Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: There is no shame in this F2P market - Cheapness sells and everyone is buying it.

  1. #1
    Marios's Mustache Wax Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Default There is no shame in this F2P market - Cheapness sells and everyone is buying it.

    Edit: Will re-edit later.

    In response to numerous mainstream journos and the lack of critique I am forwarding my own thesis on this matter.

    The conclusion of the conclusions is this,

    I am calling most F2P advocates as hypocrites and cheap ass gamers that pay for low quality MMOs or don't pay at all and then feel entitled about the "current state of MMOs".
    Now let us move on,

    Can you stop being cheap?

    Societies deserve to have what they have - you deserve the police you have, you deserve the government you have, you deserve the politicians you have. Same thing with games.

    Let us now have a closer look at the F2P market since it is the dominant force right now. The F2P supporters have always claimed that most people that play F2P are unemployed or low on income. That has been their thesis since the first day to draw more crowd away from the subscription model. "10-15 dollars a month is too much and most people given these circumstances cannot afford it", "You don't have to pay 10-15 dollars per month anymore to access the full game", "Forget subscription. It is dead" were positions widely accepted and commonly shared.

    Considering how attractive and profitable the F2P model has become, if their positions were true or bared any truth that mean that since most are not unable to pay a sub on that amount then that meant most would not be able to pay any money on a F2P MMO. If we follow now the chain on this logic and translate it to numbers and thus percentages, it would mean that a 10% percent of the market, the "whale culture" as the industry calls them, would be enough to fund each F2P MMO.

    However that whale culture would have to spend enough to cover monthly costs (all employees wages and payrolls, maintenance, technicians, cust**** support assistant, developers, servers, ect) which is not true. And it is not true because we do already know that every 1 out of 2 players gives a X amount of dollars per month and interesting enough (who would have thought eh?) that same player will definitely spend more money on a F2P game yearly than he would have spend on a subscription MMO.

    It is also a given fact that mainly in Europe and NA, F2P MMOrpgs have got extremely low population. "Dead servers", "Ghost towns", "Full of hackers, bots and goldsellers" is indeed not only a very common perception but it has started to become an expectation of the free-to-play industry. Regardless of that and taken into account the revenues of the F2P sphere of influence, it is a logical fallacy to believe that a few "whales" in all F2P MMOrpgs are not only millionaires and billionaires but the primarily force for covering every single's F2P MMOrpg daily, monthly and yearly costs and hence the multi-million/billion empire.

    As far as the demographics of this F2P playerbase, the information is simple and clear; the majority is not unemployed or on low income; the majority or alternatively "casuals" are usually family-oriented or workaholic individuals who do not have enough time to invest on a hardcore content driver MMO, and prefer to spend a few hours here and there on a standard F2P game.

    In addition, I personally do not know millions or billions of unemployed or low-on-income players who can afford to maintain a medium-gaming ring including hidden costs (electricity, ect) but not afford a 10-15 payment per month on a sub-MMO.

    So who the hell is this apparent vocal minority of not being able to afford a monthly sub?

    They are freeriders and freeloaders, the jumping-wagon crowd that jumps from one MMO to another MMO within the first month hence the massive exodus that is apparent these days; they are the so called "jumpers". As it stands, this vocal minority is nothing more than a plague of constant leeches who expect others to sacrifice their own income so they can play anything for free without ever giving a dime back. Until they leave and go to the next F2P game and repeat.

    More than usual you find this very verbal and vocal minority when a large amount legitimate paying cust****s or MMO veterans complain about the design of an apparently "Free to play" model which is 9 out of 10 not free, and more specifically freemium or Pay to win in hardcore gamers term. What is an irony though, is that these non-paying gamers always make an effort to stigmatize the paying gamers are "gamers that do not want to pay anything and expect everything for free and expect Developers to work for free".

    Next time you meet them ask them this question - "Why don't you start paying that much for once and support your beloved Developer that works extremely hard as well as its staff?" Since their position is that games are not free, then they should start putting money where their mouth is and in fact be the first ones to do so.

