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Thread: No girls allowed in Hearthstone E-sports

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    Default No girls allowed in Hearthstone E-sports

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/02/he...ne-tournament/

    A user on Reddit's Hearthstone community yesterday shared this image—from an announcement page for a Hearthstone qualifier taking place during Finland's Assembly Summer 2014. What made "Karuta's" post notable was a single, highlighted sentence: "The participation is open only to Finnish male players."

    That is, to state the obvious, a strange requirement for a Hearthstone tournament; and it makes the qualifier's organisers, the Finnish eSports Federation, seem like childish boys in a treehouse, hanging a "no girls allowed" sign on their front door. Only, the qualifier is for for the IeSF World Championship, and it's this global event that has stipulated the all-male line-up.

    "Your information is indeed correct, the tournament is open to Finnish male players only," said Markus "Olodyn" Koskivirta, head admin of the Assembly Summer 2014 Hearthstone IeSF Qualifier, in a statement to PC Gamer. "In accordance with the International e-Sports Federation's (IeSF) tournament regulations, since the main tournament event is open to male players only. This is to avoid possible conflicts (e.g. a female player eliminating a male player during RO8) among other things."

    Koskivirta's argument is that, by allowing women into their qualifier, there's a risk that the winner wouldn't be eligible to enter the IeSF's World Championship final.

    The IeSF, or International e-Sports Federation, is a global organisation based in South Korea that is comprised of e-sports associations from across the world. Their stated aim is to promote e-sports as a "true sport". The IeSF's sixth World Championship will take place this November, in Baku, Azerbaijan.

    Here's the tournament list, from the organisation's Facebook event page:

    Male Competition: Dota 2, Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, Ultra Street Fighter IV
    Female Competition: Starcraft 2, Tekken Tag Tournament 2
    It's an absurd division. Seemingly it tells us that Ultra Street Fighter IV is for boys, and Tekken Tag Tournament is for girls; that women aren't meant to play Dota 2 or Hearthstone; and that while both men and women can play Starcraft 2, they damn well better not do it together.

    Of course, that's not what the IeSF are saying. Their reasoning is far more insidious than that. In a reply to a Facebook comment asking why men and women had been divided, the IeSF responded with the following:

    "The decision to divide male and female competitions was made in accordance with international sports authorities, as part of our effort to promote e-Sports as a legitimate sports."

    It's a bizarre statement, attempting to defend a seemingly indefensible decision. E-sports can be recognised as a "legitimate sport" while still staying true to the differences that exist. Hearthstone is not a game that requires any division by gender—to do so is a completely arbitrary decision that smacks of a desperation to be taken seriously.

    As for Assembly Summer 2014, Koskivirta told us that all other tournaments were "open to all genders". "We would also like to point out that the Finnish eSports Federation is currently lobbying for the equal rights of male and female players in the IeSF tournaments," he said. "This is an ongoing process and we of course welcome any support in this matter."

    We have contacted the IeSF for a statement.

    Image source: IeSF.

    Update: The original version of the article stated that Assembly Summer 2014 was organised by the Finnish eSports Federation. This is not the case, and has been corrected.

    Update 2:

    The IeSF have responded to questions about their stance on male-only tournaments on their Facebook page, giving two justifications, quoted below.

    "1 - promoting female players. We know that e-Sports is largely dominated by male players and females players are actually a portion of the overall player base. By hosting a female-only competition, we strive to promote female gaming on a global scale.

    "2 - International standards. IeSF is very close to get e-Sports recognized as a true sports like it should be. Part of that efforts is to comply with the international sports regulations. For example, chess is also divided into male / female leagues."

    To point one, there isn't a Hearthstone competition for women, who are only allowed to enter StarCraft 2 and Tekken Tag Tournament contests, and segregation has historically proven to be a pretty poor basis for the promotion of equality. To point two, we're unsure to what "international sports regulations" the IeSF are adhering to, and why separating men and women would "get e-Sports recognized as a true sports." The Chess example is odd, because while there is a separate competition for women, women can enter the World Chess Championship and compete against men. Just ask Judit Polgár.

    Update 3:
    Another update from the IeSF on Facebook, which suggests they're absorbing the feedback.

    "In the last hours we have received lots of feedback from your regarding the IeSF 6th e-Sports World Championship, particularly regarding the male/female tournament division.

