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Thread: Miscarriage = Homicide = Prison (WTF?)

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    Default Miscarriage = Homicide = Prison (WTF?)

    A new Utah law could charge women with homicide if they miscarry, making women's rights advocates concerned that women will be brought up on murder charges for drinking, failing to wear a seatbelt, or falling down the stairs.

    The bill passed Utah's state legislature last Thursday and still needs final approval by the governor, but it continues to gain attention this week for its unusually restrictive language. It doesn't address legal abortion, but allows punishment up to life in prison for an "intentional, knowing, or reckless act" that leads to a miscarriage or abortion without a doctor's supervision. Especially concerning to some Utah Democrats and many women's rights activists is the word "reckless" — writing for RH Reality Check, Rachel Larris says,

    Using the legal standard of "reckless behavior" all a district attorney needs to show is that a woman behaved in a manner that is thought to cause miscarriage, even if she didn't intend to lose the pregnancy. Drink too much alcohol and have a miscarriage? Under the new law such actions could be cause for prosecution.
    Women might also make themselves open to prosecution if they failed to wear a seatbelt and got in a car accident, if they stayed with an abusive partner, or even if they fell down the stairs, like a woman in Iowa who found herself jailed on suspicion of "attempted feticide." This woman eventually got off only because she wasn't yet in her third trimester — but unlike Iowa's feticide law, Utah's new bill would apply throughout pregnancy. Given that 15-20% of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage, 80% of those in the first trimester, Utah could have a lot of work ahead. Dan Savage writes,

    If every miscarriage is a potential homicide, how does Utah avoid launching a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? [...] And how is Utah supposed to know when a pregnant woman has had a miscarriage? You're going to have to create some sort of pregnancy registry to keep track of all those fetuses, Utah. Perhaps you could start issuing "conception certificates" to women who get pregnant? And then, if there isn't a baby within nine months of the issuance of a conception certificate, the woman could be hauled in for questioning and she could be indicted for criminal homicide if it's determined that she intentionally or accidentally induced a miscarriage.
    Of course, Utah probably isn't going to create such a registry, but its new legislation is striking for the way it targets women themselves, as opposed to abortion providers. Lynn Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, says, "For all these years the anti-choice movement has said ‘we want to outlaw abortion, not put women in jail, but what this law says is ‘no, we really want to put women in jail.'" And Jill of Feministe asks why, if anti-choice advocates are so concerned about miscarried fetuses, they aren't "trying to find a cure for the close to 50 percent of fertilized eggs that naturally don't implant, and are flushed out of the woman's body." Her answer: "the concern here isn't really about fetuses or life or any of that. It's about punishing women."
    What the flying fuggazoo?

    http://jezebel.com/5479032/the-next-...et-miscarriage

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    It's Utah....

    Mormon law is crazy!

    She knows how to party.

  3. #3
    V-Opolis
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobosexual View Post
    I agree with this.

    I think this law as a whole is pretty stupid though.

    I'm all for punishing people who drink/do drugs and give birth to a ****ed up baby as a result, but if a miscarriage occurs I don't see why they should be punished.
    you can have a miscarriage from drinking and drug use, what about in that case?

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    That's what I'm saying.

    If you miscarry you don't really hurt anyone but yourself.

    The entire law hinges on the idea that a fetus is a person with rights but as far as we know they aren't. But if you drink/do drugs and the baby survives you have just done some serious harm to a person.

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    If you actually look at the bill that was passed you will see it is very vague and leaves it open to interpretation so they can accuse any women with a miscarriage.

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    V-Opolis
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobosexual View Post
    That's what I'm saying.

    If you miscarry you don't really hurt anyone but yourself.

    The entire law hinges on the idea that a fetus is a person with rights but as far as we know they aren't. But if you drink/do drugs and the baby survives you have just done some serious harm to a person.
    well is abortion outside of a clinic legal?

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    How ****ing ******ed is that

    like people who get a miscariage haven't got enough problems yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by V-Opolis View Post
    well is abortion outside of a clinic legal?
    No but I'm assuming that's for the good of the person getting an abortion, we already let people do stupid shit that would possibly cause them to miscarry so that point is null.

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    They would have to track every pregnant women in the state. I see they talked about it a bit in he article.

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    V-Opolis
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobosexual View Post
    No but I'm assuming that's for the good of the person getting an abortion, we already let people do stupid shit that would possibly cause them to miscarry so that point is null.
    well then induced miscarriages are still against the law regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V-Opolis View Post
    well then induced miscarriages are still against the law regardless.
    I guess technically if you did it yourself with the purpose of aborting (try proving that), which is still pretty stupid because it's none of our business really. But that's not what this law is about.

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    What happens if you have twins but one twin absorbs the other twin in the uterus? Would the mother be charged with assisted homicide and the baby charged with homicide and cannibalism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oisterboy View Post
    This is just like anything else people get too worked up over.

    I'm sure it won't be used to prosecute accidental miscarriages. It'll just be used to punish those who have obviously done wrong.

    I mean, our government is real ****ed up, and I hate it just as much as the rest of you...but really?
    Think about prior to being able to teach Evolution in schools, a teacher could be prosecuted for bring it up. It can easily be used for something stupid just to make a point, quite an advocate or political enemy, make someone look bad. I disagree with this in any way or form, the thought of someone making a choice that could mean saving a wife or not birthing a child into a horrible life and get prison for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zipykido View Post
    What happens if you have twins but one twin absorbs the other twin in the uterus? Would the mother be charged with assisted homicide and the baby charged with homicide and cannibalism?
    lol'd hard :l

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