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Thread: No girls allowed in Hearthstone E-sports

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    Default No girls allowed in Hearthstone E-sports

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/02/he...ne-tournament/

    A user on Reddit's Hearthstone community yesterday shared this image—from an announcement page for a Hearthstone qualifier taking place during Finland's Assembly Summer 2014. What made "Karuta's" post notable was a single, highlighted sentence: "The participation is open only to Finnish male players."

    That is, to state the obvious, a strange requirement for a Hearthstone tournament; and it makes the qualifier's organisers, the Finnish eSports Federation, seem like childish boys in a treehouse, hanging a "no girls allowed" sign on their front door. Only, the qualifier is for for the IeSF World Championship, and it's this global event that has stipulated the all-male line-up.

    "Your information is indeed correct, the tournament is open to Finnish male players only," said Markus "Olodyn" Koskivirta, head admin of the Assembly Summer 2014 Hearthstone IeSF Qualifier, in a statement to PC Gamer. "In accordance with the International e-Sports Federation's (IeSF) tournament regulations, since the main tournament event is open to male players only. This is to avoid possible conflicts (e.g. a female player eliminating a male player during RO8) among other things."

    Koskivirta's argument is that, by allowing women into their qualifier, there's a risk that the winner wouldn't be eligible to enter the IeSF's World Championship final.

    The IeSF, or International e-Sports Federation, is a global organisation based in South Korea that is comprised of e-sports associations from across the world. Their stated aim is to promote e-sports as a "true sport". The IeSF's sixth World Championship will take place this November, in Baku, Azerbaijan.

    Here's the tournament list, from the organisation's Facebook event page:

    Male Competition: Dota 2, Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, Ultra Street Fighter IV
    Female Competition: Starcraft 2, Tekken Tag Tournament 2
    It's an absurd division. Seemingly it tells us that Ultra Street Fighter IV is for boys, and Tekken Tag Tournament is for girls; that women aren't meant to play Dota 2 or Hearthstone; and that while both men and women can play Starcraft 2, they damn well better not do it together.

    Of course, that's not what the IeSF are saying. Their reasoning is far more insidious than that. In a reply to a Facebook comment asking why men and women had been divided, the IeSF responded with the following:

    "The decision to divide male and female competitions was made in accordance with international sports authorities, as part of our effort to promote e-Sports as a legitimate sports."

    It's a bizarre statement, attempting to defend a seemingly indefensible decision. E-sports can be recognised as a "legitimate sport" while still staying true to the differences that exist. Hearthstone is not a game that requires any division by gender—to do so is a completely arbitrary decision that smacks of a desperation to be taken seriously.

    As for Assembly Summer 2014, Koskivirta told us that all other tournaments were "open to all genders". "We would also like to point out that the Finnish eSports Federation is currently lobbying for the equal rights of male and female players in the IeSF tournaments," he said. "This is an ongoing process and we of course welcome any support in this matter."

    We have contacted the IeSF for a statement.

    Image source: IeSF.

    Update: The original version of the article stated that Assembly Summer 2014 was organised by the Finnish eSports Federation. This is not the case, and has been corrected.

    Update 2:

    The IeSF have responded to questions about their stance on male-only tournaments on their Facebook page, giving two justifications, quoted below.

    "1 - promoting female players. We know that e-Sports is largely dominated by male players and females players are actually a portion of the overall player base. By hosting a female-only competition, we strive to promote female gaming on a global scale.

    "2 - International standards. IeSF is very close to get e-Sports recognized as a true sports like it should be. Part of that efforts is to comply with the international sports regulations. For example, chess is also divided into male / female leagues."

    To point one, there isn't a Hearthstone competition for women, who are only allowed to enter StarCraft 2 and Tekken Tag Tournament contests, and segregation has historically proven to be a pretty poor basis for the promotion of equality. To point two, we're unsure to what "international sports regulations" the IeSF are adhering to, and why separating men and women would "get e-Sports recognized as a true sports." The Chess example is odd, because while there is a separate competition for women, women can enter the World Chess Championship and compete against men. Just ask Judit Polgár.

    Update 3:
    Another update from the IeSF on Facebook, which suggests they're absorbing the feedback.

    "In the last hours we have received lots of feedback from your regarding the IeSF 6th e-Sports World Championship, particularly regarding the male/female tournament division.

    "We want to thank you for your interest in e-Sports and for sharing your opinions. The e-Sports community opinion is always important to the IeSF.

