Warframe - The grind alone

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  1. #11
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    Well the game is built to be more of a rambo game than a cover based shooter.

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    I play on PS4, but im pretty sure you can still add me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrgsubzero View Post
    Well the game is built to be more of a rambo game than a cover based shooter.
    No, it isn't.

    You have missions where there are specific goals that you don't even need to kill enemies and it's faster not to. The maps are all designed with various places for cover as well (hell the void has barriers that pop up for that specific reason). There's also the the ability to perform stealth attacks on enemies, and weapons/mods that deal with reduced noise. There's even a challenge that pops up that wants you to kill 10 enemies that haven't been alerted to your presence, which is also affected by the alarm system.

    And lets not forget there are not one, but two frames capable of turning themselves invisible (Ash and Loki) and another that can eliminate noise entirely (Banshee).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashis View Post
    No, it isn't.

    You have missions where there are specific goals that you don't even need to kill enemies and it's faster not to. The maps are all designed with various places for cover as well (hell the void has barriers that pop up for that specific reason). There's also the the ability to perform stealth attacks on enemies, and weapons/mods that deal with reduced noise. There's even a challenge that pops up that wants you to kill 10 enemies that haven't been alerted to your presence, which is also affected by the alarm system.

    And lets not forget there are not one, but two frames capable of turning themselves invisible (Ash and Loki) and another that can eliminate noise entirely (Banshee).
    It's not cover based, it might be when they add a proper cover system where you can lean from behind a wall and shoot while being partially covered but right now it's a peek-a-boo based at best.

    As for Stealth it's not really a viable, not to mention efficient way to play the game. It's for people who want to role-play or mess around, if you're in a party (or Solo) and try to Stealth through a level you just slow everyone down and waste time.

    I know they are going to revamp Stealth some time in the future but at the moment it's not a serious part of the game, same goes for cover but to a lesser extent since you don't really have to use cover if you keep your distance and move around by sliding/dodging/coptering.

    It all depends on the situation, sometimes it's best to use cover, other times it's better to stay mobile (it all depends on your frame and loadout but let's not get into the details) but just because there are scenarios where one action is more beneficial that doesn't mean the whole game is based around it.

    Personally I wouldn't say that Warframe is cover, stealth or rush based. It's a mixture all three with some flexibility to let you choose your own playstyle.
    Last edited by Verde; 04-24-2014 at 04:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verde View Post
    It's not cover based, it might be when they add a proper cover system where you can lean from behind a wall and shoot while being partially covered but right now it's a peek-a-boo based at best.

    As for Stealth it's not really a viable, not to mention efficient way to play the game. It's for people who want to role-play or mess around, if you're in a party (or Solo) and try to Stealth through a level you just slow everyone down and waste time.

    I know they are going to revamp Stealth some time in the future but at the moment it's not a serious part of the game, same goes for cover but to a lesser extent since you don't really have to use cover if you keep your distance and move around by sliding/dodging/coptering.

    It all depends on the situation, sometimes it's best to use cover, other times it's better to stay mobile (it all depends on your frame and loadout but let's not get into the details) but just because there are scenarios where one action is more beneficial that doesn't mean the whole game is based around it.

    Personally I wouldn't say that Warframe is cover, stealth or rush based. It's a mixture all three with some flexibility to let you choose your own playstyle.
    My point wasnt that warframe is a cover based game, but rather that you do have the option to not run around in the open and get shot. You can crouch and hide behind various objects to avoid fire from most enemies. People just dont and just try to kill stuff before they die because their weapons are strong. But you always have those people who underestimate the combined firepower of multiple enemies tagging them at the same time and they get overwhemed. With strategy you can take on a lot of stuff with even mediocre weapons. A lot of players just want this game to be "I can run around with mah gun/sword/abilities and kill anything without problems" and you can't because it wasnt designed to be that way. And if it was, then there would be no challenge and people would complain about how easy and boring the game is.

    You think stealth is just for the people who want to run around being ninja and speaking in haiku? You think stealth isn't an efficient way of clearing a mission? I have to ask, have you ever really played an Ash or Loki or even had the Shade sentinel? Being invisible in this game is the next best thing to being invincible. You can solo the high level captures easily because of invisibility. You can run past an entire group of enemies in survival to revive a downed player or clear out a crowd or high priority targets, like the heavies, so someone else can. Being undetected allows you to do speed runs on assassinates, spy, deception types by focusing on the goal and not have to stop to kill stuff in the way or hack into a system to stop a lock down that is caused by some random ass mob at a console.