    "We want to thank you for your interest in e-Sports and for sharing your opinions. The e-Sports community opinion is always important to the IeSF.

    "Our top priority is to promote e-Sports in the best ways we can. We believe that listening is important, are we're now collecting your opinions from the social media, and we will update soon."


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    Cause they obviously want to have real matches. These lonely bastards will probably lose on purpose and hope they'll get laid.

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    I should have known that trying to spark real discussion within OnRPG wouldn't work.

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    I think you meant to post this is the lounge. If not, then that means pretty much all of you get warnings, and the one guy who decides to post sexist jokes gets temp/permabanned.

    Just saying, think about the content of your posts before you actually post.


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    I can see why there are separation of gender for more physically intense sports such as football, basketball, track&field. But an e-sports? That's absurd. E-sport is more similar to chess than the physically intense sports and yet women are allowed to participate in the World Chess Tournament. E.g.) Judit Polgar.

    Oh and equestrianism. That's a co-ed competitive sport as well.

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    I don't mind when there are personal, less popular tournaments for a specific gender, but not when it comes to big tournaments that represent the state/country/world. I also wouldn't mind if IeSF hosted a temporary separate tournament for women, and also simultaneously allowed men and women into the main tournament for all games.

    I only suggest to have two tournaments because I do feel a separate tournament would encourage, convince, and inspire women to get involved with the e-sports scene. As of right now, entering e-sports tournaments is intimidating for women in various ways. There are many negative stereotypes about women and they're constantly harassed. Women tend to feel more comfortable and confident during all-women events and tournaments.

    Men wouldn't need a separate tournament because e-sports is already dominated by men. They have less discrimination and require less encouragement and convincing to participate.

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    who are all these people itt

    edit: oh, i see. free mmo/j4g types.

    anyways, i think it's real dumb, obviously.

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    Honestly, anyone trying to turn a card game - a virtual one at that - into a sport has their head so far up their ass I'm surprised they can manage to breath.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApocaRUFF View Post
    Honestly, anyone trying to turn a card game - a virtual one at that - into a sport has their head so far up their ass I'm surprised they can manage to breath.
    It's Blizzard so $$$.

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    http://ie-sf.com/bbs/board.php?bo_ta...tice&wr_id=105

    They changed the ruleset.

    IeSF changed their rules after Hearthstone controversy, male-only tournaments will now be open for both genders

    feminism wins

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    Now I know how to gain publicity when I am going to make my own small tournament. Nothing is better than rustling some jimmies, then issuing an "apology" (sorry not sorry) and ride on the given publicity's success


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    You know, the thing is it's fashionable to talk about high evidence standards, but in the end no one reads those studies in full and all you get is some sensationalist myth some person projected onto it. Otherwise it's not news and you won't get to see it.

    Do you really need a study to answer your question?
    I could make one up for you...
    I don't need a study but I happen to enjoy having factual evidence instead of what a lot of people on this topic and similar ones do where they mostly use life experiences, and claiming "that's sexism/isn't sexism" somewhat willy-nilly.

    Do I think women should be allowed to participate on equal grounds in...Hearthstone? Yeah
    Is ActiBlizzin obligated to have 'co-ed' tourneys? no

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    I don't need a study but I happen to enjoy having factual evidence instead of what a lot of people on this topic and similar ones do where they mostly use life experiences, and claiming "that's sexism/isn't sexism" somewhat willy-nilly.
    you may enjoy it, which is great, but life experiences and claims about sexism are not willy-nilly; these contributions are important to any sort of epistemological argument, which is what is fundamentally the kind of discussion is going on.

    for example, are they obligated to have co-ed tourneys? you say no. here is what the claim "they're wrong to not have the tourneys because it's sexist" is saying:

    Do women and men have the same rights in society? Yes.
    Is it immoral to deny one class of persons the rights given to another, or to erect obstacles to those rights? Yes.
    Fundamentally, do people and institutions own their behavior, i.e. are responsible for it? Yes.
    In addition to the laws regarding fair treatment of classes of persons, are they compelled by society and by morality to act morally? Yes.

    Do e-athletes of either gender have a right to participate in a non-gendered sport? Yes.
    Thusly, is it wrong to deny participation of a class of persons in an event where the sport is non-gendered? Yes.
    Does their decision deny participation of a class of persons in an event where the sport is non-gendered? Yes.

    Their decision violates both laws legal and moral, therefore they are compelled to address this fact adequately, either by changing their decision or making amends.

