America is doomed!

Who cares world was doomed when human was created ...

lemme know when you got news...

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Originally Posted by Satio

This thread makes as much sense as those conspiracy theories..

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LOL! I love you for that comment. <3

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Originally Posted by I.D.

Well he might of stated it poorly but it is true.

The whole political system is a sham and the government is playing you.
It's a game they set up where the rich always win.

There should be another economic crash soon and eventually the people will revolt once they cannot watch tv anymore and don't have enough money for entertainment to drown everything else out.

Literally the only thing that will fix the problem we are now in is to overthrow the current government system.
Then set in place many laws to restrict Corporations from being able to influence the government.
Create a new system that does not rely on huge sums of money to run for president or any seat in office.
Remove the ability for corporations to bribe politicians with a high seat job in their company after they leave office.
Add a law that states that politicians cannot add things in a bill that has nothing to do with the name/topic.
Enforce strict regulations on banks.
Do not allow companies to have internal investigations for major issues.

There are many other things that will need to be changed but the first thing is taking away power from the corporations to influence the government.



You know things are getting worse when;

The rich get heavier tax breaks than ever before.
The rich increasing their wealth dramatically over the last three decades while the middle class make less or the same.
The rich get a holiday tax of only 5%
Wall Street is making record profits.
Corporations get away with billions in conned/stolen money and only get a slap on the wrist.
The US military will move it's deadline to move out of Afghanistan from 2014 to 2024.
They also will keep a large number of troops in Iraq.



Everything is getting worse and Obama is just another Bush.


What happens when;
You give the rich massive tax cuts.
Corporations continue to move their jobs over to foreign countries.
Military spending goes up.
Medicare and Social Security is cut.
Property and other taxes are increased.
Education is cut.
Tuition fees dramatically increase.
Unemployment gets worse.
Debt is increased.
US Dollar is devalued more.


I can tell you eventually people will revolt.
When you have a lot of people with nothing to do, nothing to lose and a bunch of anger then it is going to happen.


Of course even if we did everything I said to try to fix the current government system it would only last for a few generations until people start to completely ignore what goes on.
That is when politicians will once again slowly water down laws and regulations until it's right back to where we are now.

Rinse and repeat.



It is impossible to fix this country using the current government system.

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Dude, wth.

Wallstreet makes record profits?
Can you show me that world you live in?


@Debt is increased.
US Dollar is devalued more.

Wtf are you on about? Those are 2 things that are indirectly proportional. You can't name both as bad, if you do, the only option that is left is that there should be no change at all which means that the current situation is optimal.

This is so sad and actually represents all that is wrong with the economy worldwide.

Entirely clueless People jumping on ******ed hype trains.

Ofc, the average US dude doesn't get that the only thing that rich/poor taxing means is that this is a strategy of taxing labor higher than capital.
That is only a tactic. In the end it's irrelevant towards labor-productivity where you tax and thus to buying power.
What do you want? High flexibility in capital or high flexibility in labor?

Who the heck wants high capital tax?

I don't own stocks, what should I do? HOW DO I PREPARE?

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Originally Posted by Ronin

@Debt is increased.
US Dollar is devalued more.

Wtf are you on about? Those are 2 things that are indirectly proportional. You can't name both as bad, if you do, the only option that is left is that there should be no change at all which means that the current situation is optimal.

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Point ^ He has one. Infact, many, but well...

If you have a 6 american dollar debt and 6 american dollars are worth 6 canadian dollars, then you have a 6 canadian dollars debt.

If you you have a 10 american dollars debt and 10 american dollars are worth 6 canadian dollars, then you still have a 6 canadian dollars debt.

I really wonder what happens with the money invested in stocks in your opinion...

ALL of it is spent. The shareholders will look out for that.

If people wanted their money in a bank, making the interest a bank gives, that won't pay extra fees for getting a stock of a company that parks their money in a bank account.

@keeping jobs in the US
All you keep with that are jobs you don't want.
Every dollar sent to China is a dollar that China will eventually have to spend to buy US product. There is no other way of using that dollar without letting it slowly loose it's value.

For every Chinese employee put on a dollar salary by the US, there will be an US citizen paid the amount of that salary too.

@problem:
The problem is that Bush killed off the production companies who only employ 60-250 people and caused a rise in unemployment and significantly hurt productivity, while taking up massive debt. The engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan where run on such a tight budget, that both campaigns nearly failed. They made no significant impact.

@yacht:
You know what one of those costs, right?
I could also say the mansion, or the car, or the toothbrush, or w/e.
Either the money is in the bank -> bank invests it or loans -> money is used for producing value
or the money is in investment papers -> company uses that capital -> money is used for producing value
or the money is in capital owned -> the company owned uses that capital -> money is used for producing value
or it's spent -> company produces something of value and gives it to the spender

If you take a dollar a "rich guy" wanted to spend and give it to the gov, the gov will tell you it just created money for you out of nothing and that it can for that reason spend it on w/e it deems funny.
What you (and hundreds of other folks) actually did is hand the gov a dollar that would have been in your bank account. That's the salary rise your boss never did give you, because there isn't enough money there, as the management says. Now fortunately it gets spent better, like on some Hurricane warning system that never gets a maintenance staff with it and probably works or doesn't, to secure the major of "whogives" his next election. Also the nicest teacher of the high school there got a pink badge.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

I really wonder what happens with the money invested in stocks in your opinion...

ALL of it is spent. The shareholders will look out for that.

If people wanted their money in a bank, making the interest a bank gives, that won't pay extra fees for getting a stock of a company that parks their money in a bank account.

