Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: New MMORPGs crashing and burning

  1. #1
    Link's a Hippie! Reputation: 15
    Skyrax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    698
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    The MMO audience has grown really large due to FFXI and WoW's popularity.

    When I think of old MMO's I see a lot of variety ex: Maplestory, Fairyland, Monster, Pristontale, Ragnarok, Shadowbane. If you look at those you can tell they have big fundamental differences. I think that now that the MMO audience has grown alot due to ffxi/wow etc, a lot of companies are coming into the market for money. A lot of these companies are blinded by the popular MMOs and end up creating half-assed MMOs with your modern typical 1-2-3-4-5 skills etc. They don't create anything special, because they are "copying". A copy will never have potential because it doesn't have it's own identity to become a full-fleshed game that feels complete and strong. I think this is why a lot of MMOs end up badly.

    However, there are still a lot of other interesting MMOs coming out and succeeding. I am waiting for the day where there will be a new MMO concept that will blow my mind.

    What coldReactive said is probably more true than what I did though.

  2. #2
    Roon's Rogue Reputation: 117
    coldReactive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    4,291
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Indeed, some Developers are going to try the Sandbox approach, such as EverQuest Next. Regardless if EQN has PVP or not, I'm going to try it for that reason. (Plus, EQ2 is getting pretty Dated.) From what they showed of combat in EQN: Landmark, it's going to be a bit more action than traditional tab-target and Macros.

    Only plays Magic DPS Classes, Healers and Machinist/Engineers.
    Playing MMO: FFXIV (Balmung)
    Waiting On: FFXV, KH3, Tree of Savior, RE:FFVII · Saving For: New Computer

  3. #3
    Marios's Mustache Wax Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    In my opinion copying some aspect are good, but if you take the good from the games that keep people online, for me that was perfect world's territory war, that was an amazing event, it had tactics, it involved a guild, it inspired lower levels to get up to the big leagues, small guilds to rise up. People need to look at what keeps players on these mmorpgs and try to implement that, combat of TERA, Territory war of PW, crafting of skyrim, instances like PW and tera(they were challenging and the rewards are fair for the amount of effort put in), some quest variance (not all kill x amount and return). i knwo this maybe impossible to find, hence why i am starting to learn programming and game development from scratch to maybe one day i can make such a game.

  4. #4
    Link's a Hippie! Reputation: 15
    Skyrax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    698
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think my post was good. If you take a look at WoW, it copied a lot of things and became a really good well rounded game. I guess it's more like game developers aren't taking time to observe those other details that you're talking about and devote to making a real good game.

  5. #5
    Super Duper Uber Mega Ultra Extreme Reputation: 26
    GenoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    867
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Taking aspect of different mmorpg is a pretty flaw thing to do. It'll end up like those mmo's that just simply present a bunch of feature but the game isn't all that refreshing. All the legend (using legend because they were once immensely popular) games had their own twist to them. Which I believe is one of the reason that lead some of those game to being success. Most major failures are indeed letting marketing department run the game instead.

  6. #6
    Heads or Tails Reputation: 30
    Aktillum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    334
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Games have been copying eachother with small differences since, well, the dawn of video games. Wolfenstein/Doom. Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat. Super Mario/Crash Bandicoot. Quake/Unreal Tournament. For a long time, people were okay with this.

    I can't quite put my finger on why MMOs are different in the sense that people expect truly innovative titles. I'm not defending MMOs, I hate the WoW-style grind and themepark MMOs, I just can't understand what sets MMOs apart from single-player / console games in the sense that MMOs are expected to be more innovative.

    I mean I sort of understand, like the FPS crowd. Some prefer Call of Duty despite the fact each sequel is identical to the last. Some prefer Battlefield because of the huge, open maps and vehicles and more realistic gameplay style. But they're both FPS games at the core.

    I think MMOs won't be really innovative until they're like...so sandboxy yet realistic at the same time, we're just simulating real life without the consequences of death. Hard to explain what I'm trying to say. Something like Grand Theft Auto meets Minecraft.

  7. #7
    SuperKenshin's Servent Reputation: 31
    Luppi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,046
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    MMORPGs need to die for a few years so they can be reborn for the "no life" crowd again. Making an mmo too accessible takes the time sinks out, which in turn lowers your population thanks to everyone beating the end game in 2 months.

  8. #8
    Sandman's Slave Reputation: 80
    ASNZern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,815
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    The difference between WoW, and most other clones, is that.....

    Duh duh duhhh !!
    WoW copies from multiple games, and so WoW is better than all of those games.
    WoW Clones, on the other hand, are cheap copy of WoW itself. And so each of those clone is less than a half of a WoW. And that's why they bite the dust.