    Being invisible means you dont have to worry about getting hit by anything other than stray bullets or splash damage, which in turn increases survivalbility. It's also perfect for those who want to use bows or snipers and get crits. I've seen people do just that and post up during defense missions and pick off anything that gets near the pod.
    Last edited by Kashis; 04-24-2014 at 08:45 AM.
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    Ash and Loki are a different issue since they get increased Melee damage while invible but clearing a map with Melee isn't as efficient as using Guns. Stealth is mostly good for it's Utility, to ress someone or run past a group of mobs (though you can usually easily run past mobs without Stealth by coptering/sliding). As I said it has it's uses but most of the time it's just slowing your team down, the point of this game is to kill stuff, if you run past enemies you miss out on precious resources and potential mods that drop off them so unless you're doing missions where you only care about the 'end' reward then running stealth is counter productive.

    On the other hand trying to do full stealth runs takes too much time and 99% of the time you'll be better off just using your guns and abilities. It becomes even more insignificant if you're in a team where nobody gives a shit about your stealthy shenanigans and just wants to clear the map as fast as possible, you also force your mates to take more damage by removing yourself from enemy sight. Sure, YOU will be safer but the enemy attention will be spread among 3 people and not 4 because of that.

    Stealth has limited uses like ressing someone, running away or rushing through very high level Capture/Assassinations but most of the time it's just a hindrance, especially if you're in a party. Aside from Loki and Ash who can stay invisible while attacking other frames don't have much use in Stealth other than the utility it provides in some cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadaj View Post
    I play on PS4, but im pretty sure you can still add me.

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    Tried, said you didn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verde View Post
    Ash and Loki are a different issue since they get increased Melee damage while invible but clearing a map with Melee isn't as efficient as using Guns. Stealth is mostly good for it's Utility, to ress someone or run past a group of mobs (though you can usually easily run past mobs without Stealth by coptering/sliding). As I said it has it's uses but most of the time it's just slowing your team down, the point of this game is to kill stuff, if you run past enemies you miss out on precious resources and potential mods that drop off them so unless you're doing missions where you only care about the 'end' reward then running stealth is counter productive.

    On the other hand trying to do full stealth runs takes too much time and 99% of the time you'll be better off just using your guns and abilities. It becomes even more insignificant if you're in a team where nobody gives a shit about your stealthy shenanigans and just wants to clear the map as fast as possible, you also force your mates to take more damage by removing yourself from enemy sight. Sure, YOU will be safer but the enemy attention will be spread among 3 people and not 4 because of that.

    Stealth has limited uses like ressing someone, running away or rushing through very high level Capture/Assassinations but most of the time it's just a hindrance, especially if you're in a party. Aside from Loki and Ash who can stay invisible while attacking other frames don't have much use in Stealth other than the utility it provides in some cases.
    Dude, if you have 4 Ash or Loki players who are invisible, the enemies won't even act, they will just stand still like idiots or wander round aimlessly unless it's a defense mission. You can then just mow them down with no resistance. You can use your guns while in stealth as well so you don't have to use melee. Stealth just provides the bonus of not being a target which gives you the freedom to do whatever you want. Stealth, apart from the activation doesn't really slow you down and lasts long enough for you to do what you need to do. And Shade's precept gives a decent enough stealth to deter enemy attention for a moment giving you a number of options. Having stealth via those frames or a sentinel is not a hindrance. The only time it is one is when you have to go out of your way to utilize it. playing stealthy is a different story, but again, does have it's uses.

    If you need resources, you do survival/mobile defense/assassinate anyway. That's a different type of mission and often calls for a different set up depending on where and what you are fighting. The point I'm trying to make here is that you can use stealth on those frames effectively and it is not a useless feature nor is it a bad idea to hide behind something if something is shooting at you, especially when dealing with higher level enemies that do some serious damage.

    It is actually better to have someone who is the focus of the enemies attention and can take a hit, very much like a tank would in an mmorpg. That is the whole point of those frames: to single out specific targets and eliminate them. Any Ash or Loki player, or any player for that matter, that isn't being targeted can be focused solely on doing damage and not taking it. How is that not a useful thing to a party when you are dealing with particularly nasty enemies?

