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Thread: is it just me...or is it the mmos?

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    Default is it just me...or is it the mmos?

    This might be a bit long post, but it covers a lot of years of gaming in mmos

    THE SHORT VERSION:
    I think i either played waaaay too many mmos and my expectations are too high ,making them not fun to play ( not worth my time then) OR the current mmos offer the same thing that i already been trough...for years..
    (If im having fun spending my time on a game, it better be fun, otherwise its a waste of my time)

    THE LONG VERSION THAT EXPLAINS MORE:

    I've been playing mmos for a loooong time now. I remember my first ever "mmo" experience was playing yugioh and resident evil online on BYOND (fan made multiplayer 2d games). I was about 14 at that time and i had tons of fun playing those games, actually making friends and chatting around.

    At around 15 my brother bought me Guild wars Prophecies (the original). That was my first "major" mmo/coop rpg that i played. My brother and i, with the help of the awesome guild we were in played trough all the campaings and dungeons and quests and missions and that single game gaved me 2-3 years of fun experience.

    After about 2-3 years i pretty much finished everything that it had to offer me, so i decided to look for some other mmos.
    Then i started playing LaTale (on the EU server aeria games used to host). The game has almost nothing similar with GW1 but it was still a amazing game .

    I played that game un till the EU server shut down, and i had bad lag on OGPlanet NA server so i couldn't play it there.

    So after LaTale, i found about MMOHUT, and i started looking into other mmorpgs...but i usually ended up playing them for a few weeks, a month or two and then simply quitting ( while they were fun to play for a while, eventually they become either too grindy, too pay to win, to much hackers/bots, too deserted etc).

    I was even turned off by GW2 after playing it for around 8 months recently cause of a buggy dungeon that made my party and me waste 1 hour only to fail to blast open the gate at the start of the dungeon... not to mention someone from the party even used speed hacking to try to pull the mobs away from the rest of the party so they can try to carry the kegs with explosives to the door...still failed... Not to mention the other bugs,small and big.

    I tried everything, from perfect world, forsaken world, Rift, tera, aion, dragon nest, eden eternal, shaiya, battle of the imortals, neverwinter,rusty hearts, 12 sky1/2, mabinogi,rohan online, LotRo,allods,maplestory, grand fantasia, soul of the ultimate nation,ragnarok, requiem , league of legends, runes of magic...world of warcraft and a whole bunch of others......heck i even tried ultima online .....

    none of them seem to be fun for me anymore....

    And i recently figured out why...

    Besides the fact that some are just too damn grindy ( 3 weeks of hard core grinding to get from 44-45 in a game with a lvl cap of 100??) , and some are just too damn p2w ( buy -with cash- a vial of 100 000 hp/mp that replenishes your hp/mp when it gets low automatically in a game with absolutely no hp/mp regen and normal pots cost an arm and a leg..oh and when the vial runs out..you buy another one !) And alas , some that i find extremely unique and fun are simply deserted (requiem ).

    They all feel like single player games!
    They all advertise them selfs as those huge MMOs with hundreds of thousands of players that you get to "play" with...but you spend all of your time leveling alone!

    Go play rift, and youll be playing lvl 1-60 solo (dungeons and skirmishes/instant adventures and other instances dont count)

    Im talking about the core questing, runing around and killing stuff leveling experience, which is a HUUUGE part in a mmo rpg and the best way to spend it is to be alone (cause its the only normal way to lvl...why would anyone whos lvl 40 go to a lvl 10 friend and run around in a newbie area 1 shot all the mobs he needs for his quests.... it actually ruins your friends lvling experience )

    And personally thats one of the biggest problem i have with mmos... i wanna so******e, i wana hang out and chat, i wanna meet people and meet friends and play a massively multiplayer game together...instead everyone goes and does his own thing, in some games people barely even talk!! (try out neverwinter, while its a great game...you are soloing trough quests from lvl 1-60, occasionally doing few dungeons-> WHERE NOBODY TALKS,EVER. Just so you can, after spending weeks, months in your lvl 60 char, join a end game guild and do some dungeons....)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So honestly, If anyone knows or is playing a mmorpg where you can spend most of your time playing with other people rather that spending 70% of your time running around and questing alone please do share!

