Would you enjoy a MMO completely removing RNG

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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acreon View Post
    yes, unless it required you do it 1k times to get the drop.
    In that case, allow me to follow up on what Ming said.

    Quote Originally Posted by M1nGs3N4yuk1 View Post
    Killing RNG completely doesn't seem like a good idea. Gambling is a variable ratio reinforcement and has the greatest effect on conditioning. (Playing a slot machine for example) It keeps players wanting more and stay longer. If rewards are based on a fixed ratio reinforcement, less incentives are there for players to partake in the activity. Say you get a reward after 5 dungeon runs. Then the prize isn't rewarding. How about 100 runs? Yes it's rewarding but I think people are gonna quit before they do 100 runs of the same dungeon. 20 runs then? Some will say that's too much, some will say too little. There's a gray line between what is the right amount.

    RNG is perfectly fine and can feel rewarding as long as the variables are perfectly reasonable. 1-10 is too little and 1-10,000 is too extreme. 1-100 seems just about right because the gray line isn't as great as the fixed variable. This gives players an incentive to keep going because they don't know when they'll be rewarded.


    Something like a RNG crit chance is a big no no. You're pretty much depending on chance to save your life. That's dumb.
    Not necessarily. In Dofus for example, crit chance starts at 1/50 for most skills and, through gear, you're able to raise the chance to something more consistent (max being 1/2). The crit multiplier is also either 1.5 or 2.0 for spells, so it's not a game changer, but it adds that extra element to character progression.

    If done right, I would say that RNG on critical hits is not completely egregious.

    As for removing RNG completely from games, as other posters have mentioned, I don't believe this is a solution for an enduring game. Instant gratification is fun, but if anyone has played on high rate private servers before, the fun is short-lived. RNG continues to, more or less, successfully keep players in the Skinner's box, prolonging the longevity of a game.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetaGods123 View Post
    In that case, allow me to follow up on what Ming said.



    Not necessarily. In Dofus for example, crit chance starts at 1/50 for most skills and, through gear, you're able to raise the chance to something more consistent (max being 1/2). The crit multiplier is also either 1.5 or 2.0 for spells, so it's not a game changer, but it adds that extra element to character progression.

    If done right, I would say that RNG on critical hits is not completely egregious.

    As for removing RNG completely from games, as other posters have mentioned, I don't believe this is a solution for an enduring game. Instant gratification is fun, but if anyone has played on high rate private servers before, the fun is short-lived. RNG continues to, more or less, successfully keep players in the Skinner's box, prolonging the longevity of a game.
    RNG is good in some areas, bad in others. To completely remove it though, I agree would not be the best notion.
    Not to say someone couldn't/shouldn't try to do a rpg/orpg without RNG, just that it would be difficult to do well.
    Last edited by Acreon; 05-03-2014 at 01:55 AM. Reason: Momentary lapse of reason

  3. #13
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    Monster Hunter, 'nough said. That ALMOST has zero RNG to it, though those Rathalos Shells are a real bish to get.

  4. #14
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    RNG isn't bad, though a number of games just use it badly on systems that shouldn't have it in the first place. But that isn't the fault of RNG itself, it's the company's way of generating profit through cash shop dependency with the extremely low and absurd rates. This has been known for years and many of you have complained about it in various games. But as long as people keeping praising how awesome the F2P model is and buying into it, this what you are going to continue to see because these games are designed with the nature of the players they make the most money off of and that's the competitive ones. Your personal enjoyment comes a distant second, otherwise things would have been better balanced from the start. The single player counterparts to a lot of these mmorpgs are better balanced and do not have these problems. Though people also go into these games knowing what to expect as well and that is you are going to have to grind to get what you need.

    The real problem though is that people just don't want to grind for anything anymore, MMORPG or not. The nature of a number these games are supposed to be in part or whole, random, so it really doesn't make sense to complain about it. You all know what an MMORPG is going to consist of: grind. That has been true pretty much since day one and people keep acting like ya'll are brand new to them. And yet when they implement the ability to buy your gear out of Auction Houses, you complain about how games are now pay to win since all you have to do is just buy everything and not have to, oh right, grind for it.

    So you don't want to have to grind for gear based on RNG, and you don't want have to craft gear from rare materials gotten from grinding, or deal with amassing 100s of materials to craft a set, or even have the option to buy gear out of an AH because that's too easy (go figure), so tell me this then guys, seriously: what exactly do you want?

    I don't want to hear, "well I don't want grind because I don't like that for x reason(s)"; I've heard all of that before. I'm not even saying any of you are wrong because many of you do have valid points about the various aspects of RNG hindering progress or getting in the way of crafting, but what exactly do you expect from an MMORPG? Or any RPG for that matter? Because to me, it really sounds like you guys are playing Poker and expecting it to be like Chess.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave!Yognaught View Post
    Monster Hunter, 'nough said. That ALMOST has zero RNG to it, though those Rathalos Shells are a real bish to get.
    Monster Hunter has a lot of RNG to it. You have percentages for carves, end rewards, certain food ability activations, etc. Hell the gems you need for some of the best gear are just as low, if not lower, than drop rates for items people complain about in a number of MMOS.

    And surprisingly, it's still a hell of a lot more enjoyable than all of them.
    Last edited by Kashis; 05-03-2014 at 03:07 AM.
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  5. #15
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    RNG is one of those necessary evils, it is the developer's responsibility to keep it under control. Obviously most players are going to dislike having some degree of control taken away from them in any scenario (Loot, Combat, What activity you get to do) but this randomness also helps keep things from getting stale in some scenarios.

    While it may not be the best idea to repeatedly layer random systems on top of each other, consider the experience if you removed a mechanic like Critical Hit? In fact lets pull all combat randomness out and take away all forms of avoidance and critical. What you are left with is combat that happens exactly the same every single time. DMG #s are always exactly the same, your dmg - their armor and vice versa. You will know whether you will win or lose the fight from the first swing. You can literally count the number of hits you will take to kill stuff as it is happening because nothing ever changes. Thats not really fun either.

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    RNG does not make sense to a lot of things. Anything that doesn't make sense devalues the quality of the product.
    Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  7. #17
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    Only if you also remove Open World PVP From that same MMORPG and never consider adding it, in any form.

    Only plays Burst Magic DPS Classes and Healers.
    Playing MMO: FFXIV (Ragnarok)
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