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Thread: Tree of Savior English Blog!

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    who uses fist weapons on RO anyways? lol....

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    Wait, what? RO Monks did not use maces and shields guys and they visually did not walk around with a mace and shield either. They used fist weapons and so could priests. http://irowiki.org/wiki/Knuckle

    Why would it make sense that a class that uses their fists walk around with a mace and shield? They did not in RO (though that's not really much of an excuse since this ain't RO). And a Battle Priest and a monk are not he same thing. They said they have Monks in ToS, a class that uses their fists to attack, and have them equipped with a mace and shield. How does that not bug you guys?

    What are you guys talking about?

    While yeah I'm glad they are adding Monk in, it just seems kinda lazy to not give them fists weapons just because they belong to the Cleric line, is my point.
    Last edited by Kashis; 06-30-2014 at 10:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashis View Post
    Wait, what? RO Monks did not use maces and shields guys and they visually did not walk around with a mace and shield either. They used fist weapons and so could priests. http://irowiki.org/wiki/Knuckle

    Why would it make sense that a class that uses their fists walk around with a mace and shield? They did not in RO (though that's not really much of an excuse since this ain't RO). And a Battle Priest and a monk are not he same thing. They said they have Monks in ToS, a class that uses their fists to attack, and have them equipped with a mace and shield. How does that not bug you guys?

    What are you guys talking about?
    Monks usually preferred mace because of 4 cards in it, And yes they did use shield. Thara frog carded valk shield and mace - turtle general + Hydras. I remember it like it was yesterday, It was cheap and got you through places. Still say I don't need equips, Equips are just a convenient way to give stats. If you're going to give me a sword, it better come with it's own set of skills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashis View Post
    Wait, what? RO Monks did not use maces and shields guys and they visually did not walk around with a mace and shield either. They used fist weapons and so could priests. http://irowiki.org/wiki/Knuckle

    Why would it make sense that a class that uses their fists walk around with a mace and shield? They did not in RO (though that's not really much of an excuse since this ain't RO). And a Battle Priest and a monk are not he same thing. They said they have Monks in ToS, a class that uses their fists to attack, and have them equipped with a mace and shield. How does that not bug you guys?

    What are you guys talking about?

    While yeah I'm glad they are adding Monk in, it just seems kinda lazy to not give them fists weapons just because they belong to the Cleric line, is my point.
    No class visually walked around with their weapons out, it's always sheathed until combat.
    The mace and shield does show on monks though.

    Longggg time ago people used fists just for combo monks in RO, people figured out builds and the best way to go was pretty much mace and shield for the big hits and card slots.

    They said their aren't any separate knuckle weapons for the monk, only that monk skills will be using their fists for animations instead of the weapons itself.


    Yeah it is kind of odd to run around with a mace and a shield and then fighting with your fists but I'm quite sure it can be changed if enough people ask for it, they've already changed stuff based on feedback.
    Last edited by markca; 07-01-2014 at 03:16 AM.
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    No no I know that, I kinda worded it wrong but what I meant was it is just like wrong visually to have a character with a mace and shield punching crap. Imagine if that were the case with like dfo and fighters. It's like a huge eyesore to see that.

    Why couldnt they just have monks equip fists to make it look cooler? I get that it is easier because they fall under the priest class but it still kinda just rubs me the wrong way a bit.
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    I'm not too fond of the Monk thing either, but it seems so unimportant compared to many other questions, that I don't really want to waste pages discussing that.

    Most important info in Q&A 6 for me was that there might be classes that dedicate themselves to herding sheep or crafting arrows. Very Sword Art Online-esque.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashis View Post
    No no I know that, I kinda worded it wrong but what I meant was it is just like wrong visually to have a character with a mace and shield punching crap. Imagine if that were the case with like dfo and fighters. It's like a huge eyesore to see that.

    Why couldnt they just have monks equip fists to make it look cooler? I get that it is easier because they fall under the priest class but it still kinda just rubs me the wrong way a bit.
    They probably got other spells that use the mace animations brah.