@keeping jobs in the US
All you keep with that are jobs you don't want.
Every dollar sent to China is a dollar that China will eventually have to spend to buy US product. There is no other way of using that dollar without letting it slowly loose it's value.

For every Chinese employee put on a dollar salary by the US, there will be an US citizen paid the amount of that salary too.

@problem:
The problem is that Bush killed off the production companies who only employ 60-250 people and caused a rise in unemployment and significantly hurt productivity, while taking up massive debt. The engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan where run on such a tight budget, that both campaigns nearly failed. They made no significant impact.

@yacht:
You know what one of those costs, right?

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It doesn't matter how much a yacht costs when it is a penny to those top 1 to 2%.


Do you know how ridiculously rich they are?
Increasing their wealth by more than all the accountable money in past history in just the last few decades is quite a feat.
And yet a lot of those people are making their money just by moving large sums of money around.
They aren't using it for producing anything.

The middle class is the driving force for consumerism.

And unless we decrease unemployment in the US then things won't get better.
Outsourcing jobs will not help that.

And it is important to have jobs that can be filled.
Or provide a better way to attain the requirements for such jobs.
It's a problem when a large portion of the population is not educated enough to fill such positions.

There are a lot of smaller problems that need to be fixed like a revamping of the education system to deal with such an issue.

BTW how will that dollar come from China buying a US product when America hardly produces much anymore beyond our variety of fruits,vegetable, crops etc.
We have switched over to being mostly service based and even that is getting outsourced to places like India.
Or they bring people over from other countries to work here and those people send that money back to their country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronin

If you take a dollar a "rich guy" wanted to spend and give it to the gov, the gov will tell you it just created money for you out of nothing and that it can for that reason spend it on w/e it deems funny.
What you (and hundreds of other folks) actually did is hand the gov a dollar that would have been in your bank account. That's the salary rise your boss never did give you, because there isn't enough money there, as the management says. Now fortunately it gets spent better, like on some Hurricane warning system that never gets a maintenance staff with it and probably works or doesn't, to secure the major of "whogives" his next election. Also the nicest teacher of the high school there got a pink badge.

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Well part of the problem is the Rich are not even coming close to paying their fair share in taxes.
They get away with conning millions and billions from people and get a slap on the wrist.
They don't take responsibility for their actions at all.
They get to internally investigate themselves for crimes that are not just internal.
They receive subsidiaries and can pay very low taxes.



I wish I got that treatment.
I wish I could pay 21% or even as low as 5% in taxes.
I wish I could get away with stealing money.
I wish I could investigate myself because I would never be guilty or I could Just lay the responsibility on some nobody to take the blame.



Also the way the government manages that money is horrible.
A lot of those bills passed for recovery funds actually have those funds spent elsewhere.
Politicians will argue and try to fill the needs of their corporate backing until the bill is watered down so much that it doesn't even have much to do with the original motive.

You can easily find many complaints of people who actually read these bills and know what they mean.

Politicians get away with this because they give the bill a nice name like helping poor children but in actuality they watered it down to have nothing to do with that and if any politician votes against the bill they will slander those people saying they are against helping poor children.
The general population doesn't read the bills beyond the footnotes and will gobble up whatever they say.

I think you didn't quite catch me there:

If you transfer $ currency to china, china can't spend that in china forever. As long as it doesn't spend this amount again, it not only doesn't collect any interest on it, it also holds currency while it's value is becoming inflated.

In short, it pays a tax to the US, because it takes currency, delivers values and than after that slowly looses the currency, which means that within short time, the amount of compensation for their work will be much less of what they delivered as a product.

What does that mean for China? China either helps to pay of US dept actively by holding large currency reserves of $, which is only good for the US and very bad for China. Another option is to give the currency to a third country that needs it, but what would it need $ for? Only to buy US products. What is the last option? Spend it back in the US.

That is why free trade actually works.

That is also why the "them foreighen nations be steeling mah jobz" is nonsense. If a nation doesn't open it's market, all it does it hurt itself.

@"rich guy" and how we have to help out the "little man" and other 1930s sparks of geniality that lead to weknowwhat:
Well, if you want to drive a country into a civil war, ask the citizens if their life is "fair". Than hand them some sort of scapegoat and ask them that on a scale of 1-24 if their situation in comparison isn't just sub par to what it should be.

What is fair? If you can't count fair and you can't point out a situation where fairness exists (and where it doesn't and what the exact difference amounts to), than fairness is a thing that has no place in economic concerns.

Again the rich people are like China in the example before:
They are best off if they take their acquired currency and invest it in something as fast as possible. Otherwise they only hold large amounts of money that are massively slashed by inflation. If you know how to calculate interest (in that case negative), you will know that there will be nothing left of the money very quickly, no matter how much of it was there in the first place. What does that mean? When they sell stuff to the larger public, do services or make w/e contribution that they earned their money with, they are much like China doing that virtually for free, if they do not immediately search for a way to do further business with said money.

Concerning the idea that the middle class in the US carries the weight of the state on it's shoulders:
That you base on statistics that can be bended in any way you desire.

However, it shows a certain way of thinking to weight fairness this way:
The idea that there can be employees without employers, or employers without employees.
That is not true.

Any economy needs the capital holders and the ones who are employed to use it for production of values to work together.
If the economy wants to make sure that the needs are met best, it should aim to produce a maximum of value with it's options.

Giving the state loads and loads of taxes doesn't do that.

In the end it doesn't matter who pays those taxes, the rich, the poor, the middle class...
It always ends up in having all of them suffer from having less and wasting more to inefficiencies, because the money goes round in circles and the dollar in each persons pocket is the same that was in the pocket of a rich person once and the same that a poor person spent.

Oh poop.

/10poop