    In the mean time...ill be playing Dust an elysian tale, lfd2, terraria ,minecraft...even age of empires II cause to be honest...the games that i spend time on should be fun...the SINGLE PLAYER games i mentioned provide me with more fun than a MMOrpg in which you spend 70% of time questing repetitive quests alone so you can lvl up for weeks in order to get to the part of the game where everyone stops running around solo and starts grouping up for dungeons/raids/pvp...

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    The only "real" MMORPG for me is Ragnarok Online. When it first came out, I get to party with other players to get exp by battling stronger monsters. When not leveling, I hang around with other players just to chat and stuff. But all of this are gone now. Just like you I've tried a lot of MMORPG's. IMO, I think we're just looking for games that has something new to offer but still incorporates the good-old-MMO spirit of party-leveling and stuff.

    At the moment, I'm still playing Ragnarok Online but on Private Servers. I don't like the 3rd class--they're OP and not balanced. I'm also playing Eclipse War from time to time since they're on CBT. Other MMORPG's that I'm playing includes Dragon Nest and Eden Eternal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amalager View Post
    The only "real" MMORPG for me is Ragnarok Online. When it first came out, I get to party with other players to get exp by battling stronger monsters. When not leveling, I hang around with other players just to chat and stuff. But all of this are gone now. Just like you I've tried a lot of MMORPG's. IMO, I think we're just looking for games that has something new to offer but still incorporates the good-old-MMO spirit of party-leveling and stuff.

    At the moment, I'm still playing Ragnarok Online but on Private Servers. I don't like the 3rd class--they're OP and not balanced. I'm also playing Eclipse War from time to time since they're on CBT. Other MMORPG's that I'm playing includes Dragon Nest and Eden Eternal.
    pretty much the same for me as well, the only thing that came close to that feeling of playing RO was WoW. Once I got the PvP gear I needed from Arena's, I just sat around and chatted with some buddies.
    From time to time we would go around together and PvP.
    Had some awesome times with the group too, we would all rush into Iron forge and take shelter in one of the small buildings, people would come in one by one and just die.

    Now.. I try to play the game for the game itself but honestly, its no where close to being fun without a good group of friends to play with.
    Yeah the game itself may be fun for what it is, but I just can't get sucked into it like I did with RO and WoW.
    LeagueofLegends-ChuckleButt


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    It's not you, it's definitely the MMO's. Or maybe it's us?

    I used to play OldSchool MapleStory. It used to be a Lot of grinding, but, hell, it was still fun because of how many people played. How many friends I made. Sometimes I would just log in to hang out, play mini games, have fun. 6 hours of playing, and I didn't even get 10% to get to the next level. And I'm talking about when I was around lv 30, (level cap was 200). It was just fun.

    Nowadays, I go back to it, it's all about competition, who's the best, pay for this, pay for that. I reached level 144, without making a single friend. That is extremely disappointing and depressing. The friends I made back in the day are still with me today. 7 years of friendship because of a childish online game. I wish it still provided this kind of fun. I totally see you bro.

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    A friend of mine was talking about how the newer games it gets so easy to solo content now that the meaning of MMO's has changed. You don't really play with other people anymore... :S

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    Check out games like ArcheAge, Wurm Online, Mortal Online, Everquest Next, etc... Basically anything that is advertised to have sandbox features.
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    OP, you have a few options :P

    1. Play more single-player games. RPG, or RTS are awesome.
    2. More Sandbox MMOs.
    3. Study game development :P
    It's WNxPyrZern. Pleased to meet you. My 3D Character Artist Folio

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    Remember when we used to play games because they were fun?

