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    Default Calling all Wizards...

    Is there a speed at which firing a bullet from a fighter jet could go awfully wrong?

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    if the bullet hits like a baby or a nun or something, yeah. but the speed of the airplane doesn't really matter then

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    In a vacuum, no.

    In air, shooting at high speed is actually similar to pissing into the wind. Yes is the answer.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loric View Post
    the speed of your mom.
    burrrrrned !
    Some Stories Are Just Way Better In My Head!

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    I'm an ectomancer... Ballistics, Wind Speed/Resistance, Physics in general aren't really my department.
    But if you want to talk to a dead aunt or something let me know.

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    If the fighter jet is facing a civilian.

    Wait - if you shoot a bullet from inside the fighter jet, you could destroy part of the vehicle and kill yourself. Also, if you are flying a fighter jet and shoot yourself with a handgun you'd probably lose control of the plane.

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    Hmm. To start I am not sure if a modern round would fire in those conditions.

    If it did... The gun/bullet would be traveling the same speed as the jet before firing. Well say the jet is going 1100 ft/s. A 9mm bullet can go up to 1250 ft/s.

    I would guess that the bullet would leave the gun going 150 ft/s faster. Meaning it would lead the jet a few seconds before it started to slow. The jet would probably hit the bullet in about 3 seconds and do no damage.

    If the jet is moving faster than the bullet I am not sure that the bullet would leave the gun. If it did it would be due to force not speed. After that force has deteriorated the jet would pass the bullet. However, I don't think the speed would be enough to actually do damage.

    Kinda like A car going 75mph will do a lot more damage if it rear ends another vehicle that is going 35mph than if the 2nd vehicle was going 65mph.
    Last edited by FarmerM; 04-08-2014 at 01:13 AM.

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    Yeah, from what I've been reading, the bullet will always(?) leave the gun at speed of the object it's fired from + the speed of the bullet.

    So if a Jet is going Mach 3 (~2280 mph) and the bullet leaves the gun at 1000 mph, the bullet would initially move away from the jet at around 3280 mph. Due to bullet drop, I doubt the jet would ever meet the bullet again.

    Makes me wonder if there is a speed at which the bullet starts being effected differently. I might have to take this one to le reddit.

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    I dunno...
    If the gun was fired within the confines of a plane's cabin, for example, the bullet would technically move at it's speed + the speed of the plane. The moment the bullet "detaches" from the plane, it's going to lose that extra momentum really fast.

    Ever throw a bottle out of your car window?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z0MBiE View Post
    Yeah, from what I've been reading, the bullet will always(?) leave the gun at speed of the object it's fired from + the speed of the bullet.

    So if a Jet is going Mach 3 (~2280 mph) and the bullet leaves the gun at 1000 mph, the bullet would initially move away from the jet at around 3280 mph. Due to bullet drop, I doubt the jet would ever meet the bullet again.

    Makes me wonder if there is a speed at which the bullet starts being effected differently. I might have to take this one to le reddit.
    Thats not true. The speed will always affect the bullet, especially at mach speeds. It won't amount to a blocked barrel, or destroy the cartridge, but it will effect it. Still for all technical reasons, we are limited to speeds under mach 5.
    The thing is, even if a bullet is designed to fly for a significant distance under about mach 1.5 it will be slowed down very fast at higher speed, since drag increases with speed^2.
    At the same time the plane is still propelled by it's thrust. The plane sees a "static" current of oncoming air. That means that it is experiancing the same effects as a person standing in the wind; relative windspeed is all that matters.
    When Im bored enough Ill draft a quick mathematical estimation.
    The question is not, if it coul happen, it's more of when.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z0MBiE View Post
    Is there a speed at which firing a bullet from a fighter jet could go awfully wrong?
    Any speed beyond what the wings can take before breaking I suppose.

    Also if you were traveling at exactly lightspeed, and fired a bullet backward, then you'd probably be screwed because the laws of motion would break.

    If you traveled too fast you might light your jet on fire due to the friction against the air in the atmosphere.

