My dear otaku nerdlings, may I present to you...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerM View Post
    Yes... because skirts showing 7 miles of leg were not intended to be sexy.
    There's generally a difference between sexy and "inappropriate." The line does differ from person to person.

    Sailor Moon had lots of the former. To my knowledge there really wasn't any "fan service" or strong focus on it. No old men with nose bleeds or anything like that.

    It definitely sexualized women albeit in a fairly passive way.

    I may think differently if each scout wasn't designed to be an early 90's 8-10.
    Yes, all that "seven miles" of cartoon leg. That's just oh-so erotic!

    May I inform you that the creator of Sailor Moon is a woman. Her name is Naoko Takeuchi. She did intend for the senshi to be sexy, but not in the way that is offensive and over-the-top.

    She didn't create the costumes with the thought of "I want to give boys bners."

    Moreover, in Japan and South Korea, short shorts and skirts are common and socially acceptable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TuxedoSam View Post
    Moreover, in Japan and South Korea, short shorts and skirts are common and socially acceptable.
    Short shorts and skirts are also common and socially acceptable here in Los Angeles. What's your point?

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    As I said, it's passive sexualization. Meaning it may not have been intended. She may have designed the characters based on a subconscious template of what she thinks women need to be based on years of past sexualization.

    Meaning, she may not have sat down and said "I want to make my characters sexually appealing." But if she didn't most likely believes sex appeal is important by default.

    The same can be said on fashion. We wear things for various reasons. Such as supporting a cause, making a statement, simple comfort, or style.

    I really don't see how any but the latter -really- apply to short skirts and booty shorts.
    So, what makes them stylish? Because they're sexy. They show off/complement the body.

    Yes. Short Skirts and Booty Shorts may be "common and socially acceptable" but that, with limited exception, only applies to those of "ideal" physique.


    Sailor Moon characters were, in part, designed by the preconceived notion that women should be fit a certain template. While it does not actively promote sexualization, it is passively present and as a result it continues to spread the idea subliminally.

    And that type of subliminal message from a child's Hero can make a lasting impression.

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    Everything is a template. You can't make an argument out of the idea that a show presents one.
    If you ban pictures of people in all shows, or replace woman by black blobs,but that's a template too.

    The funny thing is this is never going to be about girls "shocked by the way the hero desses".
    It's always going to be about older generation folks, especially parents, becoming "concerned".

    It's not going to "protect girls/woman from sexual deviants", if you teach them that sex is bad and for this reason they must submit control over any aspect of their life that has something to do with that.
    I would believe that at least half of all grown up woman know as much about fashion, as amounts to "how to dress like shit, so no one will look at them".
    I will tell you one thing, a not "model type" girl will might gain some self confidence, if their parents put them in a potato sack, tell them that being pretty is the devils work and all other girls will go to hell. Still that look is ugly and it's from the inside that "supposedly" matters more, because you can "supposedly" put a number on that too.

    As a final disclaimer: I don't have any concerns about what any kind of woman chooses in later life. Yes it's all media inprints, because heck, who the hell designs their own fashion, furniture and the look of their car? The thing is, that the idea here is that woman don't deserve that choice, they don't deserve to find out on their own what fits and if they do they are sluts, dumb, media controlled and setting a bad example.

    Actually that show is for an age of girls which naturally would experiment with clothing, would we let them. But we can't.
    This is woman we talk about.
    Can't have them running around doing whaterver they damn well please.
    Last edited by Ronin; 06-09-2014 at 10:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerM View Post
    Snip.
    It's a cartoon; a form of self-expression and entertainment, and it is far from displaying objectification. Ok, so lots of men think the art is sexy. Guys think anything they are sexually attracted to is sexy. Put an attractive, full-clothed woman on TV and people will still sexualize her. Why? Because hetero guys like girls. That's biology.

    Personally, I don't consider the original anime characters to be sexy. The art just doesn't do it for me. I think the sex appeal is way overrated, but I do think they're cute. The manga, however, is sexy.

    It's real peoples' behaviors and the depictions of real people that influence society to mistreat women based on their appearance and clothing. Sure, those elements are present in cartoons, but a cartoon depiction of strong girls who do positive acts and happen to have cute clothes, is not part of that problem. Clothing is not what makes bad behavior. It's the mentality that it does.

    The cartoons that depict girls as helpless, unintelligent, and other negative stereotypes, are so much more harmful than just a simple short skirt. If children had resources, good influences, and a healthy environment throughout their lives, they likely wouldn't view women as sex objects, even with fictional cartoons on their TV screens.