    Now MMO developers strongly lean toward quantity over quality. They think the only way to achieve longevity is to make players grind for a sense of progressions. It's not.

    After 10,000 dead goblins, 25,000 retrieved baubles, and 4 emptied bedpans grinding feels like grinding. Regardless of whether the game is new or old it kills the experience fast because we've done it countless times before.
    The next generation of MMOs needs to take a new direction.

    As already stated, linear grind style is out. Players should want to play the game because it's fun not because it's their second job.

    Players need to care about their world. Most developers seem to build a world and stick a plot in it.
    The story should come first.

    I would personally build an MMO like a single player game. Have a good 10-20 hour single player experience then unleash the players into the world. No levels just entertaining, fun content.

    Note I have a bit of ADD and it's really hard for me to focus/organize my thoughts, especially when I am getting tired. So, this is about 32313 words shorter than I intended.
    Last edited by FarmerM; 03-03-2014 at 07:53 AM.

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    The days where you sit around leveling on monsters for hours and chatting with friends are pretty much gone, people basically said they hated that. PvP and endless endgame MMOS are all that exist because that is what people asked for. For me the last game that existed like what you are describing was Glitch and that shutdown.

    I remember back in high school how much I looked forward to coming home and playing Maplestory or Ragnarok or Fairyland with my friends and just talking for hours about everything and nothing. How much we looked forward to finally reaching a level or finding a rare drop. Talking while waiting for our MP to recover...That's the kind of stuff that was fun to me and what I have fond memories of. All that social stuff is what makes an MMO and MMO and they've basically removed all of that in exchange for "follow this questline to the end of the game!" and in a few days to a week tops you're there. Without the grind, it just really seems like a lot of what you work for isn't even worth it.

    Hopefully, we'll get a taste of what we miss when Tree of Savior comes out. That game looks and sounds like it might have the potential to reawaken that spark in gaming that seems to be missing, but I don't want to get my hopes up too much. I've kind of settle down with some games to kill some time and provide me with a decent social experience. The "Raid" style games such as Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Warframe where you spend countless hours hunting bosses or killing monsters for drops and exp are keeping me busy. And they are really enjoyable to play with people.

    Side note but there's an anime/manga called Log Horizon that depicts what MMOS used to be like and what made them fun. They just don't make MMORPGs like that anymore and it's a damn shame.
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    The same social experience can be achieved without insane grinding.

    Someone of the first online games I played were not grind based yet had very active communities. I made lots of friends playing the old Delta Force and Jedi Knight games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerM View Post
    The same social experience can be achieved without insane grinding.

    Someone of the first online games I played were not grind based yet had very active communities. I made lots of friends playing the old Delta Force and Jedi Knight games.
    To be honest, yeah it can. It's just most games don't, not unless you really work at it.

    The grind though provides a reason to do more than just that, since after a while it can get old without something else driving you to play. A lot of folks though don't even notice the grind in games when they play with friends. I can't begin to count all the times I leveled in vanilla MS without ever paying attention to the exp bar rise just because I had my friends to talk to and sit down and recover MP with (and this was back when you were getting like .02 -.03 exp per kill at level 30.) It wasn't the grind itself that made the games more fun, it just created a situation where you'd be playing the game for a long time and want to talk to people to help kill the time.

    But the grind also made it so that things such as builds and getting certain gear were way more important because you used them a lot longer.
    "Rules do not exist to bind you, they exist so you may know your freedoms"

    Be careful of what you say, tomorrow or today, for the words you now speak, may become the poison your enemies later seek; truth.
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    the world seriously needs more sandbox mmos.
    i've never been so engrossed in a game(archeage) since vanilla wow.

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    Well it all depends on your guild. I'm sure you can find a guild on Elder Scrolls or GW2 or any game out there. Just research a good guild to join before playing!

