Zeit Geist (a discussion)

Most of you might have already seen this, but for what its worth here it is again. Its two hours so you might wanna set aside some time.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm


In all honesty if you havent seen this then i urge you to watch it, even if only to formulate your own opinions against it.

I dont agree with everthing discussed here and i know that there is even more to be considered but i feel this is a starting point.

when you have the time watch it all the way through, you wont be disappointed, perhaps disillusioned but not disappointed.

as far as internet propaganda goes..... this is a must see, even for sceptics.

It reeks of bullshit and ignorance, and manipulation of evidence.

Once I saw the part where it said "Jesus was born on December 24th," I turned it off right then and there. The guy who made this is a jackass who can't even bother to check if his facts are true.

We don't know when Jesus was born - we simply celebrate it on the Dec. 24th. In fact, many historians and theologians think he was born in the summer months because of the many passages in the Bible describing how things were like around the time Jesus was born. (I.e. the shepherds were out in the fields; minor details like that.)

If he can't get something so simple like that correct, I doubt he can think that the governments are all controlled by space aliens or whatever other equally untrue bullshit he can pull out of his ass.

Conspiracy theories are for those too ignorant to think for themselves, or look at things rationally and critically and scientifically. I put them on a level lower than homeotherapists.

It proposes interesting theories, but they're just that. Anyone who beleives blindly in the movie is a fool. I didn't buy the Jesus part. The 9/11 and the bankers part was more beleivable.

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Originally Posted by Xenonight2

It reeks of bullshit and ignorance, and manipulation of evidence.

Once I saw the part where it said "Jesus was born on December 24th," I turned it off right then and there. The guy who made this is a jackass who can't even bother to check if his facts are true.

We don't know when Jesus was born - we simply celebrate it on the Dec. 24th. In fact, many historians and theologians think he was born in the summer months because of the many passages in the Bible describing how things were like around the time Jesus was born. (I.e. the shepherds were out in the fields; minor details like that.)

If he can't get something so simple like that correct, I doubt he can think that the governments are all controlled by space aliens or whatever other equally untrue bullshit he can pull out of his ass.

Conspiracy theories are for those too ignorant to think for themselves, or look at things rationally and critically and scientifically. I put them on a level lower than homeotherapists.

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im assuming you didnt watch the whole thing

admittedly i switched off after the first 20 mins but i forced myself to watch the rest just so i could lambast it

i propose you do the same if you havent already done... watch it all

seriously deimos...

the only Zeit Geist with ANY form of truth is this one:

http://www.melodic.net/img6/Smashing..._Zeitgeist.jpg

It makes me want to think of things that I never thought I would. I guess some things are best kept secret.

Boring.

The banking section is interesting, but it's nothing I hadn't studied by myself. The rest is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Bryan

If it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and tastes like bullshit.
It's probably bullshit.

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Lol had to do it

What's new? Our world is corrupt and will always be that way, it's human nature.

I thought it was interesting to watch.

I've watched about, ok... 30-40 min in, then stopped.
He doesn't simply get things like what Xeno pointed out wrong, but there are many scientific facts that he gets wrong.
Really, it's just an idiot pointing fingers. He has no clue what he's talking about.

It's just some college kid (probably a drop out) trying to get people worked out about nothing and convert to atheists.

i saw this a while back now.
Thought it was pretty interesting but I wasnt listening to half the things he said tbh. =\

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Originally Posted by Deimos

as far as internet propaganda goes..... this is a must see, even for sceptics.

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The more interesting question is what the opposite has to offer.

About the whole 9/11 issue, which is as far as I have come till now:
Neither is the free press careful enough or competent enough to hinder put to forth all the evidence used in this (hardly so it actively provides it's share), nor are any of their general customers.

That means everyone in this thread, each of us excluding several small pieces of fact, that we might feel able to pass our judgement on.
So for example all technical arguments I hear about the destruction of the towers are false.
The still make it into the news, if the creator of this took the time and used real news-articles or just manufactured it, I don't know (I just found the sources section, I am not sure if I realy want to waste my time on this);
What stays evident:
- The free press is lacking and not able to live up to the responsibility to create trustworthy information about our world any more; How they presented all this is ridiculous (all this is actually pretty much equivalent to the war on terror and all that surrounds it) and making it easy for such people as the creators of the film.
- We ourself need to review what we trust in, because we are hardly competent to distinguish facts, on which we rely the press on to do it for us.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle between the film and what is issued as official news, but this is already horrendous, because the media covers the whole range from news to myth-making.

