Final Fantasy VIII- Squall was dead

[IronyTaken]

I was browsing some sites I regularly go to and someone had a forum discussion with a link to this site.

http://squallsdead.com/




It about explaining the plot of FF VIII and what the person really thinks is happening.

Their theory is that after the end of disc one (when you fight Edea) Squall died when he was attacked by her and everything after that is a dream that was taking place in his last moments of living.





A lot of the stuff the person said kind of made sense but left no evidence to make it really convincing. Although the ending of the game seems to point towards the idea of Squall dying.

At times I agree and at other times it just seems like a way to cover in plot holes.

If the game really was a dream after disc one the story would make a lot more sense.

I always wondered about the sudden love interest toward Rinoa and Squall when she was obviously in love with Seifer.

Also when he wakes back up and he is in prison there is no wound and his jacket is perfectly intact.

Everyone in his group suddenly become forgotten childhood friends who lived together with Edea in an orphanage.

Squall, a low ranked SeeD member suddenly becomes a captain of a garden.


And then the ending which is like an acid trip seems to make more sense of it being a dream. It seems like this dream was Squall's desires being fulfilled.


Although there is no evidence to support this idea it kind of makes sense. But when I think about it you can interpret a story in many ways and not know which is correct.



So what is everyone's opinion on the idea that Squall was really just dying and it was all a dream of Squall's desires?

[Serix]

The Squall is a lie.

[MarchoftheBlackLions]

Interesting.

Reminds me of the Pokemon: Ash is really in a coma thing, lol.

[IronyTaken]

The Squall is a lie.

Lol!

Well even if this was my favorite Final Fantasy I admit it had a lot of plot holes and confusion. Having these plot holes either makes the game bad story wise or good if you want to fill in the blanks.

There was another plot idea where a guy even chronologically orders events but it was a much longer read....

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/28926


Since the game is a mix of fantasy and science fiction you can just make up almost any explanation. Another way for plot developers to be lazy and let the viewers decide.



Oh and

[Necronax]

The cool part about endings is a lot of the time they leave something open, and from that opening I design my own conclusion. In this case I assume Squall survives via teh heal powaz, and at the end he lives but it just leaves no room for what happened to him.

[Raiyne]

Oh god I need to replay this game, it's my favourite Final Fantasy of them all. Thanks for posting this.

[Sandman53]

The only argument you can't use is anything physical only because it could be due to laziness and/or the designers not caring. Final Fantasy has always been like that were no matter what you equip or what happens to your character your armor never changes.

As for the story. If it was really a dream it would only serve to piss me off. Not only is "the dream" extremely cliche, but it is also a huge cop out. Not only that, but as the player I feel like I wasted time playing out a scenario that did not actually happen (yes I know it wouldn't happen anyways). The show Rosane did the same thing where they basically said, yea after this point everything else was a dream.

So, no, I don't think the entire plot was merely a dream after the first disc. I know many people have these flashes before they die, but too assume that squall dreamed an entire plot before he died is odd. Everything in the story was somewhat paced well enough. It's not like anything in the story jumped out from left field, with the exception the whole orphanage thing.

Also. He always liked Rinoa, and I think he was jealous that she was so infatuated with Seifer.

[Riz]

Also what do you think about the idea that Riona is Ultimecia?

And why is Squall healed after Edea seriously injures him?


The ending flash back is just the weirdest part though. especially when it flashes back to him falling after being hit with a huge icicle.

Rinoa as Ultimecia does sound as though it could be valid, especially with her GF bearing the same name as the lion on Squall's gunblade. However, it's mentioned that Ultimecia is from the distant future, a time when everyone would have forgotten the game's events. Also note that Rinoa doesn't seem to have the same sort of magic(I think it's usually called "primal"?) as Ultimecia(Time) does.

As I've said, I think Squall is healed thanks to the magic of poor graphics or a lazy designer. It could also have been medical treatment. As I recall, they mention that he's been comatose for some days.

As for the ending...I'll let this video and description sum it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmDt-EbFslo

With Ultimecia defeated, the universe begins returning to normal; however, Squall is nearly lost in the flow of time as he witnesses the origins of the game's story. When a dying Ultimecia travels back in time to pass her powers to Edea, Squall informs Edea of the concepts of Garden and SeeD that she will create.[39] Afterward, he is warped back into the timestream where he is trapped until finally being rescued by Rinoa. At the end of the game, Squall kisses Rinoa during SeeD's victory celebration.

[IronyTaken]

Rinoa as Ultimecia does sound as though it could be valid, especially with her GF bearing the same name as the lion on Squall's gunblade. However, it's mentioned that Ultimecia is from the distant future, a time when everyone would have forgotten the game's events. Also note that Rinoa doesn't seem to have the same sort of magic(I think it's usually called "primal"?) as Ultimecia(Time) does.