    "Our top priority is to promote e-Sports in the best ways we can. We believe that listening is important, are we're now collecting your opinions from the social media, and we will update soon."


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    So..whats the point? Doesn't all sports have different leagues for men and women? and don't most E-sport competitions host male only events? (there are some for women)

    EDIT: You don't even post your opinion. You just copy paste the news article.

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    Is there any empirical evidence that men and women are different(better or worse than the other) at video games?

    I know separation in physical sports is due to the vast differences in physical capabilities between the genders, especially at that level of fitness, but I don't believe our mental differences would affect gaming in any way.

    Obviously I could be wrong, that's why I'm wondering if there's evidence or not yet.

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    Guys hate when girls win.

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    guys r ****ing stupid then

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykiss View Post
    guys r ****ing stupid then

    Well I can totally agree with you on that or I would say the male community for moba game are retarded S-heads but that´s nothing new just check the arguments the have witch moba game is better instead of playing and having fun and just play the game you like but not they must fight over it like a bunch of 5 years old´s. So no wonder even the one hosting the event is a bunch of A-holes.

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    I just think it's really unfair that women can't play games with guys, there is nothing that distinguishes them regarding eSports. Maybe someday.

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    I'm a bit confused here, how do these 'girls' participate in a gaming event in the first place? Do they have like ovens integrated into the PCs? Or by 'participate' you mean they're there making sandwiches for real, male players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitey View Post
    So..whats the point? Doesn't all sports have different leagues for men and women? and don't most E-sport competitions host male only events? (there are some for women)

    EDIT: You don't even post your opinion. You just copy paste the news article.
    not even trying to post my opinion , its just a news article , calm down


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    HS is super RNG and casual. Its actually the perfect e-sport for girls. You dont even need to practise hard. But HS and e-sport in the same sentence does make me cringe. Its funny seeing some of the supposed pro top players got eliminated in the last tourney 1st rounds. And a unknown player won it. You might as well have flipped coins. Almost all games got decides by draws and starting hands. Like every other card game, but more so in HS. Just counter deck to get maybe a 60/40 matchup in your favor. Then still lose.
    Last edited by Beatrix23; 07-02-2014 at 06:10 PM.

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    Cause they obviously want to have real matches. These lonely bastards will probably lose on purpose and hope they'll get laid.

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    I should have known that trying to spark real discussion within OnRPG wouldn't work.

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    I think you meant to post this is the lounge. If not, then that means pretty much all of you get warnings, and the one guy who decides to post sexist jokes gets temp/permabanned.

    Just saying, think about the content of your posts before you actually post.


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    yeah, this doesn't make sense.

    title 9 has only made female participation and achievement in sports reach greater and greater heights in the US.

    they are literally saying, "legitimate sports split genders so we should too to seem legitimate."

    UMMMM barack obama appears legitimate and he wears a tie. I'm not as legit as obama if I wear a tie.

    It just doesn't logically follow. This is basic formal functioning. Kids are able to think this stuff through by age 12.

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    I didn't feel like reading the entire article so if this was posted somewhere, then so be it.

    But I'm assuming one of the main reasons is because of sympathy that male gamers may or may not have towards female gamers that can throw off the entire tournament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acreon View Post
    Is there any empirical evidence that men and women are different(better or worse than the other) at video games?
    You know, the thing is it's fashionable to talk about high evidence standards, but in the end no one reads those studies in full and all you get is some sensationalist myth some person projected onto it. Otherwise it's not news and you won't get to see it.

    Do you really need a study to answer your question?
    I could make one up for you...

    @topic:
    How long did it take for female soccer to gain any traction? Well, it still doesn't have much anyways. How long will heartstone last as a "sport"? A handful of years? Who knows...
    That they don't feature a female league for that game doesn't strike me as a situation where I I need to start calling out that the "pillars of society are broken".
    I bet you one thing though: The Koreans made split leagues because their audience prefers watching those. As a matter of fact, they built their format the way they wanted and succeeded. That's the issue at hand. We don't need to build some hate-storm towards any individual who doesn't do exactly as we believe.

    It's not corporate responsibility to be politically correct. If you need a law for that, make it a debate for a law, but it would be a joke.

    I guess the idea that there are mags who refuse to portray naked males must blow the mind of some people.
    Gaming is not a political arena. I am sick of that internet-rage BS that lasts 25 seconds total.