    Again I'm not talking about stuff like exterminates and going stealthy, those you can just MP through. that wasn't my point. I'm not saying stealth is the best for everything, of course it's not, but it is very useful for quite a huge number of things people do on a regular basis. And again, you DO have the option of hiding behind cover in this game to take out targets. But you shouldn't expect a paper frame like Ember not to get ripped to shreds by an Eviscerator, then complain about it when you do because the only way you could have possibly survived is by having Trinity's Blessing, instead of trying to get up close and personal with one in the first place (which a LOT of people do).

    Higher level survival/defense and such requires you to do more than just be mobile.
    Last edited by Kashis; 04-24-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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    Be careful of what you say, tomorrow or today, for the words you now speak, may become the poison your enemies later seek; truth.
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  8. #18
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    The stealth system itself is very incomplete and not worth attempting other than novelty.

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    Hell, the entire game feels incomplete, despite how long its been out.
    I'm really hoping for some kind of scenario missions on the future.
    Still, I'm looking forward to those tenno spaceships and have kuburows instead of sententials.

    (Things and stuff are happening!)

    Currently playing:
    WildStar - Razzi - LV50 Chua Engineer Explorer - Envirda (Roleplaying) Server

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    RESCUE 2.0 IS HERE!
    To pave the way for this overhaul, we’d like to invite everyone to participate in Specters of Liberty to try out the changes, help us work out the kinks and earn some sweet rewards for your efforts. Have fun and let us know what you think.

    WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
    - Rescue Missions throughout the Star Map have been upgraded to Rescue 2.0. These missions -- and their rewards -- are a permanent addition the game.
    - Be stealthy and you'll remain unseen by the enemy. Use this to your advantage to take down the Wardens and release the hostage in your own time. Killing all of the Wardens will also earn you an extra point. (See below).
    - Lend the hostage your Secondary Weapon and they will help you take on the enemy.

    WHAT YOU NEED TO DO
    - The 'Specters of Liberty' Operation will utilize the New Rescue 2.0 Missions. Exclusive Operation Rewards will be awarded to Tenno that achieve point levels while the Operation is live. (See Operation Rewards below.)
    - The Corpus and Grineer have upgraded their prison security. Both factions have deployed these new facilities to three different nodes. There are Easy, Medium, and Hard facilities. Access these nodes directly on the Star Chart to participate.
    - You need to locate the Red Veil Hostage. They are located in a cell within the prison block.
    - Hostages are protected by Corpus or Grineer Wardens. Use caution, if alerted to your presence, they will try to initiate the Execution Sequence.
    - If the Execution Sequence is started, a timer appears. If you fail to rescue the hostage before the timer runs out they will be killed.

    RESCUE 2.0 MISSION REWARDS
    Rescue 2.0 Mission Rewards are a permanent addition to the game. The Red Veil will always reward you for rescuing their Operatives with Specter Blueprints — Blueprints for new, deployable AI Warframes that can be used in missions or in defense of your Clan's Solar Rails.

    Your Mission Rewards will be determined by the difficulty level and number of points earned in each Mission you complete.
    Up to 3 points can be earned by completing the following:
    Rescue a hostage = 1 point
    Don't set off the kill switch = 1 point
    Kill all Wardens = 1 point

    Your Specter Blueprint will be awarded according to your score. More difficult missions offer stronger Specters.(One Blueprint reward per Mission.)



    Your points will then multiply according to the difficulty of the node to determine your Operation Reward:
    Easy (Vallis on Mars or Numa on Saturn) -- x1 Point Multiplier
    Medium (Brugia on Eris or Mab on Uranus) -- x2 Point Multiplier
    Hard (Nereid on Neptune or Cinxia on Ceres) – x3 Point Multiplier
    Nightmare (if occurring) -- x4 Point Multiplier

    OPERATION START AND END TIME
    Specters of Liberty is on now! This operation will end on Thursday, May 8 at 12 PM EDT.

    OPERATION REWARDS - distributed as soon as you get the required points!
    The Red Veil will also recognize you for how you bring home their Operatives. They want you to send a message to the enemy.

    Recognition is awarded after you reach the following point levels:
    5 points = Operation Badge
    100 points = Rakta Syandana

    Go forth, Tenno and help the Red Veil bring their people home!