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    actually even though this hast the more or less least advanced graphics for games in the last few years this looks actually like it could finally be something worth playing again ^^

    who cares for all those ultra high end graphics combined with the worst possible gameplay ever if you can have something with medicore graphics and good gameplay ! (at least I hope this will have good gameplay)
    already had high hopes for Wakfu but at least in the beta it got to fast to hard to solo and as long as I have not enough real friends playing I tend to play solo most of the time

    So if this is like Wakfu with RO combat and whatever else there is I am sold

    I REALLY REALLY HOPE this is finally a game which actually wants to make me pay money for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youkai View Post
    actually even though this hast the more or less least advanced graphics for games in the last few years this looks actually like it could finally be something worth playing again ^^

    who cares for all those ultra high end graphics combined with the worst possible gameplay ever if you can have something with medicore graphics and good gameplay ! (at least I hope this will have good gameplay)
    already had high hopes for Wakfu but at least in the beta it got to fast to hard to solo and as long as I have not enough real friends playing I tend to play solo most of the time

    So if this is like Wakfu with RO combat and whatever else there is I am sold

    I REALLY REALLY HOPE this is finally a game which actually wants to make me pay money for it
    When artist start caring again, we'll see more games with beautiful designs. Usually only see it in AAA games but even then it looks like your average 3D model + Shaders.

    Well I'm sold if they release a game with actually good features. It seems like they're doing just that.
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    Gameplay video:
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    Since I never really posted my thoughts about the game on these forums, let me cross-post what I wrote on another forum:


    Things I really like about Tree of Savior:
    1) The development staff is awesome and incredibly communicative towards their fans (I've never seen Korean developers write so much English!)
    2) Random spawn locations! Basically it will be the only game next to RO that actually has random spawn locations. This is one of the main reasons I liked RO.
    3) It has some features I really find neet like for example that monsters will run around randomly at first, but if they meet allied monsters, they will group up and walk around together.
    4) Graphic style looks amazing.
    5) The job system seems to have non-combat classes - you can completely dedicate yourself and be as specialized as "Creates arrows for archers" or "Tending sheep". It's not fully developed yet, but I always wanted to see more games that have a completely community driven economy. Seems like they are going into that direction.
    6) The combat is very action-y and requires playing skill.
    7) Possible gamepad support!

    Things that I don't like:
    C1) Exp gets adjusted depending on level difference. I really hate this system and it was one of the main reasons I quit official RO when renewal came. This system always makes games too easy because there is no real reward for fighting monsters above your level. I prefer a risk & reward system, where a double as strong monster gives quadruple as much exp.
    C2) The stat system doesn't encourage hybrid builds. It's just "1 stat point per level". I think what RO did perfectly was the stat system. The whole idea of increasing costs with higher stats was amazing and worked out so perfectly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rya.Reisender View Post
    Since I never really posted my thoughts about the game on these forums, let me cross-post what I wrote on another forum:


    Things I really like about Tree of Savior:
    1) The development staff is awesome and incredibly communicative towards their fans (I've never seen Korean developers write so much English!)
    2) Random spawn locations! Basically it will be the only game next to RO that actually has random spawn locations. This is one of the main reasons I liked RO.
    3) It has some features I really find neet like for example that monsters will run around randomly at first, but if they meet allied monsters, they will group up and walk around together.
    4) Graphic style looks amazing.
    5) The job system seems to have non-combat classes - you can completely dedicate yourself and be as specialized as "Creates arrows for archers" or "Tending sheep". It's not fully developed yet, but I always wanted to see more games that have a completely community driven economy. Seems like they are going into that direction.
    6) The combat is very action-y and requires playing skill.
    7) Possible gamepad support!

    Things that I don't like:
    C1) Exp gets adjusted depending on level difference. I really hate this system and it was one of the main reasons I quit official RO when renewal came. This system always makes games too easy because there is no real reward for fighting monsters above your level. I prefer a risk & reward system, where a double as strong monster gives quadruple as much exp.
    C2) The stat system doesn't encourage hybrid builds. It's just "1 stat point per level". I think what RO did perfectly was the stat system. The whole idea of increasing costs with higher stats was amazing and worked out so perfectly.
    The only problem with that is people will usually find easy ways to kill those tough monsters, from exploiting or clever use of mechanics, which in turn causes a nerf which in turn causes an uproar from the community.
    No matter what people won't be satisfied with what they give us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by markca View Post
    The only problem with that is people will usually find easy ways to kill those tough monsters, from exploiting or clever use of mechanics, which in turn causes a nerf which in turn causes an uproar from the community.
    No matter what people won't be satisfied with what they give us.
    We will, or no one would be playing MMOs right now. We're satisfied with what they do and give us. We might not be happy with it, but we're sated. Nerfs/buffs are always the wrong way to go about things, If one thing is wrong with a class. Revamp it, don't even look at scaling the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rya.Reisender View Post
    C1) Exp gets adjusted depending on level difference. I really hate this system and it was one of the main reasons I quit official RO when renewal came. This system always makes games too easy because there is no real reward for fighting monsters above your level. I prefer a risk & reward system, where a double as strong monster gives quadruple as much exp.
    C2) The stat system doesn't encourage hybrid builds. It's just "1 stat point per level". I think what RO did perfectly was the stat system. The whole idea of increasing costs with higher stats was amazing and worked out so perfectly.
    Kind of what markca was saying, with so many classes, there could be a class ridiculously strong in killing overleveled bosses/mobs, giving an EXTREME unfair advantage for them to level. Plus then you open up a can of worms because then "illegitimate" leveling (no idea how else to put it other than using the word that is censored. -.-) will come into play. Otherwise I do agree with you, because if you are skilled enough to kill the high level mobs, then you definitely deserve greater rewards, in my opinion.