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    They focus the game on killing stuff... or at least doing quests. And now the social aspect is long gone.

    In Ragnarok Online, back in the days, people sit around in front of Orc Dungeon to chat while they regain HP! Then they go inside, die, respawn and resume the chat again. In Yulgang Online, players also have to meditate for awhile to regain HP/MP. Many games had it like that. Now ? HP/MP regen fast to full when out of combat for 10 seconds.

    3D camera behind shoulder games also make it harder to see chat bubbles. By the time someone finishes typing, the other already run away killing more mobs already.

    Quests in most MMOs are designed to solo. Pick up quest A. Go kill B. Report back. Pick up quest C. Go fetch D. Report back. etc. Too much time running back and forth. It's harder for players to sync their progress. Whereas if the time it takes to do the quest is longer than the time to run back and forth, it will promote players grouping up. (in or not in same party) Either that or it's 10 players waiting for stupid quest mobs to spawn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashis View Post
    ...
    Thanks man. Checking out Log Horizon now.
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    Personally i have nothing against heavy grinding, or doing quests. Its the fact that i'm encouraged to do it alone that bothers me.

    Like someone mentioned, its hard to stay in sync with a few known friends yet alone to randomly meet someone half way in their quest chain and continue to play with them....

    The last game that i used to play that encouraged players to group up and do stuff together was Guild wars 2...but not fully..

    While the game lets you fully explore the world and doesn't punish anyone for attacking someones else monster(no KS) people still tend to simply roam around alone.. rushing trough the map, unlocking all points of interest,vistas, small quests. they all do it alone.

    the only time when people tend to group up is on dynamic events that randomly show up...but after its been compleeted..people simply move on in all directions again..

    That, and new content that comes every now and then. But people in that case simply pile up in zergs and run around the map finishing stuff.

    The only "true" grouping where i made some friends were champion runs,where a group of players jumped from place to place in a map ,killing champions for their loot....

    As a player with several lvl 80 characters in GW2, im left with my guild (from gw1) and im doing server vs server pvp, or arena pvp..or a few guild dungeon runs (but in a fast, speed clear, only x y z classes allowed, and stack in a corner so the boss doesn't hit us as much kind of way)..

    At the moment, im playing Dust an Elysian tale, or i go and host up my survival world server in minecraft and play with 4 other players using hamachi...and sometimes i host up a adventure map so we can play trough that.
    Cause even tho sometimes we split up and do our own thing, we still chat in the mean time via skype or TS. And its always fun to come visit someones else home/base/castle/...town

    ill be sure to check out some of the games you folks mentioned
    Last edited by Moon Moon; 03-03-2014 at 11:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Moon View Post
    -------------
    So honestly, If anyone knows or is playing a mmorpg where you can spend most of your time playing with other people rather that spending 70% of your time running around and questing alone please do share!
    ...
    i was a bit like you and i spent a long time really thinking hard about precisely what i wanted out of an mmo.

    if your key criteria is where "you can spend most of your time playing with other people" then it is hard to go past the RvR open PvP format. This is where the mmo format guarantees 100% that once you get to a higher level, you will always be involved in intense persistent world team pvp wars. There are very few games which do this format and do it well :-

    DAOC- try the f2p freeshards (Uthgard and Genesis)
    Champions of Regnum - f2p and is not pay to win.
    Aika Online - not a bad RvR game.
    All of the above have a strong social and war aspect.

    I would also mention GW2 but i can see u didnt quite like it. And that's all. There are no other RvR open pvp games which are not pay to win. That's it. Some games like RF online and MU Online are RvR open pvp, but they are buy to win. Lineage 2 does have pvp but you cannot kill enemy players freely.
    Be warned - I am a major player of Regnum Online the mmo. I've been playing it for about 2 years and rarely go without logging in at least once a day. You can also look at good alternatives to Regnum such ase Aion online and Aika Online.