As I've said, I think Squall is healed thanks to the magic of poor graphics or a lazy designer. It could also have been medical treatment. As I recall, they mention that he's been comatose for some days.

As for the ending...I'll let this video and description sum it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmDt-EbFslo

That could just be heaven lol!

But the explanation given for Rinoa being Ultimecia is that it was a Rinoa from a different universe. In this Universe Rinoa inherits the sorceress Adel's powers. This is when the Esthar soldiers are searching for a new heir to take the place of Adel.

Ellone was left to Doc Odine to be experimented on for her time control powers. So events in this Universe happen to be different to where Rinoa is the new Adel and things become bad enough under her control that just like in game plot's universe, a resistance builds up. Instead of Adel being the one sealed away Rinoa is since she is the new heir in this Universe.

Eventually far into the future she breaks the seal and she uses the perfected junction machine to reach back into the past for Ellone and uses her to compress time.......and well......it's confusing......

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/28926

Someone gives an explanation if you scroll down 80% of the way there is a section called "Who is Ultimecia"

[Riz]

A dying Ultimecia leaves her powers to Edea several years prior to the game, not knowing who she is. This generates a neverending cycle of defeat for Ultimecia. She can't be Rinoa from another universe, because eventually the cycle would break(No Edea in that universe, no Squall at the orphanage, etc.), possibly causing a complete compression. In short, you wouldn't be playing the game because there wouldn't be a universe for it. Think about that one.

Also note that Rinoa did not have the awakened sorceress powers until a good distance into the game, when they were passed onto her via Adel. Also note again that Rinoa never shows a hint of affinity for time magic. Angel Wings allows for an effortless casting of basic magic.

It's a valid theory, but it's far too full of holes and the like to be taken seriously.

I'm done here, this is a pointless argument at this point. The mechanics of time travel are never fully explained in the game. For all we know Zell is Ultimecia.

[Arri]

So tell me...

If squall died and the rest of the game is "his last memories" then how come his "last memories" somehow took him on an adventure that he in no way ever experienced while he was "alive"?

It's a stupid theory that those people just want to try and argue about to make them seem smart. It's easily false, IMO.

[Mordar]

If squall died and the rest of the game is "his last memories" then how come his "last memories" somehow took him on an adventure that he in no way ever experienced while he was "alive"?

because a wizard did it, and it's final fantasy, so everyone it's a wizard

[bonneau_14]

Yeah, VIII had a weird storyline to me. The junction system was weird for me, I went to the end of disk two without really using it. Wayy too many tutorials in the beggining and i got tired of reading that shit.

VII needed sequals, prequals, and spin offs to fill in plot holes, but it makes complete sense now.

[hobosexual]

So tell me...

If squall died and the rest of the game is "his last memories" then how come his "last memories" somehow took him on an adventure that he in no way ever experienced while he was "alive"?

It's a stupid theory that those people just want to try and argue about to make them seem smart. It's easily false, IMO.

You know I would have just let it go if you hadn't tried to sound so smug about it, I mean for christs sake it's just a theory about the plot of a Final Fantasy game, but you did actually read the link right? They aren't saying it's all his memories and his life is flashing before his eyes they are saying it's kind of a "Final Fantasy" as Irony put it about what could have been. It's his mind trying to piece together some unknowns before he dies.

You have heard of these things called dreams, correct? Are they only things you've experienced or are they something entirely new, albeit pieced together with parts of your memories and things in your subconscious and the like.

The mind is a powerful tool and you don't seem to be using yours to its full potential right now.

It's a perfectly plausible situation (I mean as far as the game goes anyway) and even though it is a little far fetched it does do a better job of explaining some things than square did.

/endnerdrage

[hobosexual]

She's entitled to her opinion just like those people are entitled to theirs. Personally I think it's silly to read to much in to a story. Often plot holes and gaps exist so that we can fill in the spots to make the story more personal and comfortable to us. There's no time paradox or loop going on in VIII. It's just a Final Fantasy game. FF X doesn't make much sense either, but there you have it.

Uhh that isn't the point. The point is he was calling the theory stupid while not even fully understanding it and being insulting about it to boot.

[Kanaju]

olawdylawdy

[Solitude]

i like final FF but i haven't seen FF VIII.

told me it was exciting and sweet, full of rage.

i dunno... maybe i need to see it myself...

[Krunkmasta Flex]

well this makes sense why the story was so shitty.

[darkgohanx99]

I thought people dislike final fantasy 8 it is a good game. I guess final fantasy 7 is more popular then final fantasy 8.

[Paladin Catling]

final fantasy 9 wins all by far.

[Elegy]

FF8?

Good story?

Depth?

[Wicked315]

I think we are forgetting a key issue...

Why does any of this matter at all?