    I really did enjoy RO's stat point system as well, but I do not think it added as much diversity as some people think (perhaps that is not YOUR point though). One still ended up having quite a limited "optimal" build with stat points in RO. I think ToS's goal is to create diversity else where, i.e. the skills, which I think can be a lot more successful. Stat points are kind of a boring aspect, if you think about it, it essentially only changes the numbers, not your play style.

    I am really curious about the class system, specifically on advancing "ranks"/job changing. You have the choice to stay a Wizard, for example, than job changing. Is that a permanent decision? Or can you change willy nilly? If you can change later, do you drag over the 2nd rank skills too? I hope that you cannot change willy nilly, I really like the idea of people making a decision and being forced to stick with it. (mostly because it deters the "flavor of the month" type phenomena)
    Last edited by Slimmy; 07-06-2014 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Word was censored. @.@

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
    Kind of what markca was saying, with so many classes, there could be a class ridiculously strong in killing overleveled bosses/mobs, giving an EXTREME unfair advantage for them to level. Plus then you open up a can of worms because then "illegitimate" leveling (no idea how else to put it other than using the word that is censored. -.-) will come into play. Otherwise I do agree with you, because if you are skilled enough to kill the high level mobs, then you definitely deserve greater rewards, in my opinion.

    I really did enjoy RO's stat point system as well, but I do not think it added as much diversity as some people think (perhaps that is not YOUR point though). One still ended up having quite a limited "optimal" build with stat points in RO. I think ToS's goal is to create diversity else where, i.e. the skills, which I think can be a lot more successful. Stat points are kind of a boring aspect, if you think about it, it essentially only changes the numbers, not your play style.

    I am really curious about the class system, specifically on advancing "ranks"/job changing. You have the choice to stay a Wizard, for example, than job changing. Is that a permanent decision? Or can you change willy nilly? If you can change later, do you drag over the 2nd rank skills too? I hope that you cannot change willy nilly, I really like the idea of people making a decision and being forced to stick with it. (mostly because it deters the "flavor of the month" type phenomena)
    Well that's what beta test are for, on top of the fact. a couple of developers minds will never amount up to thousands of mmo players minds. We will always find the fastest and most efficient way to get leveling done. Something will always be exploited. You can't control how something work, you can just assume people will use the intended tools before finding the exploits.
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    Yeah, I don't see that problem either. Make all movements being controlled server-sided and then there can't be any "Instant kill monster" hacks. As for exploiting weaknesses - well those exploits can be fixed or simply be considered a legitimate tactic.

    I didn't mind that in RO there were tricks to kill off a strong MVP. It still required a lot of training and good teamwork (coordination) to get this working in the first place, so why not reward it? If it's too cheap, fix the exploit.
    (Most big RO exploits only worked on private servers anyway.)

    Not that RO is a good example though. No exploits is always better. And it's quite possible to not leave any cheap tricks. If you look at any modern AAA title none of them have cheap tricks to kill off a strong boss.

    Risk = Reward will always be best.