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    while im always looking forward to do rvr or pvp, they always keep them locked away for the end game...

    Currently i consider my self a casual gamer, as in i can spend 1-3 h on a game per day (work and RL and stuff..)

    The problem is that i cant see my self leveling alone for weeks just so i can eventually, after a month or so START playing with other players in RvR or pvp. Joining guilds and comunicating with them via chat/ts/skype and form groups to have great fun together in some form of pvp or end game dungeons and such.

    I know some game have great end game content,pvp, pve, or just casually siting in some sort of town, crafting, chatting ,trading and stuff... but there is a good month of daily solo lvling (at least for me) that i find boring before id get to participate in that end game content...

    And whenever i mention this to any of the friends i meet while im till leveling all i get are suggestions and tips on how to skip 80% of the content and "power" lvl my self so i can get to the end game the fastest possible way in order to actually start "playing" the game...

    As for gw2. Dont get me wrong , i like the game, ive been playing it for around 9 months now. i have a fully exotic geared up guardian,thief, elementalist and a necro(some even have full ascended accessories)....i just got turned off by the amount of dungeon leetizm/bugs, skipping group contents (do it your self then, or wait for a few hours to find a group to do it with)

    I used to play it on a daily basis, now i just log in whenever my guild hosts a wvw or a pve event...

    Im just looking for a mmo rpg where i can play with people from lvl 1...instead of soloing for weeks,rushing towards the end game just to be able to play with some groups...

    Quick eddit: i just remembered playing archlord and having tons of fun making a small clan of random players (not a guild, just around 6 players on friends lit). we made a band of our own that was lvling together and defending each other form anyone who dared to fight us..good times
    Last edited by Moon Moon; 03-03-2014 at 01:17 PM.

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    give moba's a try, no real grinding and requires team play through the game.
    games usually last 30 minutes - an hour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WerewolfX View Post
    give moba's a try, no real grinding and requires team play through the game.
    games usually last 30 minutes - an hour.
    i have, ive been playing lol since it came out. But lately i only play duo with a friend on bot lane..but thats like 5 times a week..

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    The best game i ever played was a very small-hell grindy-ultra p2w title named Tales of Pirates distributed by IGG. This was like....ehrr... 8-9 years ago(?) if i'm not mistaken lol.
    The game was not this big title, and as i said was super grindy. Also IGG is a greedy company and i remember myself spending hundreds of cash on it, but thinking back i had so much fun on that game that i don't regret any penny spent. And this because i had fun. Lots of friends, practically i never did anything alone on that game and was very challenging. There were extremely hard dungeons to do, guild wars to battle, open and instanced pvp, and even if the highest lvl when i left was 90 and took me 2 years to reach to it (LOL yeah ahaha!! ), well i never found another game to give me so much fun and satisfactions as that little game did. I was totally hooked, i could stay awake nights without sleeping, days without eating just to don't go away from pc. I remember having gaming sessions of 3 days long not shutting down the pc and checking often because there were portals that were opening only for short time just only certain days and we were entire guilds fighting to get possession on those portals. We were not using voice chat, screw that lol...we were having fun chatting on game when needed and how many times we were dieing because of this reason, was funnier. Ahhh i have so pleasant memories thinking back to that game.

    After that, the only game that gave me something similar was City of Heroes, but not as much fun as ToP did. I think i will never find anything that can even came close to the experience i had back then.

    Atm i went back to TERA and even if i do like alot the game and sometimes i play with my sister, well...is not that fun as it could and should be. This because of the community i guess. I have hard time to make friends for some strange reason and the guilds are not as they were once on the older games, nothing is as it used to be years ago and i feel like the good old times of the mmorpgs as i knew them has come to an end for me.

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    This thread is depressing

    Its true, what has happened to the things that make an mmo special...