    F2P culture apart from the evidently ridiculous community of rude kids, full-mouth brats and teenagers, it has got also negative side effects to the MMO scene as a whole. And here I explain it clearly,

    Calling ALL Developers - Your games are Sub-par

    I have been playing MMOrpgs for 17 years now. I have invested in many time, effort, money, endless grind, top PVP or PVE player, hardcore or casual, Subscription/F2P/Freemium/B2P and you name it. I am a complete veteran of this genre.

    This year and the previous one has been the worst year for this genre. Definitely the worse because instead of having MMOs trying to compete with the big players on the market such as World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy: A realm reborn, WildStar, Destiny, Blade & Soul, Phantasy Star Online 2 and Star Citizen and Kingdom Under Fire II we have games trying to compete with who is the more niche and how fast they can gain revenue by exploiting that niche market.

    Let us have a look - Age of Wushu, Archlord 2, C9, Dragon Nest , Guild Wars 2, Firefall, Lord of the Rings, NeverWinter, Rift, Star Wars: The old republic, Swordsman Online, Tera Rising, The Secret World, Warframe and the list never drops. In fact, there are tons of F2P MMOrpgs and the problem is not that F2P exists as a business model, an alternative one to a subscription but the culture itself.

    Cheap or Free does not guarantee quality. Anything good needs cash or some type of a strong long run investment. Period.

    We all knew what would happen when Free 2 Play came around and mostly MMOers from the new age, were so passionate about the idea of FREE as if it meant FREEDOM and the whole mainstream press was embracing something in the same lines. What is ironical though is that the same press and new MMoers alike are steadily reaching the same conclusion - they are all reaching the same wall that old MMOers reached when the MMO market was stuck in the World of Warcraft era.

    "We are bored. We need more. We want more".

    And the consequences?

    Reverse engineering - Instead of progressing forward to a more complete and unified MMOrpg genre it has dissected that genre into snacks and bites with incomplete PVE & PVP and hidden content through paywalls and paypals. Every single Free 2 Play MMOrpg right now is incomplete and lacks usually basic tools such as a good group finder. Progression has been backwards and that is exactly why we have got so many with disgusting graphics, generic character customization, unpolished combat and animations and bad level designs and environments. In all fronts, from story to gameplay, the F2P market will make sure that there is always going to be a core expectation missing in order to build up hype for the next generation of gamers.

    Short life span - In every crisis or stale period, there are opportunities that whoever is the fastest and the smarter hits gold. Some MMOrpgs are good at doing that - filling up a hole through that particular period of stagnation; by taking advantage of the thirst of a niche MMO crowd such as the Lineage crowd with ArcheAge. Companies right now will not allow for complete MMOs to appear because there is no need to because the market is not at a good state nor competitive and there are way too many gaps.

    Pipe dream – Option is good but it is not always good; when the minority dominates the majority that is unhealthy by default. Once one good subscription MMOrpg fulfils the gap in the market, the rest will get wiped, studios will close downs, jobs will be lost and so on and so forth. And there are two huge gaps - making a more refined MMOrpg of the past and making a more refined MMOrpg of that specific theme. If right now someone released the closest thing to a Skyrim multiplayer, ESO Online would go bankrupt.

    Hideous purpose – F2P is all about money. Not just about money or some money. And the evidence comes from the very nature of the model ; you are just a free to play player from them; someone that plays their game for free; they do not have to listen to you, take your constructive criticism seriously; you have no authority or influence whatsoever; you are not entitled to anything. Pay2Win elements are often and if you dare to raise a voice you should not because you are not entitled to since you don’t pay money to the game. Hence you should be thankful to the “whales” to spend allot of money so you can play still play that game and still play it for free. And most importantly, regardless of how much money they make, they will never rival with the quality of a sub-based MMOrpg and it is pretty self-explanatory on why that is happening.