    • New: Tenno Specters!
    Tenno, you are not alone. The power to create a Specter can now be found in your Arsenal once you obtain a Blueprint! Creating a Tenno Specter can be accomplished by Rescuing hostages in Rescue 2.0! All new Rescue missions will include a hostage whose reward is determined by the difficulty and skill in completion of the mission!
    You will be able to create the following tiers of Tenno Specters:

    Vapor, Phase, Force, Cosmic

    The Blueprints for these Specters can be found when Rescuing targets, see above details for the way points and difficulty works in obtaining your Blueprints!
    What can you do with these Tenno Specters?
    If you’re in a Clan or Alliance that wants to add greater challenge and defenses to your Solar Rail, you can create Tenno Specters to give to your Clan/Alliance’s Tactician to begin building an army for strategic deployment!
    If you’re a player that wants added help in your regular missions, you can bring Tenno Specters in your gear slots to deploy!
    Or, maybe you’re both! Have fun in the field with a Tenno Specter at your side!

    • New Enemy Type: Wardens! These enemy types are more susceptible to stealth based attacks - find them as a part of Rescue 2.0!
    • Added Fusion Core Folding! This feature will automatically group all of your Cores together by Rarity and Rank; i.e You have 50 Common Cores, 25 of which are rank 1 and 25 of which are Rank 2? They will now appear as separate stacks in your Inventory!
    • Added in Melee mode functionality for when playing in Big Picture mode.
    • Added support for additional aspect ratios.

    Changes:

    • Changes to Defense Mission Key Rewards.
    T1 Keys can now be found at Wave 15 in 'easy' missions (Enemy Level 0 - 10).
    T2 Keys can now be found at Wave 15 in 'medium' missions (Enemy Level 10-20).
    T3 Keys can now be found at Wave 15 in 'hard' missions (Enemy Level 20+).
    • Tweaked Dark Sector transmission music.
    • Tweaked the ‘Level Up’ music when gaining a new rank on any of your gear.
    • Tweaked a number of jump sound effects.
    • Tweaked Nef Anyo's Sniper Rifle sounds.
    • Tweaked the frequency of the Grineer Female attack, scream, and player near death sound effects.
    • Created a new Custom AI version of the 3D Gorgon fire sound effects used by all Grineer Enemy types which use the Gorgon.
    • Altered the visuals on the electric beams seen in a number of traps in the Grineer Galleon tileset from purple to Green.
    • Adjusted the amount of firing sound effects that play when firing multiple weapons.
    • Altered the effects on Mod drops to help distinguish them from regular item drops.
    • Rare Mods will now be tinted yellow to match the visual effects on their pickups.
    • Removed collision on a number of art assets in the Grineer Forest tileset to help improve performance.
    • Increased the volume on the Latron and Lex Prime sound effects.
    • Regular melee attack sound effects will no longer play when using Hysteria.
    • Reduced the quality of a number general visual effects to help improve performance.
    • Tweaked the Staff weapon hit effects.
    • Removed some faulty connector tiles from the Grineer Galleon tileset.
    • Tweaked a number of Warframe Ability sound effects.
    • Exclusive items will no longer appear as Codex entries unless you have them.
    • Increased the volume on ambient sound effects in the Forest tileset.
    • Increased the sound volume of the Swarm Missile Launcher projectile wielded by Hellions.
    • Improved the performance of a number of Frost's abilities.
    • Tweaked the ambient noises in the Shipyards Mobile Defense tileset.
    • Increased the performance of a number of Grustrag 3 related visual effects.
    • Improved the performance of a number of light assets in the Shipyards tileset.
    • Improved the performance of the Slide visual effects.
    • Altered the Tint Color 3 selection so as to allow the mouthguard piece on Oberon's Alt helmet to be customized.
    • Altered the Mod auto-pickup sound.
    • Optimized a number of art assets on the Forest Tileset for increased performance.
    • Optimized a number of lights and shadows in the Orokin Void tilesets in an effort to improve performance.
    • Tweaked the Apex visuals on Melee Channeling.
    • Tweaked a number of Infested sound effects.
    • Tweaked the Door Laser activate/deactivate sound effects.