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    Hmmm I didn't think there were laws that would prevent them as doing such(saying no to women) so that's what I meant. Again I think they should have women allowed as default, Just I didn't think it was (currently) illegal to have the separation in place.

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    Anecdotal evidence is ok for the feels, but making decisions on it is so 14th century.

    @Xeno:
    Why do people constantly say they want world peace, but it never happens?
    I say they are making it too easy for themselves.
    Do you really think that the law gives hold to an argument, that the female NFL in the US which was only founded in 2000 is required to be given equal screen time to the male competition (I am not asking anyone's opinions here, but what the law thinks about this question). No? Well in that case what you said about the law doesn't hold.
    Concerning Morals: Is it bad on moral grounds that they don't? What do you do, if it doesn't work out? Do you end the male sportsman careers or do you force sportswoman to compete? Do you institute a quota that everyone must watch, if people dare to just turn of the TV set?

    For everyone's information:
    The public has no morals. The public outcry is not a moral instance. What is done because of it is not a force for good. It's evil impersonated. It's even worse than Abraham's god. The thing it does, is bad by default. The public opinion is the thing that gave us the crusades, the inquisition, the 3rd Reich, the KKK, gender inequalities, slavery, any prosecution of any sexuality, every war since arguably the beginning of modern times...
    The public opinion is an animal and it doesn't care about morals or moral consequence. And ffs, I am sick of people daring to play judge and executioner on the base of skimming over half an article online, while gloating over their own moral righteousness.
    The hypocrisy of it has tired out my tolerance entirely. This kind of act is entirely worse than the things it tracks down and which it kills to feed it's obscene sense of justice. People don't do this shit to do good. They do it, because they enjoy the power that comes with destroying things, that belong to others.
    The public is the ultimate bully.
    Whatever it proceeds to force into happening this way is tainted.
    You flawed fallen creatures. Do you really not see the logs in your own eyes?

    Stay frosty.

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    Unrelated, yet related post:

    In Japan, there was a no-boys-allowed Sailor Moon event. Although, guys could get in if they came as a friend with a woman. I completely understood why they did that. Japan is notorious for the otaku culture. They were also deeply affected by a particular otaku that collected anime and loli shit. He kidnapped little girls, dismembered them, ate them, etc.

    Sailor Moon is an anime, and I can imagine the event could have had creepy otaku there. I mean, guys could have easily gone as long as they had a female to escort them there. If you don't have a female friend, well, then you probably are a creepy otaku.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seya View Post


    i never freaked out ... and you know it but i bet my constant ''dude'' gave some annoyance

    Quote Originally Posted by ApocaRUFF View Post
    Honestly, anyone trying to turn a card game - a virtual one at that - into a sport has their head so far up their ass I'm surprised they can manage to breath.
    it already is ... and who cares if it makes dough its all good.
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    i got used to it after the third day we played D3 together :P .


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    Do you really think that the law gives hold to an argument, that the female NFL in the US which was only founded in 2000 is required to be given equal screen time to the male competition (I am not asking anyone's opinions here, but what the law thinks about this question). No? Well in that case what you said about the law doesn't hold.
    My argument still holds because 1. equal screen time is not a law, 2. female players are allowed in the NFL, 3. discrimination based on sex is illegal in the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitey View Post
    So..whats the point? Doesn't all sports have different leagues for men and women? and don't most E-sport competitions host male only events? (there are some for women)

    EDIT: You don't even post your opinion. You just copy paste the news article.

    Yes, all sports have different divisions for men and women, but why? Because of how we are physically built differently, this has NOTHING to do with physical fitness, nor does it have to do with any sort of physical contact. Don't get me wrong, I have no interest in this and it'll just spur up more feminist bullshit, but you have to admit it seems a little random and unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seya View Post
    i got used to it after the third day we played D3 together :P .
    haha atleast i treat you like i treat everyone ! :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked315 View Post
    feminist bullshit
    Feminism is not bullshit. It's shit emitted from the kawaiiest unicorns. OuO

    Anyone who does not identify with feminism is against feminism, and therefore, a bad person.

    Also, OuO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TuxedoSam View Post
    Feminism is not bullshit. It's shit emitted from the kawaiiest unicorns. OuO

    Anyone who does not identify with feminism is against feminism, and therefore, a bad person.

    Also, OuO.
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