10 year old does not do the pledge of allegiance.

[Claudezero]

My point was to illustrate the feeling some people may have about gay marriages, just so you so understand how they might feel.

i edited my post. please check it again.

[Norrin Radd]

Well, to illustrate the discomfort, some people have due to gay marriages being legal, I ask you to imagine an U.S.A. where christmas trees were, one year, suddenly banned forever from christmas. If you can't see why some people might see that as a loss due to traditional reasons, then I don't know what to tell you.

You've been pushing something I never said I misunderstood.

I did not misunderstand the idea that people are sad at the loss of a perceived tradition.

My point was just that tradition is just another word for the collective habit, and habits are not always good, thus they can be broken. Do not ever forget that.

[mazul]

i edited my post. please check it again.

Yeah, I am confident the example I gave will not happen in any near future. However, the feeling you would have if that happened (maybe due to furture enviromental problems?), is to be compared to the feeling people may have due to the goverment taking away their "christmas tree" from the marriage tradition.

I repeat: I am merely pointing out "reasonable" arguments that people can have against gay marriage.

You've been pushing something I never said I misunderstood.

I did not misunderstand the idea that people are sad at the loss of a perceived tradition.

My point was just that tradition is just another word for the collective habit, and habits are not always good, thus they can be broken. Do not ever forget that.

Yeah, I agree. Habits are definitely not always good. I believe, as I mentioned before, that it is important that we still have respect for old traditions even if they are not coherent with our current opinions, by using democracy to decide the future of such traditions.

[Norrin Radd]

I repeat; I don't think there are any.

There's no reason to say gay people cannot indulge in a ceremony that's just as archaic and unnecessary when straight people do it.

If the only reason people have, that you're promoting, is a loss of tradition; tough. Get over it. Some things need changing.

[Cingal]

Well, to illustrate the discomfort, some people have due to gay marriages being legal, I ask you to imagine an U.S.A. where christmas trees were, one year, suddenly banned forever from christmas. If you can't see why some people might see that as a loss due to traditional reasons, then I don't know what to tell you.

That's frankly laughable.

You're comparing something getting allowed to something getting banned.

There's kinda a massive flaw in that, that being that they are two opposites.

Do you really think gay people want to be part of an arcane tradition that oppresses them? Nope.

Marriage can exist outside of a religion union. Marriage has never been a strictly religious affair either.

You're not losing any part of your tradition if the people you're oppressing want nothing to do with it. They just want to get married outside of the church, and be respected as partners in the eyes of the law.

[Norrin Radd]

There should be VERY few cultural traditions. No more than that.

Tradition being preserved is just another way for older people to stay clinging to a time past by forcing us to endure it too. If we don't, we're disrespectful.

Like how baby boomers tried re-selling their youth culture in the form of the new Volkswagen beetle, because it was "tradition" that young people continue using them. It's nonsense.

Your day is gone, ours is here and there are new things you won't accept. End of story. Those who decide what traditions stay or go are those who have more time invested here. Not older generations. We do not owe it to them.

Besides, when they're all gone can we finally do what we want? Tradition is never mandatory. Even Christmas isn't mandatory. Some do not celebrate it.

[Claudezero]

That's frankly laughable.

You're comparing something getting allowed to something getting banned.

There's kinda a massive flaw in that, that being that they are two opposites.

Do you really think gay people want to be part of an arcane tradition that oppresses them? Nope.

Marriage can exist outside of a religion union. Marriage has never been a strictly religious affair either.

You're not losing any part of your tradition if the people you're oppressing want nothing to do with it. They just want to get married outside of the church, and be respected as partners in the eyes of the law.

you summed this up pretty nicely as well.

[mazul]

There should be VERY few cultural traditions. No more than that.

Tradition being preserved is just another way for older people to stay clinging to a time past by forcing us to endure it too. If we don't, we're disrespectful.

Like how baby boomers tried re-selling their youth culture in the form of the new Volkswagen beetle, because it was "tradition" that young people continue using them. It's nonsense.

Your day is gone, ours is here and there are new things you won't accept. End of story. Those who decide what traditions stay or go are those who have more time invested here. Not older generations. We do not owe it to them.

Besides, when they're all gone can we finally do what we want? Tradition is never mandatory. Even Christmas isn't mandatory. Some do not celebrate it.

I didn't really keep in mind those traditions where you really can't "vote" about. Was more thinking of traditions which are being regulated by law.

[gratscorpio]

and those people fighting back are pushing THEIR views on those oppressing, be them better views or not, they are still pushing THEIRS on the oppressors. dont see whats so hard to get. IF i was against gay marriage, by making me have to live in a country where gays can get married, your pushing your view on me.

i personally dont care if gays can get married or not, doesnt affect me so i dont care. if i had to vote -- id allow them.



ah, thats cool and all, but guess what? my parents were verbally abusive and i didnt learn a damn thing other than gain a big fear of people yelling, and other side effects of a non-positive manner

I said several times I dont condone abuse in that very post....there a big difference between verbal abuse and calling you kid an idiot the 3-4 times he/she does something really stupid/rude...again sorry if due to your child hood you can not see that.

on topic: I agree with you on the fact that I do not care if they get married or not as it really does not effect me in the slightest, but alot of people saying it not fair have im gonna guess never really read what the law states about marriage in the first place (and alot saying it is fair prolly dont realize just how out dated and archaic the law/regulations are any ways)..people who are married get benefits because a man/woman can do certain thing...cough have child cough that same sex couples cant so the argument really isnt they are both dudes or chicks they cant get married (unless you bring in religion which is well..past it prime) it more of a they should not get the same benefits that we has an opposite couple get, the law also states that the marriage is the foundation of the family and helps to uphold family values etc etc (lol like thats not out dated...) and that same sex couples can not have child and there for can not have a family (by ways of the law) the law really doesnt take into account adoption but there ruling is that the same sex couple did not bare the child etc (which unfortunetly does make sense I seriously dought or hope I never live to see the day a dude gives birth, and the family is in a sense is the child producing social structure...or at least was, but seriously i think we are well past the days of offering incentives for people to bare child I mean we have a pretty good medical syetem/survival rate now and days..not like they gotta crap out 20 of em to have 4 live..just saying)

To me it a lot of political babble thats being used to distract the population from real problems such as poor starving children and war/international tensions.

interesting side note: teen pregnacies have actually decreased but the nuber of unwed teens who got pregnant and didnt get married has increased, lol seem it really the guy makeing the trouble this time with their of shit I ****ed up (literally) and not taking responsibility for it.

scorpio

[mazul]

That's frankly laughable.

You're comparing something getting allowed to something getting banned.

There's kinda a massive flaw in that, that being that they are two opposites.

Do you really think gay people want to be part of an arcane tradition that oppresses them? Nope.

Marriage can exist outside of a religion union. Marriage has never been a strictly religious affair either.

You're not losing any part of your tradition if the people you're oppressing want nothing to do with it. They just want to get married outside of the church, and be respected as partners in the eyes of the law.

In both cases, some people lose a vital part of their tradition. The point was, I repeat, to illustrate how some people can feel very badly about the introduction of gay marriage. None of you arguments discredit that point.

[Cingal]

In both cases, some people lose a vital part of their tradition. The point was, I repeat, to illustrate how some people can feel very badly about the introduction of gay marriage. None of you arguments discredit that point.

You may wish to read the "Gay people don't want to be part of your tradition" and the "Marriage is not a strictly religious affair".

If people feel badly because they feel they're losing part of their tradition when a group of people who just want their love to be accepted in the eyes of the law and not want anything to do with the arcane tradition, then, they're really the ones with the problems and the people who are making things worse.