    Fixes:
    • Fixed an issue with Helios scanning objects that have already been fully scanned.
    • Fixed issues with Melee 2.0 compatibility with controller remapping.
    • Fixed an issue with the player being able to use invisible melee weapons during the tutorial.
    • Fixed a Axe Combo stance card being missing from the Ancient Disrupter drop table.
    • Fixed a number of stuck spots in multiple Shipyards Tilesets.
    • Fixed a number of graphical issues on Dojo assets.
    • Fixed a number of crashes.
    • Fixed a number of localization issues.
    • Fixed a number of achievements not having corresponding images.
    • Fixed an issue with player's being able to bypass the first Vay Hek Cinematic which would in turn break a number of things in the subsequent segments of the level.
    • Fixed an issue with Banshee's Sonar ability highlighting nonexistent weak points on Vay Hek.
    • Fixed an issue with players losing health and dying by being able to get too high in the Forest tileset.
    • Fixed an issue with certain dioramas continuing to load the Tutorial levels when you leave while the diorama is loading.
    • Fixed an issue with certain Shiyards level missing doors
    • Fixed an issue with the hunter type AI enemies attacking the player's dead body if the player dies before the hunter AI type spawn.
    • Fixed an issue with the Drop Ship seen in the Settlement intro missing proper lighting.
    • Fixed a number of art related issues seen on in the Forest tileset.
    • Fixed an issue with incorrect Dark Sector terminology appearing briefly when opening the Clan Menu while not currently being in a clan.
    • Fixed an issue with Capture Targets being capturable twice after a host migration occurs.
    • Fixed an issue with minimap opacity not being properly restored when Zooming in and swapping to the overlay view.
    • Fixed a number of art related issues in the Grineer Galleon tileset.
    • Fixed an issue with players being unable to sign in using the Enter key if that Enter key was rebound to the Chat function.
    • Fixed an issue with the Star indicator seen next to Codex entries incorrectly overlapping the entry name text.
    • Fixed an issue with minimized Chat tabs not properly flashing when a new message is received.
    • Fixed an issue with the minimap not properly directly the player in the Grineer Asteroid tileset.
    • Fixed an art related issue seen between doorways on the Grineer Asteroid tileset.
    • Fixed an issue with the play type drop down menu not properly closing when selecting a Star Map node.
    • Fixed an issue with the Arsenal tab not properly closing when the player is disconnected for any given reason.
    • Fixed an issue with Orokin Void visual effects appearing as solid blue sheets.
    • Fixed an issue with Capture targets being susceptible to Vauban's bounce ability which could cause them to get stuck in level geometry.
    • Fixed an issue with the pause menu Mission Information screen showing incorrect Dark Sector related information.
    • Fixed an issue with the Arsenal screen being prematurely accessible from the Mission stats screen after completing a mission.
    • Fixed an issue with the Undertow exit sound not being played on Clients.
    • Fixed an issue with the player appearing to shoot an invisible weapon during the first Mastery Rank test.
    • Fixed a number of art related bugs in the Shipyards tilesets.
    • Fixed an issue with players being unable to navigate the Pause Menu correctly when using a controller on the PC.
    • Fixed an issue with the Pause Menu screen not resizing correctly after leaving a clan while in game.
    • Fixed an issue Infested AI types getting stuck inside spawn rooms in the Grineer Settlement tileset.
    • Fixed an issue with the Undertow functioning incorrectly if the player casts it while stationary but in the sliding animation.
    • Fixed an issue with hit sound effects not playing correctly on disarmed agents.
    • Fixed an issue with the Valkyr helmet and body tint colors not matching correctly.
    • Fixed an issue with firing or shooting actions not occurring correctly if the player attempts either action after performing an Axe jump attack.
    • Fixed an issue with Dojo level blocking volumes incorrectly clipping into adjacent rooms.
    • Fixed an issue with the number of Alliance Solar Rails not properly updating for all Alliance members.
    • Fixed an issue with with Vay Hek requiring too many scans to complete his Codex entry.
    • Fixed an issue with Banshee and Ashes ability's visual effects lingering after usage when experiencing heavy lag.
    • Fixed an issue with Infested Leapers not properly leaping.
    • Fixed an issue with Corpus MOA's spawned via Moa lockers clipping into objects above them.
    • Fixed an issue with users being in "Clan Membership Limbo", which also potentially prevented Mastery Rank tests from being complete.
    "Rules do not exist to bind you, they exist so you may know your freedoms"

    Be careful of what you say, tomorrow or today, for the words you now speak, may become the poison your enemies later seek; truth.
    http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kashis

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