To all the people who just openly and generally disagree:
What do you know? Where do you know it from?
All this is is a summary of evidential material, things that are reported similarly by traditional established media and a few years ago.
Alone this is more than just troubling, the media obviousely is in a crisis, but to take the step and act like the information we have gotten used to be selective and think we are up to make that selection is approaching this issue from the ultimatley wrong side because we are not.

About the very buhdist coloured speech in the begining and the general critisism of religion: From what people know my position here, they might assume I am of the same opinion, lets put forth that I am seeing this the first time. I think it's rather bland and extremely focused on winning a battle that it can't win.
When you counter an aesthetic or romantic outlook on the world such as people of strong faith have, do not include romantic or aesthetic arguments into your too much flaming speech for objectivism, or you will loose all you strive for, even if you win, which is unlikely; You don't beat religions on their own battlefield.

I stoped watching the movie when i heard him pronounce RothsChild.
""Where did you learn your trade, you stupid f*ck*ng c**t?"

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Edit: I very much recomend the book "The looming tower" by Lawrence Wright which won itself the pulitzer prize; It at least gives you enough insight to counter much of the said film about AlQuaeda or Bin Laden where it's just appearing incompetent. The New York Times called it marvellous and I can only agree to that.

i just thought the global banking conspiracy and bit about wars was kind of interesting

i dont know much about any of that since i havent researched it myself so it wouldnt take much to convince me, but i thought it was interesting.


the part on religion was the section with the most bullcrap i felt. i dont know if you can totally discredit everything discussed here though.

I found all the zodiac and christian comparisons cool, but once we started getting the conspiracy theory i got bored.

Okay, about the "The central bank guise are out to get us" (yea I went back to watch it):

1# Since 1972 (I am not sure about the exact date it passed, was in the early times of the 2nd Nixon administration), all campaign funding has to be openly declared, it's against the law to fund more than one party in presidential elections and general party and election funding has a maximum, that is capped.
2# Running for president is an extremely risky, expensive and complicated issue. The majority of the presidents had not gained the ability to alter the constitution without the oppositions consent. Also mostly there is a proven history of elected presidents not really giving a crap about what they promised, why should they; Also the head of the bank cannot be held by the president, which leaves him to the will fare of an appointee, what kind of mass control is that? As soon as this appointee leaves, the capital stays with the institution (obviousely).
3# Productivity of nations are linked to the minimal personal hindrance of starting an enterprise, of a flexible market with few regulations, of taking care of the individuals property, privately and publicly and of the security of those enterprises.
4# Productivity is directly related to the GPD, energy and infrastructure level, personal wealth and welfare as well as healthcare, education and security against criminality. Also to the personal sense of this security and the personal sense of freedom I would like to add.
5# The power of the central banks are growing and falling in international comperativity resulting from economic growth or dimise. Sabotage would make no sense to them, as they would basically just ruin the economy they rely their power on and their chance of competition in a nowadays even further interconnected global market.
6# The real present market value of stocks, all financial currency value has to balance out with the real goods. There is no value created in printing money, contrary to what the videos creators might believe. The marked reacts nearly in real time to the lowering or rising of only interest rates and also ultra sensitive to any devaluations or revaluations. Those are there to keep a stable growing pace of economic development and to keep a healthy foreign trade balance, how the idea that any bank would love to see something else I am just wondering.
7# War's contrary to the films make-believe, do not fuel an economy in the long run (and also only very selectively in the short one). The number of companies that are smaller or medium sized, that had to close doors in America reached historical top levels within months after the beginning of the Afghanistan intervention, just to peak after the start of Iraqi Freedom. The result is obvious; since the introduction of the Euro, the value of the dollar has dropped by nearly 40%; This means that all your millionaire bankers lost 40% of their money's worth in comperative goods but in their own country they lost even more the initiative. ~6% in real goods they will loose each year, because the American economy doesn't grow any more. Hardly this is to the excitement of the American central bank, which has already lost (edit: Id like to add "a big portion" here to make sure I don't go over the border) their world leading position.

Well, considering ive posted a few theories i know how this will go. Most or more than most of the people in the world are to stubborn to give ANYTHING a chance weather it be this or theories of 9/11 or even JFK. Im not much on religion(mainly cause well, religion teaches people to be selfish, stubborn and act on the ways of other people and not on your own views). I have friends of all religions and we argue all the time. Personally, i dont know what to believe. I do believe there is something out there with higher power but is it a god? I have no idea. The fact noone really knows if Jesus was gods son or just some dude who assumed a role and took followers.