    No expectations – That is right. Since you do not pay for anything you cannot expect anything. Standards can be as low as possible, the game can be as average as possible, cust**** service can be as non-existent as possible, floods of bots, goldsellers, spammers and hackers can be as big as possible, technical mess with high lag and spikes can be as often as possible and servers can be as ghost towns as possible. As long as the “whales” spend more money, have a reason to, everything else is irrelevant.

    Forceful Adaptation – When you have no options because there is a lack of competition, you are forced to adapt. If you think Star Wars is the worst Star Wars, you will still play it because there is no other Star Wars to play. That creates a culture of taking breaks and painfully playing an MMO for the sake of being an MMO or due to boredom.

    This has been one of the most ludicrous (for the business), subpar (for the genre) and ridiculous state of gaming where manipulative products of P2W dominate. This is like Steam flooded with indie games to justify that PC gaming is doing good and it still has the most exclusive titles when in reality most of them are byproducts of easy, cheap and intentionally lazy development. And in that respect, MMOs have become moneycash grabbing scheme like a bad Kickstarter project.

    They will never attract millions of players because they don't deserve to attract millions of players. They are not that good and they do not want to be that good either. The intention of F2P MMOrpgs is not to make a great and complete MMOrpg experience but to cater to a niche and identify the whales which in turns become a money-grabbing marathon. That is why there is no loyalty from the playerbase. That is why they are not sub-based because they can never have many subs. There not again not that good and they can flood the market just like that.

    We need competition because competition drives quality.

    That is my argument and right now quality is secondary. Without competition, there are no standards, everything goes, there are no expectations. The culture behind F2P is a backward step.
    Short version - If you do not support models of business that respect cust****s and give you full access of the game, you know FULL game, instead of hiding it behind paypals and paywalls; unlike great business models such as the one in League of Legends and Guild Wars 2 or any other MMO where cash shop only sells cosmetics, stop *****ing and moaning about the state of MMOs because you are the exact reason about that state.

    No one else apart from you is responsible for this sub-par quantity and quality.

  2. #2
    Dixie Banana Bar Reputation: 30

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    283
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    ppl cannot fight corporations or goverment. both hawe way to much power and money. and most games, if they are not making money, the just close down, not reduce prices. although idiots that pays tons of money to them doesnt help

  3. #3
    Bongo Crazy Kong Reputation: 31
    Airsyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    246
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    Games have to make money. To compare the average mmo to juggernauts like League of Legends(which can do whatever it wants these days simply because of the sheer volume of players) or buy-to-play, AAA sequels like Guild Wars 2 is counter-intuitive to your argument.

    I find that most people who weigh in on F2P this heavily, don't actually play F2P games. They read stories or gather feedback from like-minded persons and form conclusions without ever logging in and playing said game for even a week. Dropping around 20-50 bucks in most F2P games (the standard price for a b2p) is enough to get all of the essentials like inventory space, etc. that would allow me to play the game forever. To expect to enjoy and be successful throughout an entire game while paying absolutely nothing is ridiculous.

    What it all comes down to is this. Good games will succeed. Bad games will not. Regardless of payment model. Getting stuck with a terrible publisher is another story though.
    Last edited by Airsyk; 07-28-2014 at 06:07 PM.

  4. #4
    OnRPG Elite Member! Reputation: 640
    Ronin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hitman Victor
    Posts
    6,309
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    But I don't want choice!

    Well, in that case you are an idiot.

    Bottom line:
    Team fortress 2 is not suddenly a bad shooter, just because it's not for sale.
    Being F2P or not doesn't have much to do with the quality of the game.

    Games are like movies; There is only one Apocalypse Now and there is only one Dark Souls, or one Deus Ex (and I am not talking modern here). I can tell you though, there are people who find The Bridge on the River Kwai boring. I could rewatch Black Hawk down 100s of times. Most people would think that's close to torture. The thing with MMOs is, you don't just need to be a blockbuster. You need to be good enough for people to play for 3 years or something.

