anyone religious willing to answer some questions?

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    i'd just like to say that as a polite little godless heathen i don't condone where this thread is going. can't we be nice about this
    I hate TALKING. to PEOPLE. about THINGS.

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    your not a religious type maybe or you do not even care if you are catholic the answer is in the bible and that is why they asking for forgiveness cause in the bible stated that what ever you do/did to your brother or to your sister not saying your real bro or sis its general means to all! is you do to HIM to GOD. hope it answer your query

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    Quote Originally Posted by postrook View Post
    i'd just like to say that as a polite little godless heathen i don't condone where this thread is going. can't we be nice about this
    No. This forum has proven time and again that it cannot be nice about these subjects. At all.

    It isn't too bad now but I'VE GOT MY EYE ON YOU ALL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefos View Post
    No. This forum has proven time and again that it cannot be nice about these subjects.
    I would be surprised, if the breakthrough in that regard came from this little forum...
    It' not a nice subject. Let's call the thing by it's right name.
    Religion is about power and restriction of that power is again, just about power.

    One might say there is such a thing as private believe. The only problem is with it, that there is no such thing as a publicly expressed private believe.

    (Op should probably have asked for pms. Making a thread ends in the thread going a threads way.)
    Last edited by Ronin; 03-07-2014 at 10:28 AM.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postrook View Post
    that doesn't really answer the question, though.

    why does god care about whether we sin?

    and why do we need to ask forgiveness for little things that wouldn't matter very much to anyone else?

    edit: Songz answered the question quite well. thanks.

    got another one:

    2) why do people bother to pray to ask god for things if god already has a divine plan and won't alter it?
    So I'm just going to be the only dude who actually is following the wishes of the OP in this topic and answer Postrook's next question.

    You have heard that wrong yet again. God gave us free will. He has a plan for us, but he trusts that we will make the right decisions to get there. He allows all humans to make their own decisions, and guides and helps them when they are lost.

    So if Gods plan was for "John Doe" to save people in Africa. But he started as a famous football star. When his decisions in life push him to a dark place, and he's lost. God would then guide him back onto his plan. (saving children in Africa with the huge amounts of money he made from his decision to become a football star).

    So basically, you have free will and your own choices, but God also has a default plan for you when you get lost.

    So you pray and ask God to help you with your journey, and he will grant it if it helps you follow the divine path he lead out for you.

    Honestly, God's plan is actually not even that detailed, more like: serve him, praise him, love him, and all of man kind. You can do whatever the hell you want to as long as you make him happy before you die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songz
    You can do whatever the hell you want to as long as you make him happy before you die.
    That really doesn't work out.
    I suppose it's what you arrive at, if you model yourself a god to the idea of the world you have. That in essence makes god worldly. The real answer would be that god is mysterious, doesn't work in logical, or other worldly ways and cant be explained.

    Anyways, the idea of people actually believing what is written in the bible exhausts me.
    Last edited by Ronin; 03-07-2014 at 03:01 PM.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postrook View Post
    1) why should anyone have to pray for forgiveness if they haven't really done anything wrong to god? i don't ask my real parents for forgiveness every time i tell a little white lie or whatever, so i don't think it should matter to god. you should probably feel bad if you've seriously hurt someone emotionally or physically, i guess, but even then, why is that any of god's business
    Quote Originally Posted by Murxidon View Post
    Faith is a wonderful thing Nicholas.....
    First you need to differentiate the difference between faith and religion.
    Faith is a relationship.
    Religion is taking what should be a good relationship and turning it into a bureaucracy.(something Jesus was strongly against)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    I know discipline. I have met fiercely disciplined people. Not one of them religious.

    I know a wide spectrum of religious people too. None of them have a clue what discipline is. They do not lead by example, because they can't. When they encounter a problem that is hard to deal with, they run away from it.

    There is one thing Jesus definitely never was and that's religious. There is one thing he definitely never did say and that was "pray all the time, because prayer is important."
    The beginning of Matthew 6 covers part of this,
    1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
    2“So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3“But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

    5“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6“But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

    7“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8“So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

    9“Pray, then, in this way:
    ‘Our Father who is in heaven,
    Hallowed be Your name.

    10‘Your kingdom come.
    Your will be done,
    On earth as it is in heaven.

    11‘Give us this day our daily bread.

    12‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

    13‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’]
    14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
    15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
    Even though Jesus states in this text not to use meaningless repetition, this is one of the most commonly repeated prayers there is.

    Instead it should be an example or template, for the basics of prayer.
    Honoring Him,
    seeking His will,
    seeking forgiveness,
    demonstrating that you are following His wishes.

    Faith (not religion) is an interesting thing.
    Contrary to popular belief there is only one correct interpretation of who God is and what he wants, and even amongst the few who will admit this as truth, even fewer will admit that they do not know it.
    I don't believe any human can know exactly what is right, but it is our responsibility to seek and to come as close as we are able during our lifetimes.


    The answer to your question,
    "Why should I pray for forgiveness?"

    You shouldn't have to. You should want to.
    If you have a relationship with someone, then your desire should be to strengthen that relationship and make them happy.
    If you hurt a friend or spouse, etc.... you do what you can to mend that tear in the relationship.
    If you have a relationship with God, then you will want to do the same.
    Sin hurts God, so when you sin while in a relationship with God, you will wish to seek his forgiveness.
    If you do not have a relationship, they why would you care?
    Why are people jerks on the Internet? Because of their anonymity and lack of relationship. (just for comparison)

    There is truth, and we all seek it in our way, even those who claim not to are trying to define it in their lack of definition.
    Of course my interpretation can not be 100% correct either because I am human, but this is how I understand it from what I have read and studied.

    Waiting for your deathbed, is in essence trusting that a bureaucracy will compensate for your lack of a relationship.

  9. #29
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    In Luke 11, Jesus answers with this to a specific question on how to pray. I always found that an interesting point of emphasis, as in this way, Jesus does not tell the apostles to pray, but how to do it, when they do. It's a certain focus on the "when you pray" that is also present in the sermon on the mountain, as you quoted from Mathew.
    Jesus unmasks prayer as something at least partially arrogant and lacking humility. He doesn't say stop praying. He says pray when you need to. Don't do it for gain, because of others, or as a ritual. I don't think that message has caught on.

    This remembers me of the last time I was in church. When I heard everyone uttering those words in trained unison, I felt soiled. It felt sad to me, really. All I wanted was desperately to get out of there.


    It's also an important point to distinguish faith and religion.
    Last edited by Ronin; 03-07-2014 at 05:12 PM.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    I felt soiled.


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