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    Honestly, I'm pretty sure it's you (and I, and most other gamers). There's currently a generation of gamers who are enjoying MMOs just as much as I can. Your first MMO is special, you wont get that exact same experience again without a lot of searching and the right group of friends. It's a special kind of situation where you are awed by what you are experiencing and everything is new. You're meeting new and interesting people and chatting with them while participating in a game that you thought could only exist in fiction.

    Once you get past your first game, things change. You're not a vet, you're used to it all. You play a new game and you notice it's basically just the old game with a new skin and a few tweaks. You don't know anyone, and you don't bother to try and get to know anyone. It's just meh and you don't like it.


    There are two tricks to get past this feeling and start enjoying MMOs again.

    Join a very tight-knit and cooperative guild. One that uses voice-chat like TeamSpeak or raidcall. Having people to chat with, try new games with, and help encourage each other, goes a long way in keeping your fun-factor high. I've made 5,000+ word posts on the reason you should join these types of guilds in the past.

    The other thing, like I mentioned, is to find sandbox games. These are the type of games that allow you to actually effect the virtual world in some manner. Be in player politics, housing, land ownership, etc... Most people who feel the way you do have been playing themepark MMOs without even knowing that Sandbox games are out there. Wurm Online, ArcheAge, Mortal Online, Darkfall, Xsyon, Shores of Hazeron, etc... there's a lot more than you would think out there. Playing sandbox games will help rekindle that new and awe-inspiring feeling you got in your first MMO, because the developers of these games like to try new things so you're actually discovering and learning again.


    A third trick is to supplement your game time. Realize that if you play MMO(s) non-stop, you're going to get burnt out. Pick up single-player or arena-type games to play alongside your MMOs. Not having a good day in your MMO and need a break? Log out and play League... or BF4, or Banished, or Assassins' Creed, or whatever else.
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  24. #24
    Marios's Mustache Wax Reputation: 10

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    For me, what killed games was that every game came out with Story Quests.
    So you're never in the same part where your friend is, or whatever it may be. And you just finish one, get on another, finish one, get another.

    Not like old Maple Story where they just had a bunch of different side quests with their own stories (Which still exists today in any mmo, but nobody does them because it's not worth doing over story quests).

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Moon View Post
    while im always looking forward to do rvr or pvp, they always keep them locked away for the end game...

    Currently i consider my self a casual gamer, as in i can spend 1-3 h on a game per day ....Im just looking for a mmo rpg where i can play with people from lvl 1...
    I felt precisely like you do. When I first eyed Champions of Regnum I felt I could never stand the 3 weeks+ or so it would take before I could meaningfully participate in wild active pvp.

    I kept looking around for a f2p mmo where I could start good RvR from lvl 1. There are still none available (gw2 is apossibility still). I thought hard why, and the only reason I can think of is money. These mmos cost money to run and cash shop xp boost scrolls are one of their key ways of getting richer players to pay (effectively subsidising poorer players like me).

    the more i thought about it, the closer i came to realising i can either 1) leave mmos altogether as an entertainment activity or 2) grit my teeth and choose the best and longest lasting RvR mmo to invest grinding time into.

    Regnum is that mmo for choice 2). Having spent say 6 months grinding up a character, ive had 2+yrs and counting awesome fun with it. Actually awesome is an understatement. It's still a wildly hilarious, tense, exciting, dramatic war which I engage in every day. Except for real life, Regnum is the best entertainment investment ive probably ever made of my time grinding. Regnum looks like it could last forever by the way (it has outlasted Vanguard and Warhammer).
    Be warned - I am a major player of Regnum Online the mmo. I've been playing it for about 2 years and rarely go without logging in at least once a day. You can also look at good alternatives to Regnum such ase Aion online and Aika Online.

    http://i.imgur.com/OR8cPqY.gif
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    http://i.minus.com/ibvD03fDh31lre.jpg
    http://i.minus.com/ibwoHNBFwlmuZF.gif
    http://i.minus.com/ibcdlNG4kU0IyS.gif

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