    Regarding stat point system. Well in RO it was so amazing because the structure of the 6 stats: STR, DEX, VIT, AGI, INT and LUK worked so perfectly. Almost every class can make use of any stat. And combined with "cost increases the higher the stat" if often wasn't all so bad to put a few points in any stat.
    For example just take INT. On other MMORPG only magicians and healers get INT. In RO any class can make use of INT because it does not only increase magic damage put also the max SP (MP) and SP recovery. And being able to use skills more often is a big benefit for any class. It never hurt to put 10 or 20 points into it.
    Or look at the dynamic of damage. For physical classes all stats except for INT matter quite of bit. You need STR to increase your base damage, AGI to increase your speed, DEX to actually be able to hit and LUK for critical hits. But those stats are not stand alone, they influence each other. High damage is a lot more significant if you also attack fast. So STR and AGI actually support each other. The more STR you have the more useful gets AGI and the other way around. But both are useless if you don't have DEX because otherwise you won't hit. But wait, there is also LUK that causes critical which always ignore defense and always hit. So one could also opt for LUK instead of DEX. And the resulting classes are all viable, though they are viable for different situations. A class with high LUK for example is good against monster with high flee or defense, but bad against the rest. A class with high STR and AGI is good against all monsters that don't have a high hit rate because you will almost nullify the damage you take.
    And there is so much more.

    True, if you just consider PVP, then there are only 1-2 viable builds per class, but in PVE there are hundreds of viable builds, all good for a different situation and location.

    Games that just have "Put X stat points per level" almost always end up with "Physical attackers put all in STR, magical attackers put all in INT", because maximizing damage is always the most viable solution. Any single point into a defensive stat will just mean your damage sucks later on.


    Regarding the class system, I understood it so that even if you stay Wizard, it's a new class and can't be taken back.
    I think of it like RO's class system except that instead of splitting into 2 classes, it splits into 3 classes wheras one class has the same name as the previous class just with added title. They called it "Tier 2" but might as well imagine just putting a "High" in front of Wizard for example.



    Q&A 7 is up: http://blog.treeofsavior.com/en/?p=180
    Last edited by Rya.Reisender; 07-07-2014 at 06:37 AM.

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    All the classes look so unique, indeed. It's mind boggling.
    Still, I'm going to be playing the same class I played when I first started Ragnarok Online: A Generic 2-Handed Swordsman with Red hair. Because nostalgia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rya.Reisender View Post

    Regarding stat point system. Well in RO it was so amazing because the structure of the 6 stats: STR, DEX, VIT, AGI, INT and LUK worked so perfectly. Almost every class can make use of any stat. And combined with "cost increases the higher the stat" if often wasn't all so bad to put a few points in any stat.
    For example just take INT. On other MMORPG only magicians and healers get INT. In RO any class can make use of INT because it does not only increase magic damage put also the max SP (MP) and SP recovery. And being able to use skills more often is a big benefit for any class. It never hurt to put 10 or 20 points into it.
    Or look at the dynamic of damage. For physical classes all stats except for INT matter quite of bit. You need STR to increase your base damage, AGI to increase your speed, DEX to actually be able to hit and LUK for critical hits. But those stats are not stand alone, they influence each other. High damage is a lot more significant if you also attack fast. So STR and AGI actually support each other. The more STR you have the more useful gets AGI and the other way around. But both are useless if you don't have DEX because otherwise you won't hit. But wait, there is also LUK that causes critical which always ignore defense and always hit. So one could also opt for LUK instead of DEX. And the resulting classes are all viable, though they are viable for different situations. A class with high LUK for example is good against monster with high flee or defense, but bad against the rest. A class with high STR and AGI is good against all monsters that don't have a high hit rate because you will almost nullify the damage you take.
    And there is so much more.

    That's why RO is the best game in that regards. No other game is this amazing in term of character growth.
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    Q&A 10: http://blog.treeofsavior.com/en/?p=221

    No new unique classes this time, but a bit insight into the equip/drop system.

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    Too many classes MIGHT be bad, but damn if everything doesn't look gorgeous.

    I'm just hoping PvP will be as fast paced as RO1 and I'll definitely be playing the heck out of this game.

    And yes, RO1's stat system was an absolute beauty. It's not even just the hybrid stat builds due to increasing stat costs, but that there were stat breakpoints and thus people built their characters around the gear they had. Yeah sure, there were some builds where 99/99/25 was the best, but there are (almost) always other stat builds for the same class, even for PvP.

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    My good sir, I don't think there can be too many classes. For this game at least. I love the idea of becoming a class most people haven't even discovered yet. It'll finally give me the feel that I can be unique, especially in a world where a lot of mmos promise that. Yet, have 4 classes and in the end everyone's fighting to get the same stuff and you just blend in with the crowd. Yeah I really hope it turns out to be as smooth and as beautiful as it looks!

