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  1. #31
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    @TuxedoSam: "You're preaching silence."
    No. I am against using the wrong tools. See this article is a good example, because it draws such a wrong picture, by coming down on "man". What do you learn from that? You just unlearn.
    I am not for silence. I am against crawling into a cave. I am against exclusionism and yes, avoiding exclusionism is more important than hammering home w/e message. If you can't get the message to the streets, by getting yourself a comfortable circle that just shouts everyone down, you don't accomplish something. You just fail more spectacularly.

    Thats why I am listening and talking to everyone that is listening, but I wont even waste my time talking to someone who preaches that way. Its always just people who can't admit they are completely wrong. Its sad that the loudest shouters are listened to the most.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postrook View Post
    i know this might piss off some people, but whatever, fvck em, imo this is an intelligent article discussing a fact of how the internet is

    http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/twitt...gynistic-abuse
    Actually, both people were women and one of the posts was specifically a story about a misogynist situation.
    The other one was about racism and white privilege, so one was accused of hating men and the other was accused of hating white people.

    *gets on a soap box for a quick moment*
    People need to understand that sexism and racism isn't an individual thing, you can't just assume when someone brings it up they're pointing fingers at you specifically to call you out.
    *gets down from soap box and offers everyone a cookie*

  3. #33
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    When it comes down to it, a lot of people are evil and simply kept in check by laws.
    Anonymity + No real repercussions allow that to flow out on the web.

    I strive to make sure my Evil Level does not hit anything beyond Sarcastic Ass occasionally.

  4. #34
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    I am really finding it hard to believe in a culture of man relentlessly harassing women. Discriminating on the job, I can see that. Inappropriate jokes, well, definitely a thing. I can't picture a 35 year old dad going on the web and harassing women. I don't know for sure, since I don't even have all to much second hand knowledge about that, but it sounds odd to me, the whole idea of it.
    So what I am sure of is, that teens and late teens (males) often are like that. I would assume, that for the same psych. reasons, namely that of failure, some people get stuck on it and keep intensifying their crusade, over admitting that they are wrong. So this is the voice of male puberty and guys who couldnt really get through it. Now this is really not proven. The thing is I don't know what to think, when I hear the terms of "rape culture" and see the word men thrown around in the same context as the article does it and things like blaming testosterone for the ****ups that adult man make (down to how business or int. diplomacy supposedly works...).
    I don't feel that this is relevant to me. I don't feel like I should listen to that. Let me bring an example: I might be prejudiced against gays, since I have things happen to me that where, by the written definition stalking and again from others sexual harassment. Not enough to put fear of being raped into me (there was enough unwanted attempts of what one summarizes with foreplay). Of course this is also a topic that gets marginalized and not talked about and I wouldn't be imagining how to hold someone else in a conversation about it. People, even very close friends would weasel out of having to talk about any of it, let alone support or help me. I understand how all of this works. I also get that a guy who tells anyone to "not be square and have a little fun" while trying to pull his weight through threatening body-language is a horrid jerk and that forcefully giving someone a kiss is not "showing that person what fun is".
    It's however not true that this behavior is relevant to me culturally, directly. I do see that society is culturally complicit in covering up sexual abuse, but not in condoning it, or in making it happen. The guys and girls who can't talk about it are the majority and the problem the general culture has, not the actual acts. They are isolated and they are not generally condoned. They are just covered up.
    I am personally at a loss why many modern feminist outlets do not name those animals by their name. It makes me wonder, if all they are about is an intellectual substance-less reshuffling of the facts into seller-articles and ideologies that are worse than the truth and harmful to the idea of an equal society.
    If you ask people what feminists want, they are generally clueless. They don't understand it, both men and woman. Where does that come from, when it should be easily doable to explain their agenda? Why do the stupidest cases get the biggest spotlight? Why are simple connections left as mysteries intentionally? How did we get to this point, where none of the people who try to steer the debate encompass the idea of equality anymore? Its clear that there is something going wrong here.
    I personally would love to know how to be less of a jerk, but the people who are calling me a jerk are jerks who don't want me to...
    Finally ironically, the mature people are even more going to ignore any feminist message that calls them a rapist to the face on no grounds and the lesser mature guys, well they are ready to pick up the chance for any decent fight. Not making treating people as equals the centerpiece doesn't accomplish anything at best and at worst, it encourages what it calls the enemy so it might "better fight it". Thats retarded and gets us nowhere.

    /rant.
    Last edited by Ronin; 01-23-2014 at 07:45 PM.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lina View Post
    Maple Story isn't exactly known for friendliness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    @TuxedoSam: "You're preaching silence."
    No. I am against using the wrong tools. See this article is a good example, because it draws such a wrong picture, by coming down on "man". What do you learn from that? You just unlearn.
    I am not for silence. I am against crawling into a cave. I am against exclusionism and yes, avoiding exclusionism is more important than hammering home w/e message. If you can't get the message to the streets, by getting yourself a comfortable circle that just shouts everyone down, you don't accomplish something. You just fail more spectacularly.

    Thats why I am listening and talking to everyone that is listening, but I wont even waste my time talking to someone who preaches that way. Its always just people who can't admit they are completely wrong. Its sad that the loudest shouters are listened to the most.
    Why does it matter what medium is used as long as the message gets across? Do you honestly think you would have heard about this story if it was anywhere else other than the internet? Probably not, but you have. Success.

    Times have changed. Most people get their news and information from the internet. Moreover, a blog is not only for news, but for people to express their thoughts about their opinions, data, and factual occurrences.

