say no, I don't think it follows.

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    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Why do we still have a to character limit fj;klafja;lk

    [19:45] ♥Moloko Lynx♥: Flight sims would even suit you, Riz. You seem to have the sensibilities of an old man.
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