    There's nothing wrong with copying. We have awesome FPS, and RPG, and RTS from copying. But the success ones are the ones that become better from copying.
    It's WNxPyrZern. Pleased to meet you. My 3D Character Artist Folio

  9. #9
    Spyro’s Burning Cough Reputation: 43

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    533
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Problem to me seems to be, that it has to focus on end game raids or nothing else. They tend to refuse to do much else or they do it in a way to not make enough of a focus on more interesting ways. Then it's not even just that-
    Take FFXI -FFXIV, there's a massive difference between the two and FFXI to Pre-Abyssea, Point i'm getting at using FFXI is that no one really supported it much before. Just really sucks ass, that was one of the few MMOs that was very group based to group up(and felt like an actual mmo), many ways to fix it but they took the easy way out. FFXIV felt alot like that, while XI was immersive, XIV not so much, there was boats/airships you had to wait for then wait on, nothing was instants till the Warps in XI, but even before that there was fishing on boats where you pull up mobs and have to fight them, and also encounters with pirates at times at times.
    Everything has become lets get there faster and not enjoy the game, it's become endgame and not enjoying the path to the end for loot, then just straight to end game.

  10. #10
    Marios's Mustache Wax Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silent420 View Post
    Problem to me seems to be, that it has to focus on end game raids or nothing else. They tend to refuse to do much else or they do it in a way to not make enough of a focus on more interesting ways. Then it's not even just that-
    Take FFXI -FFXIV, there's a massive difference between the two and FFXI to Pre-Abyssea, Point i'm getting at using FFXI is that no one really supported it much before. Just really sucks ass, that was one of the few MMOs that was very group based to group up(and felt like an actual mmo), many ways to fix it but they took the easy way out. FFXIV felt alot like that, while XI was immersive, XIV not so much, there was boats/airships you had to wait for then wait on, nothing was instants till the Warps in XI, but even before that there was fishing on boats where you pull up mobs and have to fight them, and also encounters with pirates at times at times.
    Everything has become lets get there faster and not enjoy the game, it's become endgame and not enjoying the path to the end for loot, then just straight to end game.
    This reminds me of a tips someone told me to enjoy skyrim better, dont fast travel. Companies aren't thinking of the next big thing because they dont go to a source where people have random ideas, they dont want to bank on something new because they have no idea how the audience will react to it making a less safe investment. MMORPG must have end game yes, but the issue people make with all in my opinion, is having the game revolve around that, level 1-79 no challenge, then at level 80 you farm or buy your end game gears and then do what?, there is no content for the lower levels, just stuff to get you to max level as fast as possible, anyone here ever played PW before hyper stones and oracles? it would take months to hit 100 with the level cap being 105, level 89 was an accomplishment, but games i see now, 1 week MAX, not even no life-ing it you can reach max level, there is nothing to obtain at lower levels, which is why i stand firm against giving Armour and weapons in instances, it feels like i am just being given everything on a silver platter, not really working for it especially when the drops rates are so easy, so all in all, it's just companies making cookie cutter mmorpgs that are easy to get to level cap so you can spend money on end game gears.

  11. #11
    Link's a Hippie! Reputation: 143
    yuniuninuniun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    680
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Velgus View Post
    kinda like what's going on with music.....
    except nobody buys music
    My feet hurt and I'm having trouble peeing.

  12. #12
    Chrono's Crony Reputation: 61
    SorenEmblem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,360
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Velgus View Post
    kinda like what's going on with music.....
    Or any form of media. So long as there's a demand for bad games/music/movies/TV shows, there will be more bad games/music/movies/TV shows.

    The MMORPG genre is a fairly young genre, and it didn't really hit its popularity spike until the mid-late 2000's with WoW. Whenever a new genre gets a sudden spike in popularity, other companies will always try to hop on the bandwagon to make a quick buck. It's happened with other genres before; when the FPS genre reached the peak of its popularity during the Halo/CoD craze, I lost count of the amount of quick cash-in CoD clones that were being released. Similarly, in the 90's when the JRPG genre was at the peak of its popularity, everyone was trying to copy Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest in an effort to achieve the same success. As a younger genre, MMORPG's are going through a similar phase where everyone is trying to mimic the success of the popular titles in the genre in an effort to make easy money. Thus, the genre is becoming oversaturated, which will probably lead to a pseudo-crash in the MMO market before its popularity as a genre kind of levels out.