Seriously tho, i wasnt there, and neither were you. So you can chill on the flame wars. A state of confusion is nothing to be hung over.

What ive learned is this. People lie easy enough. Even tho we have facts on some major so called "theories". People who believe in them, are called crazy and on the case of this. Just plain evil. Its just absurd to me that we have more facts on aliens or ufos than we do on god or jesus. But even still, youre called crazy if you speak of ufos, and called kind hearted when speaking of jesus. When you grow up, and raised on a point of view i can understand it being hard to watch something like this. But not watching this or like he said above, reading " The looming tower" is just blinding yourself to he possibilities of the world.

And that, is seriously just stupid.

Someone organised the World Trade Centre attacks and whoever it was deserves to be brought to justice and be punished, regardless of who is was. We'll never know.

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

Someone organised the World Trade Centre attacks and whoever it was deserves to be brought to justice and be punished, regardless of who is was. We'll never know.

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It was.........
.........
.........
.........
.........
.........
.........
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..................George W Bush

Yea thats right, you know it was him.

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Originally Posted by Phr0zen

It was.........
.........
.........
.........
.........
.........
.........
.........
..................George W Bush

Yea thats right, you know it was him.

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Sadly, i agree. Well, not all him but just the goverment in general. Shady as hell

George Bush thought Wales was in England, he can barely use grammar.

Are we really going to propose that he orchestrated the World Trade Centre attacks?

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

George Bush thought Wales was in England, he can barely use grammar.

Are we really going to propose that he orchestrated the World Trade Centre attacks?

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He is just a puppet anyway.

This seems about on the same level as Scientology to me

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

Someone organised the World Trade Centre attacks and whoever it was deserves to be brought to justice and be punished, regardless of who is was. We'll never know.

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People have been constantly blowing themselves up in the name of god. Is it so hard to believe that 9 people would ram planes into a building in the name of god?

I don't think our govt is crazy enough to have orchestrated a terrorist attack more devastating than pearl harbor. We just aren't that stupid.

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Originally Posted by Sandman53

I don't think our govt is crazy enough to have orchestrated a terrorist attack more devastating than pearl harbor. We just aren't that stupid.

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Oh i beleive it's capable, not Bush himself, but the true goverment.

I would have to agree with sandman.

I still think that one sharp shooter killed JFK.

There ARE pictures of those planes that "ram" into the twin towers. And those pictures DO NOT show a commercial airliner. Theres a small bright flash at the time of both planes hitting the tower. A small pod can be seen with your own eyes on the bottom of the aircraft, which in fact normal commercial airliners, like the ones that were supposed to crash dont have. But you know what does have them, and look like commercial airliners? Air Force One. You know what else you can see on the planes...a round blue sticker...yeah much like the one on air force one planes. Everyone who seen the planes said in interviews that there were no united stickers on the side no nothing to say its a commercial airliner. Im not saying the goverment really did do this, but what im saying is. Those planes are not commercial aircraft and its a FACT. What did happen to those planes and the people on them?

Put it this way:

Your a father and your son is coming home from college on a greyhound bus. The day he leaves your watching the news and it alerts you that the same greyhound bus your son was on had crashed into a building. Killing everyone inside the bus. Now, footage is released and when your watching the footage you notice that the bus they show isnt a greyhound, its a trailways bus.

Now, they are telling you your sons bus is gone, and so is he. But the film clearly shows a different bus going into the building.

A ) Why is the news/government lying about all this?
B ) Where is your son?
C ) What about the greyhound?

itt: people still think that our government is capable of planning an elaborate hoax, then being foiled by a college kid

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Originally Posted by Sandman53

People have been constantly blowing themselves up in the name of god. Is it so hard to believe that 9 people would ram planes into a building in the name of god?

I don't think our govt is crazy enough to have orchestrated a terrorist attack more devastating than pearl harbor. We just aren't that stupid.

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wait, are you saying our govt planned pearl harbor?

kaitos, your a dumbass

im done, most you guys are ******ed.

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Originally Posted by kait0s

C ) What about the greyhound?

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Maybe you should be considering getting glasses, to prevent further similar confusion?

I left as soon as I saw the horrible dinosaur drawing, seriously, it looked like a monkey.