    If you were traveling at the speed of sound and then accelerated you'd be flying your jet through your own sonic boom which would probably stall the engine.

    Firing two bullets in front of you could great an interference pattern of sonic shockwaves that could also cause turbulence.

    If your jet was not aerodynamic enough it would start tilting up too much as its speed increased.

    At unimagineable speeds you might mess-up spacetime and the bullet creates a wormhole to the past and hit you from behind. Your gun would probably need like a sun powering it though.

    Your boss may not like you flying so fast. Pilots can get fired if they fly too fast. (It kinda sucks when every window in a city shatters.)

    The bullet you fired might hit someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    I actually researched combat speeds, max speeds and effective speeds and effective altitudes of most in service air superiority fighters. After that I researched effective range and terminal bullet velocity for their bordweaponry. I calculated the ballistic angle of firing to hit a target at effective combat speed and effective height level to the plane. After that I calculated fall-off models for the bullet.

    All of that I fed into a quickly hacked together forward discretisation finite timestep model, taking air density into account, using global all year averages (and some realistic variants of all models to get a grasp of the sensetivity of the calculation). I researched air resitance models for bulets of the calibre of boardweapons that are in use today.
    o.o
    That sounds like it would take a very long time!
    Last edited by Phenoca; 11-18-2014 at 01:06 AM.

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    I actually researched combat speeds, max speeds and effective speeds and effective altitudes of most in service air superiority fighters. After that I researched effective range and terminal bullet velocity for their bordweaponry. I calculated the ballistic angle of firing to hit a target at effective combat speed and effective height level to the plane. After that I calculated fall-off models for the bullet.

    All of that I fed into a quickly hacked together forward discretisation finite timestep model, taking air density into account, using global all year averages (and some realistic variants of all models to get a grasp of the sensetivity of the calculation). I researched air resitance models for bulets of the calibre of boardweapons that are in use today.

    I seriousely doubt that there is anyone who can say more on the topic than the estimate I came up with. A mach 20 rocket plane could catch the bullets easily in level flight (though it could hardly aim at a moving target without getting shreded to pieces by the turning forces and resulting wing loads, which is why we do not have dogfighting rocketplanes). Modern fighter planes won't hit themselves. My estimate came up with a 20ish degree downward angle to enter the bullet trajectory at top speed. Since the example has a speed of half and less, a close to 45 degree downward angle and lower altitude, I suppose I wasn't far of.

    I can't really go back and check into the model anymore though, since I threw away my files after no one gave much of a shit and I more or less did all for my own enjoyment.
    I was only a little dissapointed that zom did not share a link to the reddit question of his, since I probably would have made an account to take part in the discussion regarding the topic, but hey w/e.
    Last edited by Ronin; 11-17-2014 at 11:50 PM.

    Stay frosty.

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    aww, I'll give you some useless reps for effort.


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    According to Rear Admiral William A. Schoech, assistant chief of the Bureau of Aeronautics for Research and Development, the muzzle velocity of the shells was 3,000-feet a second. Their speed through the air (the muzzle velocity plus the airplane's speed) was about 4,300 feet- per-second,

    "This would be more than 2,000 miles an hour, but their speed was immediately slowed down, because of air resistance. The plane was traveling about 880 miles an hour, better than 100 miles an hour faster than the speed of sound."

    If the airplane had kept its original course, it would have passed by them, but its steepened dive path made it intersect the bullet's down-curving path. When it hit them, they must have been moving so slowly that the airplane overtook them at a good fraction of its own air speed, which was about as fast as many a newly fired bullet.
    880 miles an hour


    Actually on topic, neat story zombie, i never figured you could indeed outrun a bullet to get shot by it.

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    I'm hereeeeeeeeeeeee. I brought my wizard hat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenoca View Post
    Your boss may not like you flying so fast. Pilots can get fired if they fly too fast. (It kinda sucks when every window in a city shatters.)
    we've had a few Eurofighter Typhoon's take off to intercept stuff near here, breaking a few windows on the way. I don't think they care much about windows when they have to stop things being blown up.

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