    Take FFXI -FFXIV, there's a massive difference between the two and FFXI to Pre-Abyssea, Point i'm getting at using FFXI is that no one really supported it much before. Just really sucks ass, that was one of the few MMOs that was very group based to group up(and felt like an actual mmo), many ways to fix it but they took the easy way out. FFXIV felt alot like that, while XI was immersive, XIV not so much, there was boats/airships you had to wait for then wait on, nothing was instants till the Warps in XI,
    Yes because everybody loves arbitrary wait times in their games /s


    Currently playing: FFXIV (Elucifer Arclight, Leviathan server), LoL (Trash Tier Waifu, NA server), SMITE (Zacewing)

  13. #13
    Link's a Hippie! Reputation: 143
    yuniuninuniun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    680
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SorenEmblem View Post
    Yes because everybody loves arbitrary wait times in their games /s
    Well boats for transportation were crazy fun in Maplestory. So long as they aren't just boats and have some sort of interaction on board then they're great.
    But without them you lose the feel of the connected world, and even walking to get to new places feels like a chore. It kind of just makes the player base lazier.
    My feet hurt and I'm having trouble peeing.

  14. #14
    Dante’s Inferno Reputation: 31
    Cripstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    In my room, MA
    Posts
    600
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silent420 View Post
    Point i'm getting at using FFXI is that no one really supported it much before. Just really sucks ass, that was one of the few MMOs that was very group based to group up(and felt like an actual mmo), many ways to fix it but they took the easy way out.
    Abyssea is what made me stop playing FFXI. Miss the old FFXI, maybe they'll release a Pre-Abyssea server someday, I'd resub for it.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daeoc
    Discord: Daeoc#4266
    Add me if ya want.

  15. #15
    Super Duper Uber Mega Ultra Extreme Reputation: 26
    GenoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    867
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SorenEmblem View Post
    younger genre, MMORPG's
    You know I just realize in the mmorpg game scene, we're all becoming too fast pace. It have been about 20 years (possibly less) since the internet boom. Yet at the same time everything's becoming saturated in the MMORPG scene.

  16. #16
    General Manager Reputation: 578
    DizzyPW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    5,865
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    The issue is MMORPGs these days are primarily born from investors bedazzled by WoW's success and seeking to find similar returns for their money by repeating said success. This requires appealing to a large enough playerbase to find those dollars. Doing so requires tremendous development and testing costs as well as a hefty amount of financial upkeep even after launch.

    Back in the early days of MMORPGs, a good number of them were run by a team that wanted to build a game they would play as a driving goal, and then if they made enough money to do it for a living, it was a huge plus. As such each game catered to different tastes and didn't overlap each other in features as heavily as MMORPGs do today.

    After the incredibly rocky last couple years in the industry, big money is going to find more profitable ventures for their investments. This means a vacuum is opening that will allow the indie devs room to breath and expand. When games are designed and monetized around the concept of only needing 50,000 players instead of 500,000 players to fund continued growth and profits, the games are far more likely to succeed and all the while can focus on maintaining the requests of their focused niche playerbase rather than appeasing a random mass of disjointed requests.
    I’d rather risk confusing some people than disappointing them. - Mark Jacobs

    You would know where you're going if you didn't skip the cutscenes, a$$hole! - Ragachak

    Follow my writing team at OnRPG.

    Currently Playing: SMITE, Skyrim Remastered (and uber modded), Senran Kagura Estival Versus
    History: Shadowverse, Battleborn, Herowarz, Pokemon Go, Stardew Valley, Blade & Soul, Elsword, Dragon Ball Xenoverse FFXIV, Lost Saga, Prime World, Path of Exile, League of Legends, Wizardry Online, The Secret World, TERA, Planetside 2, C9, Dragon Nest, Forsaken World, Dungeon Defenders, Realm of the Titans, Eden Eternal, Vindictus, Champions Online, PockieNinja, Black Prophecy, Warhammer, Perfect World, Maplestory, Guild Wars, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok.

    Support Pancreatic Cancer Research


  17. #17
    Heads or Tails Reputation: 30
    Aktillum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    334
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DizzyPW View Post

    Back in the early days of MMORPGs, a good number of them were run by a team that wanted to build a game they would play as a driving goal, and then if they made enough money to do it for a living, it was a huge plus. As such each game catered to different tastes and didn't overlap each other in features as heavily as MMORPGs do today.
    So true, especially waay early games like MUDs and Ultima Online. Devs actually played their games and even interacted with the community. These days its just sales-point driven corporate cash-grabs, and even if the devs want to do something cool or innovative, they've got the investors going "no, stick to what sells".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •