The Person You Are...

I heard this on Across the Universe, and found it pretty interesting.

(poll, 1 sec)

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Originally Posted by Oisterboy

I heard this on Across the Universe, and found it pretty interesting.

(poll, 1 sec)

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arent those the same questions? only asked in another way?

w8 ignore that, i just thought about it, i went for the first, though now id rather switch it to the second

I don't think it's because of the things I do that I have a personality...

I think I do things because of my personality...

(do you avoid working because you are lazy or you are lazy because you avoid working, when you look at it simply both means the same thing, but when you think, determine the order of things and why you do these actions, the second answer "What you do is defined by who you are." seem to be more correct)

Another example, you may save someone because you're kind, but it's only the other people's opinion about you that will change once that happen, your personality itself won't change because you saved someone unless it was in some f*cked up setting in which case it would be a trauma...

Anyway this is a rather phylosophical question and it's pretty hard for me to explain what I'm trying to say because well... english is not my first language and that's all pretty complex stuff... the best I could do was to give you those example to try and understand by yourself xD

I am for the first one, without a doubt.

I don't let my actions determine who I am.

I let who I am determine my actions.

Lols. This is how I felt when I heard it in the movie.

I knew you guys would have fun with it as soon as I heard it XD

I always figured who I was defined what I do/did.

:hmm:

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Originally Posted by Oisterboy

Lols. This is how I felt when I heard it in the movie.

I knew you guys would have fun with it as soon as I heard it XD

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We are not having fun with it. -_-

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Originally Posted by Paladin Catling

We are not having fun with it. -_-

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Maybe you're not.

I'm having fun loling at everyones confusion.

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Originally Posted by Oisterboy

Maybe you're not.

I'm having fun loling at everyones confusion.

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Its not confusing I had decided upon my answer quite easily.

*smacks Oister*

>:(

Neither one.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

Neither one.

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Don't leave us hanging like that, man.

C'mon, tell us what you think.

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Originally Posted by Xenonight2

Don't leave us hanging like that, man.

C'mon, tell us what you think.

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Generalization are based on an information deficit.

I don't make decisions based on the principle of deficit-counter efforts, I gamble.

That means I rationalize problems or act randomly (often for environmental reasons I act contrary to my personal inclinations). With this systematic approach, the "personality aspect" falls out of the equitation.

As an illustration:
Body language does not lie.
It has really nothing to do with personality either, because it's a the same for all people, necessarily as a form of communication.

The emotions do not really tunnel through, they are internal aspects of our life, because the information of our personal state is not relevant to the acts and decisions of others.
That's why we are not communicating them well.

Anger, fear, etc. are not really important at all, they just are safety belts against us falling down from heights, etc.
They are also not in any way as individual as people think, because they serve the same purpose for everyone.

What mainly defines my acting are 2 things:
My capability to evaluate chances out of comparison to equal events
External influences, to which I count for example the weather as well as emotions, that effect me before I am able to judge them.

The first one is about abstract categories, so it's not individual aside from the individual set of equal events and estimates that form perception.
The second one is not an influence that I try to enhance but to decrease and also avoid.

The 2 options of the poll are influences of this kind.

Went with the 2nd one.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

Generalization are based on an information deficit.

I don't make decisions based on the principle of deficit-counter efforts, I gamble.

That means I rationalize problems or act randomly (often for environmental reasons I act contrary to my personal inclinations). With this systematic approach, the "personality aspect" falls out of the equitation.

As an illustration:
Body language does not lie.
It has really nothing to do with personality either, because it's a the same for all people, necessarily as a form of communication.

The emotions do not really tunnel through, they are internal aspects of our life, because the information of our personal state is not relevant to the acts and decisions of others.
That's why we are not communicating them well.

Anger, fear, etc. are not really important at all, they just are safety belts against us falling down from heights, etc.
They are also not in any way as individual as people think, because they serve the same purpose for everyone.

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*clap* *clap* *clap*

Bravo Ronin bravo!

XD

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Originally Posted by Attila

That is true, however you could argue that someone killing serial killers instead of imprisoning them is bad because his actions are bad, while he really is on a mission to purge the world of evil. His actions make his evil, while his personality is good.

It differs from person to person and how they view the world, but I have to agree that the first statement comes first.

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And that is why good and evil are flawed concepts.

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Originally Posted by Bacn

And that is why good and evil are flawed concepts.

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Ah that has nothing to do with it. Replace good with right and evil with wrong. Same thing.

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Originally Posted by Attila

Ah that has nothing to do with it. Replace good with right and evil with wrong. Same thing.

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Right and wrong are also flawed concepts in a philosophical context.


But all of this is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Sorry for sidetracking.

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Originally Posted by `doll

Who you are is defined by what you do.
For me, this isn't true. There are so many things I DON'T do but that doesn't mean I am this boring person with no substance based on the very little that I do in life. If you just read my actions, not my thoughts, my reasoning, my worries, you would really NOT know who I am.

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I think your first point is half true. You left out the fact that many of our actions (or lack of), are based on many other factors as well, such as your environment, your personality, your state of mind, etc all at that point of time. So just because you did, or didn't do something at a certain point, doesn't define a part of your personality, because it could just be due to other factors.

For example, if a child was born intellectually gifted, but had never been properly developed or educated, does that mean he was never intelligent? Then again, the child also grows up and his body changes. Maybe when he's an adult his intellect is just average compared to other people. So if we're going by that argument, we're associating a person's 'being' to a point of time.

So all this...... means we can't try to define things so simply in 2 contrasting sentences like that?

Am I right? XD

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Originally Posted by Raiyne

I think your first point is half true. You left out the fact that many of our actions (or lack of), are based on many other factors as well, such as your environment, your personality, your state of mind, etc all at that point of time. So just because you did, or didn't do something at a certain point, doesn't define a part of your personality, because it could just be due to other factors.

For example, if a child was born intellectually gifted, but had never been properly developed or educated, does that mean he was never intelligent? Then again, the child also grows up and his body changes. Maybe when he's an adult his intellect is just average compared to other people. So if we're going by that argument, we're associating a person's 'being' to a point of time.

So all this...... means we can't try to define things so simply in 2 contrasting sentences like that?

Am I right? XD

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Oh yeah I am sure there are examples like other things influencing what we do which do not necessarily show who we are. But that's almost like having to ask are we defined by our environments or situations we're place in then if our environments define actions, do both the environment and actions really define us?

It certainly goes into even more and more deep shit to think about. Dx

It's what we know we aren't, that makes us who we are.

whoooa

im a person who cannot be defined

I think its a mix of both. So I can't vote.

I definately only picked the first one cause it made more sense to me without thinking, but after reading every post and really thinking about it, it would have to be the second one. Though both could be true depending on person to person, but im sure the question is aimed at each individual right?

Meh new opinion!

It's what you believe that defines who you are.
I mean you can do anything but those things might not define you.
I suppose defining yourself is up to you. Don't let others judge you by your actions.
Making mistakes doesn't mean you are a failure, and doing amazing things doesn't exactly mean you are selfless. Most people only see what they wanna see. :3 Then they base their opinions of you on that.

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Originally Posted by Groteske

Meh new opinion!

It's what you believe that defines who you are.
I mean you can do anything but those things might not define you.
I suppose defining yourself is up to you. Don't let others judge you by your actions.
Making mistakes doesn't mean you are a failure, and doing amazing things doesn't exactly mean you are selfless. Most people only see what they wanna see. :3 Then they base their opinions of you on that.

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Well this is pretty much what the 1st one is saying. That you are what you do.
So I chose the second. D:

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Originally Posted by Groteske

Meh new opinion!

It's what you believe that defines who you are.
I mean you can do anything but those things might not define you.
I suppose defining yourself is up to you. Don't let others judge you by your actions.
Making mistakes doesn't mean you are a failure, and doing amazing things doesn't exactly mean you are selfless. Most people only see what they wanna see. :3 Then they base their opinions of you on that.

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I mostly agree with your post.. although I believe that defining yourself is not entirely up to oneself... I mean, some people define themselves by their friends and their surroundings. What people judge you as is part of your definition.

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Originally Posted by `doll

Well this is pretty much what the 1st one is saying. That you are what you do.
So I chose the second. D:

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Eh yes but who is saying that's what you are? XD

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Originally Posted by Groteske

Eh yes but who is saying that's what you are? XD

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People who chose the first one are saying that's what you are. o_0 LOL.

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Originally Posted by Jammart

I mostly agree with your post.. although I believe that defining yourself is not entirely up to oneself... I mean, some people define themselves by their friends and their surroundings. What people judge you as is part of your definition.

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Well yeah your life can help define who you are but still it's only you yourself that can define you. If your life is bad then change it, if your doing bad things...then stop. You can move to different places and some friends wont last forever.......so some definitions of you will change...but your self definition is still most important.

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Originally Posted by `doll

People who chose the first one are saying that's what you are. o_0 LOL.

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Well that doesn't mean they are right. :3

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Originally Posted by Raiyne

So isn't it like a continuous loop / paradox or something? Kinda like the chicken and the egg.

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This^^ pretty much

If you go down the path of your initial action and any other after is already predetermined, do "we" change? or are we already predetermined to change?

I'd go with Who you are is defined by what you do. in regard to how people see "you"

"You" in the scheme of things, I would go with What you do is defined by who you are..

I think I have freewill but is that because I'm predetermined to think that?

Same could be said for how people see "you".

Maybe it's just a domino effect e.g Who you are, determines your actions, determining who you are.

And round we go. Did I write this post or did the sum of me or something else determine that I would write this post hmmm.

I think the first one although this is one of those weird questions so meh.

my god that is a trippy movie high..

I chose "What you do is defined by who you are." If your good person it will show through your actions, if your bad it will show through your actions or lack of action.