    While I probably wouldn't be a fan of cartoons depicting harems of women that are ditsy, big-titted decorations, I wouldn't be opposed to them. Because I can differentiate between real life, fantasy, and personality traits to legitimately judge people based on, so why can't you? Unless you are autistic and the like, you should be fully capable of making those distinctions too. Again, it's just a matter of having the right resources and influences in your life.

    This patriarchal, manly-man, bros before hos, blame-women-for-all-my-problems-I-can't-control culture stimulates sexual objectification. That's what you should really be targeting. Because you, yourself, are participating in and facilitating society's sexualization culture by tunnel-visioning on women's legs as only a sexual organ, rather than a human body part. THAT is objectification.
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    "....However, as with all things, you will encounter the odd retard and or asshole."
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    Sexualization and objectification. Not the same thing unless you're an asshat.
    I know it's possible for a woman to be smart, strong, funny and sexy.

    The point is that the media has it drilled into our minds and culture that the latter is also required or it some how diminishes the other more important qualities.

    It's a common issue for adolescence/teenagers, male and female. They can be f*cking awesome, for lack of a better adjective. However they are often tormented by others and by themselves if they don't meet visual standards.

    This mindset isn't just instilled on males. I have personally never seen a man refuse to be friends with another just because one is -ugly.- I have however seen women DESTROY each other emotionally just because one has apparent physical flaws.

    There's nothing wrong with being attractive, I just hate all the douchebaggery that results due to the media imprint.
    I hate seeing people suffering with anorexia, bulimia, depression and myriad of other problems because they don't think they meet what is "common and socially acceptable."

    Sailor Moon does nothing to dissuade from this.

    If you don't see a problem. F*ck.
    Last edited by FarmerM; 06-09-2014 at 08:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerM View Post
    Sailor Moon does nothing to dissuade from this.

    If you don't see a problem. F*ck.
    I don't see a problem with a TV show not dissuading.
    Society as it is, is unhealthy to the bone.
    The show does not play into that.
    Sailor Moon isnt a public health issue.

    Concerning bullying: Bullying isn't caused by the media. The direction it takes is casued by culture. Not letting children watch TV is not going to help.
    Last edited by Ronin; 06-09-2014 at 09:33 PM.

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    I don't see a problem with a TV show not dissuading.
    Society as it is, is unhealthy to the bone.
    I guess you also don't see the irony in that statement?


    That's the thing about passive influences. You often don't realize the effect.
    Modern media greatly influences culture. Saying media does not contribute to things like bullying is inaccurate to say the least.

    If you don't understand what I have said so far, you won't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerM View Post
    asdf
    I agree the media plays massive roles in how men and women view each other and themselves. But again, because people can't differentiate between reality, fantasy, and how to actually treat each other, isn't a reason to censor Sailor Moon's short skirts.

    What you are implying is that all media, including exaggerated, unrealistic cartoons be censored to fit a mold of modesty and conservatism. I don't agree. 1. That's a Republican mind-set, and we all know Republicans are retarded. 2. That reminds me of the book called The Giver. Everything was controlled and perfect. There were no individuals and no one thought for themselves. I don't want to live in that type of world.

    We should be able to have a variety of shows depicting people in all sorts of ways, whether that be bad or good, and be capable of not confusing it with how we feel towards people in reality and ourselves. If we have good role models (parental guardians) and a good environment (society, I mean REAL society), kids wouldn't even have an issue.

    Moreover, if people were negatively affected by SM, I can assure you it is a very rare, small minority. These people also probably lacked resources and guidance as well. I never had that issue as a child. Not with SM, not with Barbies, not with anything that wasn't real. I only ever envied real girls.

    Lastly, there is this misconception that guys are less likely to pick apart flaws in people, while girls are more vicious. It's not true. Guys are just as bad, if not worse. Adolescent boys are more likely to say mean things to someone's face they don't like, while adolescent girls are more likely to talk behind someone's back. That was my experience when I was a child. Which actually makes sense because society urges women to be modest and mute, while men are allowed to be vocal and vulgar. Boys are also not likely to be friends with unattractive/geeky guys/girls unless they have confident and funny personalities. Men and boys are also less likely to date unattractive/overweight women, while women are more likely to be attracted to a man's personality than his exterior. Of course, that's not true for everyone.

    Additionally, if you've ever watched a video game stream, especially one with hundreds or thousands of viewers, the commenters tear people apart, constantly. "He's so fat." "She's ugly." "Show us your tits, slut." Et cetera. The majority of video game consumers/viewers are male. It only appears that women are crueler because so many hateful blogs based on who's the prettiest exist. It's just a matter of having a platform that is relevant to each respective social group's interests. Girls like celebrity blogs, boys like gamer blogs. Ironically, the latter isn't about physical appearance at all, yet it always degrades to that anyway. Both are infested with disrespectful individuals who lack a moral compass.
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