    There is a proactive way to get your goals through. If girls want to run in competitions, they have it harder? Well spending all your life on complaining about imperfections won't get you out of the door and into the action. It's not and I was tempted to caps that, worth it to shut down a running competition, because 1 or 2 girls might not be allowed the chance to compete every 4 to 5 years.
    If you don't like that idea, just skip any tournament that does it. It's not a big deal.

    (How can I phrase the core of my point, that in the way I did above might offend people, in a way that is more slimy, less authentic and less "attackable":
    The web is a public square. We need to stop putting up pillories and display and we don't need public stoning. It doesn't go anywhere. Machism in esport won't go away. Female F1 drivers made a combined total of 0,5 world championship points in the history of the sport. No one is going to shut it down because it's "exclusive". People who look to celebrities don't do that, because they are like them, but because they are different. That ought to explain why the whole discrimination part is moot. It's the whole point of the endeavor. You are not taking a "precious right", by separating sports in genders. Sport is just a form of clownmanship. If you raise the money, you can make your own silly show. That's plenty enough equality right there, for anyone to use that cares longer for the topic than the 25 secs. (Even though I wanted to be reconciling in the second rant, I ended up saying the same thing again. I don't "believe it with the fibre of my heart" so to speak and I am sorry for every person who lost out on a big chance in life because of not being allowed into some HS competition. I know girls have it hard enough. I am not a mass media person. I don't feel guilty how it treats woman and I don't much care for the political scope of that fact. I know it will never be fair. It to a big part feeds on that fact. I can't even relate to and emphasize the naivete that it could anymore... That's why I botched my second attempt.))
    Last edited by Ronin; 07-02-2014 at 11:20 PM.

    Stay frosty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitey View Post
    So..whats the point? Doesn't all sports have different leagues for men and women? and don't most E-sport competitions host male only events? (there are some for women)

    EDIT: You don't even post your opinion. You just copy paste the news article.
    but sports are sports and e sports aren't sports. the same way rap battles and pumpkin carving contests aren't sports

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katagiri View Post
    Guys hate when girls win.
    You can beat me anytime. I don't mind.

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    I can see why there are separation of gender for more physically intense sports such as football, basketball, track&field. But an e-sports? That's absurd. E-sport is more similar to chess than the physically intense sports and yet women are allowed to participate in the World Chess Tournament. E.g.) Judit Polgar.

    Oh and equestrianism. That's a co-ed competitive sport as well.

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    I don't mind when there are personal, less popular tournaments for a specific gender, but not when it comes to big tournaments that represent the state/country/world. I also wouldn't mind if IeSF hosted a temporary separate tournament for women, and also simultaneously allowed men and women into the main tournament for all games.

    I only suggest to have two tournaments because I do feel a separate tournament would encourage, convince, and inspire women to get involved with the e-sports scene. As of right now, entering e-sports tournaments is intimidating for women in various ways. There are many negative stereotypes about women and they're constantly harassed. Women tend to feel more comfortable and confident during all-women events and tournaments.

    Men wouldn't need a separate tournament because e-sports is already dominated by men. They have less discrimination and require less encouragement and convincing to participate.

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    who are all these people itt

    edit: oh, i see. free mmo/j4g types.

    anyways, i think it's real dumb, obviously.
    Last edited by postrook; 07-03-2014 at 02:26 AM.

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    I saw a girl kicking butt at Starcraft just the other week. Think that was Dreamhack or some shit.

    Anyways, they can make the rules whatever they like, plenty of other tournaments women can join. Maybe even get some crowdfunding to host their own kawaii animu ladies only quakeathon. But nooo, they just sit on internet forums and (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z0MBiE View Post
    I saw a girl kicking butt at Starcraft just the other week. Think that was Dreamhack or some shit.

    Anyways, they can make the rules whatever they like, plenty of other tournaments women can join. Maybe even get some crowdfunding to host their own kawaii animu ladies only quakeathon. But nooo, they just sit on internet forums and (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    Everyone knows the best way to spark social progress is to go on the internet and complain! If it works for Tumblr, it can work for anyone!

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    i'm gonna make my own cool-kids-only maplestory tournament and i ain't inviting no one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSkald View Post
    but sports are sports and e sports aren't sports. the same way rap battles and pumpkin carving contests aren't sports
    halloween night, yeh
    cut this pumpkin up, put in a light
    yeh
    makin a jacko'lan-tern
    by the end of this eve
    you gonna end up in an urn

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