    Everyone's issue is that they only have one favorite movie. Guess what; Some people enjoy movies with a plot and others just want Michael Bay. Yes you have to wait some years until a movie comes along that replaces your favorite as your new favorite. That's only you though.
    Telling everyone to stop making movies, because not every one of them immediately is your new "I am going to watch this every weekend for the next 3 years" choice, is kinda dumb. There are thousands of them being made and yes, they aren't worth watching, but still each one of them is liked by someone out there (and if it's only the directors mum).
    Movies aren't made with the idea of "this is going to be the best movie ever in history". That's a good thing. This is why indies are often so good, both for movies and for games. There are also really unique F2P games. You just need to find out what you like, not complain about the choices you have.
    Last edited by Ronin; 07-28-2014 at 10:04 PM.

    Stay frosty.

  5. #5
    Bladin's Sword Sharpener Reputation: 16

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,140
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    this post is so trolly i don't even know what to say. games are like with everything in life - if there is a market people will start a game/business - some will be better than others.

    do you really expect people to stop eating at mcdonalds when they realize that going to a fine dining restaurant has better quality food?

    some people won't admit it but mcdonalds is stupidly delicious in some situations

  6. #6
    Marios's Mustache Wax Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    17
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Hey look its the guy from Reddit and mmorpg.com that really hates Archeage

  7. #7
    Sandman's Slave Reputation: 80
    ASNZern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,815
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    ................ Way too much assumption in your 'thesis'.
    It's WNxPyrZern. Pleased to meet you. My 3D Character Artist Folio

  8. #8
    Still learning the ropes Reputation: 13

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    24
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Blaming consumers is counter-productive and not at all the true issue.

  9. #9
    Luigiís Pizza Reputation: 10
    PoorGamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    132
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Authority View Post
    Societies deserve to have what they have - you deserve the police you have, you deserve the government you have, you deserve the politicians you have. Same thing with games.


    Stopped reading there because if you believe this then I don't want to become enraged at how inaccurate that wall of text is.

  10. #10
    Game Journalist Reputation: 484

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6,708
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    I didn't read this, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of, "Vote with your wallet."
    "....However, as with all things, you will encounter the odd retard and or ******."
    -Cingal
    -------(New Video!)------------------------(New Post!)[4/12]----------(Updated for ArcheAge!)[4/28]
    Youtube Channel | Twitch | Gaming Blog | Amitabha Gaming Guild

  11. #11
    Norrin Radd's Nerd Rage Reputation: 22
    Leafninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Over the Hill and through the Woods
    Posts
    1,638
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Team fortress 2 is not suddenly a bad shooter, just because it's not for sale.
    Being F2P or not doesn't have much to do with the quality of the game.
    The community sure did go to shit as soon as it went F2P thus making it a bad game.

  12. #12
    OnRPG Elite Member! Reputation: 235
    Jermatoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6,229
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoorGamer View Post
    Stopped reading there because if you believe this then I don't want to become enraged at how inaccurate that wall of text is.
    Yeah, already a very poor idea to try to include politics into anything else non politics related. Not the brightest move.

    Quote Originally Posted by ApocaRUFF View Post
    I didn't read this, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of, "Vote with your wallet."
    You should be thankful, I wasted a few minutes to read this and the quote only be disappointed that there was no real evidence and it all sounds like just assumption after assumption.

  13. #13
    Marios's Mustache Wax Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermatoo View Post
    Yeah, already a very poor idea to try to include politics into anything else non politics related. Not the brightest move.

    You should be thankful, I wasted a few minutes to read this and the quote only be disappointed that there was no real evidence and it all sounds like just assumption after assumption.
    Google is your friend. Superdata is your friend. You would know if you were an MMO veteran and not a random poster.

    Nothing to do with politics. You get what you pay for. And 99.99 percent of F2P MMOs are shit. If you are blind it is not my issue but for the sake of it, why don't you compare a typical F2P MMOrpg and a typical sub-MMOrpg. You know graphics, combat animation, voice acting, ect.