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    This game cannot release soon enough, damn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rya.Reisender View Post
    Yeah, I don't see that problem either. Make all movements being controlled server-sided and then there can't be any "Instant kill monster" hacks. As for exploiting weaknesses - well those exploits can be fixed or simply be considered a legitimate tactic.

    I didn't mind that in RO there were tricks to kill off a strong MVP. It still required a lot of training and good teamwork (coordination) to get this working in the first place, so why not reward it? If it's too cheap, fix the exploit.
    (Most big RO exploits only worked on private servers anyway.)

    Not that RO is a good example though. No exploits is always better. And it's quite possible to not leave any cheap tricks. If you look at any modern AAA title none of them have cheap tricks to kill off a strong boss.

    Risk = Reward will always be best.


    Regarding stat point system. Well in RO it was so amazing because the structure of the 6 stats: STR, DEX, VIT, AGI, INT and LUK worked so perfectly. Almost every class can make use of any stat. And combined with "cost increases the higher the stat" if often wasn't all so bad to put a few points in any stat.
    For example just take INT. On other MMORPG only magicians and healers get INT. In RO any class can make use of INT because it does not only increase magic damage put also the max SP (MP) and SP recovery. And being able to use skills more often is a big benefit for any class. It never hurt to put 10 or 20 points into it.
    Or look at the dynamic of damage. For physical classes all stats except for INT matter quite of bit. You need STR to increase your base damage, AGI to increase your speed, DEX to actually be able to hit and LUK for critical hits. But those stats are not stand alone, they influence each other. High damage is a lot more significant if you also attack fast. So STR and AGI actually support each other. The more STR you have the more useful gets AGI and the other way around. But both are useless if you don't have DEX because otherwise you won't hit. But wait, there is also LUK that causes critical which always ignore defense and always hit. So one could also opt for LUK instead of DEX. And the resulting classes are all viable, though they are viable for different situations. A class with high LUK for example is good against monster with high flee or defense, but bad against the rest. A class with high STR and AGI is good against all monsters that don't have a high hit rate because you will almost nullify the damage you take.
    And there is so much more.

    True, if you just consider PVP, then there are only 1-2 viable builds per class, but in PVE there are hundreds of viable builds, all good for a different situation and location.

    Games that just have "Put X stat points per level" almost always end up with "Physical attackers put all in STR, magical attackers put all in INT", because maximizing damage is always the most viable solution. Any single point into a defensive stat will just mean your damage sucks later on.


    Regarding the class system, I understood it so that even if you stay Wizard, it's a new class and can't be taken back.
    I think of it like RO's class system except that instead of splitting into 2 classes, it splits into 3 classes wheras one class has the same name as the previous class just with added title. They called it "Tier 2" but might as well imagine just putting a "High" in front of Wizard for example.



    Q&A 7 is up: http://blog.treeofsavior.com/en/?p=180
    And yet if I'm a Wizard, the only stats I need are dex and int. Priest? int, dex and vit. Skills don't crit, so why stat luck? lol. I've never touched that stat and took it serious and it's usually 1.

    IMO, Dofus has a better stat system.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by feyte View Post
    Too many classes MIGHT be bad, but damn if everything doesn't look gorgeous.

    I'm just hoping PvP will be as fast paced as RO1 and I'll definitely be playing the heck out of this game.

    And yes, RO1's stat system was an absolute beauty. It's not even just the hybrid stat builds due to increasing stat costs, but that there were stat breakpoints and thus people built their characters around the gear they had. Yeah sure, there were some builds where 99/99/25 was the best, but there are (almost) always other stat builds for the same class, even for PvP.
    In this game you're able to actively attack with your main and off-hand by pressing Z or C. In RO, the only time you can "block" is by using a skill like defending aura or shield reflect. In this game you're able to defend whenever you want without having to depend on it as a skill. So in terms of difficulty, I'd say it beats RO's battle mechanics by a huge margin. You can already imagine scenarios where an enemy would kill you with one shot in RO but in this game depending on how you move or block you can avoid that. It's an action rpg.

    This game will have a lot of classes but the good thing about it is...even if you decide to stay as a certain class your skills for that specific class will still get a boost. This way the other classes won't outgrow you. The more classes and combinations a game have, the more unique each and everyone can be. Isn't this a good thing? The moment when 80% of the population want to be a certain class because it's "popular" or "easier" to play that's when you have a sign that the game is failing.

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