    The article condemns men it's directly referring to. If you are not a rapist, predator, misogynist, etc., then it's not referring to you. However, that doesn't mean it's irrelevant to you. A little exposure and acknowledgment can emit more empathy and action, from everyone.

    I don't feel the article was offensive to men as a whole. I don't recall anything similar to "men are heinous." There are men who do bad things and that is what the article is about.

    In regards to your rant, I only read a small portion: I know for a fact many men do what the article says. When I was 15-16, I used to frequent Yahoo Chat Rooms. I would be spammed by men of all ages with vulgar messages. Most of the time, I would just receive webcam requests to view their webcam...constantly. I eventually blocked all messages and requests through settings.

    When I was new and naive, I accepted a few and it was always a man masturbating. Sometimes the webcam request would bug and accepted anyway and fullscreened automatically...which was terrifying because my brother was sitting next to me and I actually was afraid of penises at the time because they were ugly and unknown to me.

    Additionally, I've also experienced much older men than me hitting on me and sexually aggressive towards me via other online chat mediums and WoW. I also happen to have an extremely perverted dad who has traumatized me. Not to mention, most people have at least one friend who has been sexually molested by a man. I have more than one. Therefore, this information doesn't surprise me. I'm actually surprised that you're in denial.
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  7. #37
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    @TuxedoSam: Fist here, let me reply to the part concerned with statistics: Those are really the cornerpoint of the story and before I start another rant, let me just say, I don't have them, so that's that. (I am fairly certain no one has any of the numbers on any of the issues here down, they are new scenarios, or the numbers are difficult to get.)

    On the thing about labels and men and how the article was "ok" or not "ok":
    I'd be angry, if the article would put a "this is what woman do" statement in it once. Mind you, once. If the article does the same thing with "men" ten times (didn't count) I am frustrated. I could be alone in that, but if you are saying, "hah, you need to ready between the lines, it's no big deal", that's a big schizophrenic sounding to me. Those 2 things are one and the same thing, there is no difference.

    See, we don't seem to stick to one topic here:
    Men threatening woman with murder and violence is in my book a different spectrum on the harassment scale to men looking for sexual contact with minors. Can we please make this into some coherent narrative of what happens without using the term men in it, to blanket term the super group of all the number of offences? You see, the group categorizes the offences put in it, not the similarity of the offences. That's what, in the usual course of things, earns words the followup "ism". I am not cynical about this, I am trying to make sense of how that can work out...
    I don't care to blur the lines here and discuss the question of a disturbing lack of style vs. lack of attention, general rude form, etc. No one wants me to spin complicated sentences for my own sake. If I want to read a proper article on behavioral ethics, I just wonder where I could. All I read is this and similar stuff, that fails the task at hand on the most basic level. You can't compromise on a solid foundation for an argument and this one is built on quicksand.
    Last edited by Ronin; 01-23-2014 at 11:29 PM.

    Stay frosty.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    @TuxedoSam:
    I am just replying to the part concerned with statistics, those are really the cornerpoint of the story and before I start another rant, let me just say, I don't have them, so that's that.

    On the thing about labels and men and how the article was "ok" or not "ok":
    I'd be angry, if the article would put a "this is what woman do" statement in it once. Mind you, once. If the article does the same thing with "men" ten times (didn't count) I am frustrated. I could be alone in that, but if you are saying, "hah, you need to ready between the lines, it's no big deal", that's a big schizophrenic sounding to me. Those 2 things are one and the same thing, there is no difference.
    No offense, but how old are you? I am genuinely curious.

    There are articles of things women do. And "women" are also included in the analytical comparisons.

    How do you feel the article should be presented then? They use the term "men" because they're talking about men. I don't understand what you expect them to say? They're not saying ALL men. They're using a specific number or a generalization based on factual statistics, according to their data.
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  9. #39
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    Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting something here, but is this one of those situations where sexism is brought up and someone doesn't like it because it makes that person offended because they're male?

    That's like saying in history class, "Stop talking about slavery, because I'm white."

    ............
    Ya know, I think it's me not wanting to deal with disagreeing with people on subjects I'm passionate about when it comes to Tumblr and stuff like that.
    I don't know how to debate well, and I fear the debate turning uncivil in a threatening or abusive manner.
    I take things too personally when I shouldn't.
    From now on I'll be on whatever site I want to be on, and slowly but surely learn how to deal with people even if it gets stressful!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lina View Post
    That's like saying in history class, "Stop talking about slavery, because I'm white."
    You can slaughter me on that, if you think I am a bad person roast me on a slow fire.
    I have always believed that my biggest crime is to try to be honest, but I might be mistaken.
    (Feel free to call me an idiot, if you can live with the fact that I will ponder it for a couple of days. Even if I am deflecting as you say I might be, I do generally not let myself of easily and it's imo better than just turning away.)

    I am not claiming the key to knowledge. I am trying to figure something out that doesn't make sense to me.

    (You seem to agree that the question in this matter is in nuances. I am not that elegant in my mother-tongue, so I can just try to hit the right notes.)

    @TuxedoSam: Man made it for thousands of years, on being "just a little sloppy". I am a somewhat ethical person and I don't like untidy spots, that's all.
    (Uh my age, 20ish does still cut it, lol)

    Seriously I am kinda relieved that you guys bother to answer at all. See, we could try to get this onto the topic of abusers and such and how they are what they are, but honestly, I would just try to come up with technicalities about how to deal with them and the takeaway might just as well be that I am deflecting responsibility to the government, or even marginalizing certain crimes, since I don't believe in revenge justice.
    Last edited by Ronin; 01-23-2014 at 11:55 PM.

    Stay frosty.

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