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Originally Posted by TheJESTERJ

itt: people still think that our government is capable of planning an elaborate hoax, then being foiled by a college kid

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Unless people with power who can do something about it seriously believes it, its not exactly foiled, and im pretty sure that would never happen.

See what im saying. Stubborn ass people who think they know everything. Seriously, its life dude. You dont and will not ever know everything that goes on in the world, so dont act like you do.

Its not my fault you fail to see what i see. Give a few hours to a documentary and you can see for yourself. If you dont give the time to watch it, dont bother saying anything. Cause honestly, wtf do you know?

The government has no proof that bin laden had anything to do with it. but for some reason, we have proof that what they told us happened, didnt happen. We have more proof it was the government then it was laden. Simple

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

All this is, is controlled rebellion. They government let this shit out to keep morons distracted. That's all it is, and it works.

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What's the point to gaining focus? Also why would the government distract him?
He just sees the world how he likes it, everyone does.The amount of phantasm and imagination differs, but we all are just distracting our self, you and I and everyone else here, searching the net for informations on a subject that we never saw personally, we just go as far as to fuel our need to fill our longing for distraction and then move on.

Some people are getting so much into it, that they act, they make movies, threads, posts, they might loose focus of what is real and what isn't, some will try to change the world and some want to from an instant to another die for some deity.

All just to fill the void in our tasteless world with the spice of excitement.

It's because we can't understand it. It makes us feel like we have to create that understanding, to make this world complete with explanations.

Yes, Ronin.

Oooh, look how cutting edge you are, playing the pragmatist once again.

Joking aside, really, all that pretentious pseudo-philosophy is unneeded. What I said is what I believe, these kinds of videos are nothing more than welcome distractions to keep idiots distracted.

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Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

Yes, Ronin.

Oooh, look how cutting edge you are, playing the pragmatist once again.

Joking aside, really, all that pretentious pseudo-philosophy is unneeded. What I said is what I believe, these kinds of videos are nothing more than welcome distractions to keep idiots distracted.

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From what?

That's all I ask, from elfin what?

What do you need to distract idiots from, that have no idea whatsoever and sit somewhere in their living rooms 5000 miles away?

What would they see if they weren't distracted?
They see shit, just like you see shit and I see shit and nearly everybody else does. There is hardly a need to personally distract any of us from anything.

Where it for the careful supervision by you and me, they could do whatever they want all day long. Just as it does not ****ing matter to them if you spend your days watching Disney cartoons and think that they are real...

No one cares.

"Welcome distraction" my...

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Originally Posted by Ronin

From what?

That's all I ask, from elfin what?

What do you need to distract idiots from, that have no idea whatsoever and sit somewhere in their living rooms 5000 miles away?

What would they see if they weren't distracted?
They see shit, just like you see shit and I see shit and nearly everybody else does. There is hardly a need to personally distract any of us from anything.

Where it for the careful supervision by you and me, they could do whatever they want all day long. Just as it does not even ****ing matter to them if you spend your days watching Disney cartoons and think that they are real...

No one cares.

"Welcome distraction" my...

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There are many possibilities for distraction. For instance, the US Govt could be using 9/11, Iraq, Bin Laden, etc to keep people under a shroud of fear.

The people will be focused on this fear and believe that they are in danger from terrorists when in reality they are not.

This distraction stops people focusing on employment rates, raising gas prices, the economy, how many of their soldiers are dying, etc.

Fear works, very well. People are stupid and will believe, and focus on whatever you tell them too, especially if you can convince them that they are in "danger".

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Originally Posted by Phr0zen

Politicians might have got into it to make a difference, but once you are in the game, they probably realize pretty quick how corrupt it is, and try and "get theirs". Greed is a powerful thing, and most people succumb to it.

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i agree with this 100%


anyone, no matter how good their intentions or how strong their beliefs, will eventually become institutionalized and more worried about keeping their position. at this point the politics becomes a front in that they will say anything to get the votes with little intention of actually making any big changes.


you see lots of headlines in papers and hear lots of people talking about how the british political system is now totally rubbish since it is dominated by two parties which are almost identical.

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you see lots of headlines in papers and hear lots of people talking about how the british political system is now totally rubbish since it is dominated by two parties which are almost identical.

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Sounds like the U.S.

Dumbocrats and Rebuttlickians are pretty much the same, except they can't agree on Gay Marriage and Abortion.