    Your post is baseless and as clueless as your knowledge of this genre.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PoorGamer View Post
    Stopped reading there because if you believe this then I don't want to become enraged at how inaccurate that wall of text is.
    I am a capitalist in a capitalist environment. That is how the world works. You get what you pay. So if you want cheap shit you will get cheap shit.

    And what exactly is inaccurate? Majority dictates the market.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shenraiz View Post
    Blaming consumers is counter-productive and not at all the true issue.
    Consumers support a market. If they didn't want that market they wouldn't have supported it. It is basic logic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chakraflare View Post
    this post is so trolly i don't even know what to say. games are like with everything in life - if there is a market people will start a game/business - some will be better than others.

    do you really expect people to stop eating at mcdonalds when they realize that going to a fine dining restaurant has better quality food?

    some people won't admit it but mcdonalds is stupidly delicious in some situations
    Do you see society flooded with Mcdonalds to the point where better food is rare? I don't so your analogy has no weight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ASNZern View Post
    ................ Way too much assumption in your 'thesis'.
    A thesis is a stance not an assumption.

    If you wanted a good Star Wars MMO you wouldn't support SWTOR.
    If you wanted a good Guild Wars you wouldn't support GW2.
    If you wanted Skyrim with multiplayer you woudn't support ESO.

    and the list goes on.

  14. #14
    Manic's Maniacal Machine Reputation: 102
    DarkLight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,917
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Your right there is no shame in F2P market. Its the greatest.
    The issue isn't F2P, its the person who thinks they have a voice & just stomps on a title that's working.

  15. #15
    Dixie Banana Bar Reputation: 19
    windrider07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    296
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Whether or not a game is good is completely subjective. The biggest challenge is the developers. You either develop a great game without shit about getting paid a high salary or you develop a semi-great game because you aren't getting paid enough. Passion for creating an awesome vs getting paid. Those are the two things that fuels a game. You're either fueled by money or passion. I have to admit...yes, there are many p2p games that puts majority of f2p games to shame but I CHOOSE to play f2p games. I choose to accept a good f2p game. Do I deserve it? Who gives a damn? Why would I ask someone if they deserve to play a great game? If they enjoy the game they are playing, then cool.

    In my opinion, it all comes down to the players and the business model. I've seen quiet a few games with shitty graphics that did really well over the years. The game will either be ruined by a crappy business model or there will be players who troll the game and make the entire community not a good place to live in. Though players who troll are easy to manage. So I have to narrow it down to business model. Will I ever buy a p2p game? When I have the money to afford my own office, comfy swivel chair, desk, gaming desktop complete with mouse and headset and everything with it, and the time to enjoy it, then yes. But until then, i'm gonna budget and enjoy f2p games. F2p games are actually pretty good. Most of the time, the developer sucks and it will make it hard for the publishers to make the game look good. When that happens, its up to the player if they still want to play the game. Some actually do because they stay for the community.

  16. #16
    Sandman's Slave Reputation: 80
    ASNZern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,815
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Then your thesis lacks stance. You only have assumption.
    It's WNxPyrZern. Pleased to meet you. My 3D Character Artist Folio

  17. #17
    Luigiís Pizza Reputation: 10
    PoorGamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    132
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Authority View Post
    Do you see society flooded with Mcdonalds to the point where better food is rare? I don't so your analogy has no weight.
    Hey you're just arguing for the sake of arguing I can do that too!!




    In reality almost all pre-made or packaged foods have at least one form of mild poison in them and most crops are GMOs which in large amounts over time can wreck your body.

    It's like you don't even America.

  18. #18
    Marios's Mustache Wax Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fascism View Post
    Hey look its the guy from Reddit and mmorpg.com that really hates Archeage
    Your nick is fascism.
    You don't even know what fascism is.
    You are not even a fascist.
    You can't even spell it without googling it.
    You don't even know history.

    So why you even posting since you are just another persona?

    And by the way,
    how is ArcheAge the ultimate sandbox with no tricks, no traps, no trials with a sub as an option going?


    And learn to differentiate between a critique towards the business model and "love/hate". I know I am asking allot.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •