Vigilantism: Discuss

[V-Opolis]

Seeing as Judgment is filling his posts with nonsense and dangerously psychotic ramblings, I'll deal with this post in hopes of something more sensible.



Punishment deters, but punishment does not need to be killing. That's not punishment. To punish is to force someone to live with something they've done wrong, and the consequences of it.

Jail is punishment. It doesn't matter whether or not the criminals care or not.



I'm not saying punishment is wrong.



The law being there does deter people. Not ONLY that, but it is a part of it.

The very existence of the law and knowledge of what awaits when you break it, even if you could get away with it, deters a lot of people.

wait isnt that the punishment then, not the law? or is the law the punishment?

[Ronin]

Much of what I've argued can be seen in the works of Lombroso, Beccaria, and Durkheim. The mere fact that you'd dismiss something already proven by notable theorists shows just how much you yourself know. Your lack of knowledge is evident in your posts.

I would use the word proven with extreme caution.

Especially with trying to argue the timelessness of an ethical "fashion" that has outlived itself that clearly. (I can't remember any past development to come close in being so strikingly amiss; Even when I look at the stormy history of the ethics of the catholic church, I nothing comparable comes to my mind.)

[Edit: I purposefully avoided going into the aspect of Positivist ethics in the Third Reich as a huge enabling of what we now call it's crimes against humanity. I don't think that we need to dive into termini, to understand what these are. If you want to see the result of your ideas and experience them face to face; Go online and dig up some photo archive from any of the popular sites of their "detention, or else system" and watch it for about 30 minutes. Then tell us how you felt about that.]

[Norrin Radd]

wait isnt that the punishment then, not the law? or is the law the punishment?

The punishment is what awaits if you break the law, in most cases. This is a deterrent.

However, even if someone feels they may get away with a crime, the very fact that it's illegal can deter them.

[V-Opolis]

The punishment is what awaits if you break the law, in most cases. This is a deterrent.

However, even if someone feels they may get away with a crime, the very fact that it's illegal can deter them.

may get away? then ya? 100% sure they will get away? not in the slightest, unless they have morals of steel.

[Norrin Radd]

may get away? then ya? 100% sure they will get away? not in the slightest, unless they have morals of steel.

So we agree that on its own, the law can be a factor?

Splendid.

[V-Opolis]

So we agree that on its own, the law can be a factor?

Splendid.

cool, its a good day. i agreed with you, i swam half a mile(first exercise in 3 months), worked 8 hours. all thats left is a 12 hour nap.

[CaptRex]

Do what must be done! Show no mercy on them!! >

[Judgment]

[Edit: I purposefully avoided going into the aspect of Positivist ethics in the Third Reich as a huge enabling of what we now call it's crimes against humanity. I don't think that we need to dive into termini, to understand what these are. If you want to see the result of your ideas and experience them face to face; Go online and dig up some photo archive from any of the popular sites of their "detention, or else system" and watch it for about 30 minutes. Then tell us how you felt about that.]

What the Third Reich did against the Jewish people was a crime and I never said otherwise. There was no justice, just atrocities in the Endlosung. What I'm refering to is their method of rule. What I'm trying to say is that to limit crime, fear and terror is necessary.

Of course, crime would never entirely go away since crime is in itself a necessity to society and will always exist. Even in a world free of "crime", the definition of crime would change with society and new meanings of crime would appear.

I've pretty much seen all the photo's and videos related to the Nazi Concentration camps and while I agree that certain parts may be too much, I don't think it was all that wrong as a core idea. This whole idea of using criminals to advance humanity, I personally think it's a good idea. If criminals were used for human testing, we could advance science at a much faster pace. Sacrifice criminals to save the innocent. The way they went about it, making use of the hair and skin of the victims for everyday products can be viewed as productive in an economic sense. Disturbing but productive.

Wow. Judgement is one of the most insane people I've actually met on a forum. I'm not playing around or trying to bring you down, but you should seek professional help, ASAP.

Thanks...I'm happy you signed up just to say this to me. I actually take being called insane a compliment. My favorite characters in video games, comics, novels, etc. happen to be the "insane" evil mastermind who plots to totally destroy the world due to the guilt and corruption of humanity.

Fascism isn't all that bad actually if you look at the original version of it. Just like with Communism (warped by Stalin), the original fascism and its ideals were totally warped by Mussolini and Hitler into the form society views it today (same with Communism).

Just because its a law doesn't mean its justified.If they made a law sayin you could only eat one meal a day consisting of under 600 calories, and nothing else, would you follow it?

You've got a point here but such a law would never pass in the first place. The laws we have today are meant to be followed to make society a safer and better place, thus they require to be followed. Laws such as speeding and marijuana are illegal but are rarely actually enforced. Currently, they don't pose too much of a threat but in time, more and more laws will be broken with low enforcement. What needs to be done is that the Justice System enforce its own laws.

[V-Opolis]

You've got a point here but such a law would never pass in the first place. The laws we have today are meant to be followed to make society a safer and better place, thus they require to be followed. Laws such as speeding and marijuana are illegal but are rarely actually enforced. Currently, they don't pose too much of a threat but in time, more and more laws will be broken with low enforcement. What needs to be done is that the Justice System enforce its own laws.

ill leave you with this. No matter the consequences, will you ever be able to stop cheating on a test 100%?

[EpicPhail]

Guy kills your son, threatens to kill your wife. You know who he is, and can kill him-but cannot give proof to police.

Kill him or let him kill your wife ?

[Wicked315]

Guy kills your son, threatens to kill your wife. You know who he is, and can kill him-but cannot give proof to police.

Kill him or let him kill your wife ?

Protect the one I love? Or don't?

I'd kill him. I may be hauled off to jail, but I know what I did was the better thing to do. What if I was the next one to die? What then?