TenThousandSuns

[altarofscience]

I am making an mmo with a totally player driven economy. I have most of the game down, but I am working out some ways to make the game world more persistant.
Essentially the game has multiple worlds, which can interact via gates. Materials and items flow freely, but there is a risk for characters. The 2 choices are either, permanent death as a random chance, or higher level characters having an increasingly large chance if being refused entry through the gate.
The goals of the game are either extended round, where one group of players must conquer all the worlds, or eternal round where its too difficult for players to enforce their will because the leader characters can't travel to worlds and must rely on subordinates to rule those worlds for them. In this version empires will be rated on size and length or survival on a highscore chart.
It is very difficult for armies to assault older worlds with established power structures and minimal intra world warfare. In order for these worlds to be conquered players must have access to the resources or multiple worlds which allow them to utilize more powerful spells, items, potions, and so forth. Because trying to expand to a new world is risky, what if your leader defects to another faction or just to found his own empire, power players on old worlds may be hesistant to invest, but if they don't and another old world does and succeeds they could face an insurmountable invasion.
Further because the game is entirely player driven with a few minor exceptions, older worlds must fight to draw new players to their worlds and to retain current players. If the top level of players abuses their power players might migrate to other worlds or stop joining their world or both. So older players must provide incentives to newer ones. Otherwise they will be forced to fill more roles themselves dividing up their time. This makes it easier and easier for vital worlds, even less advanced ones, to succeed in an invasion.
The game involves a complex crafting system which is integral to gameplay since you cannot buy items from npcs. Further monsters drop only crafting materials and not gold or items. The economy is not faucet and drain where you can farm monsters and buy all gear from NPCs. You must interact with other players at some point. You could do all your crafting yourself, but this will slow your advancement compared to social players.
Do you guys think this sort of gameplay would be interesting? Don't tell me it is or isn't viable, that isn't my question.

[JTHSoftware]

It sounds interesting. I have some questions:

1. Does a single player control one character (as in WoW) or multiple characters (as in Starcraft)?
2. I'm assuming that a player in one world can trade items with a player in a different world. Is that correct? In other words, players don't have to be right next to each other to trade?
3. Are the game worlds 3d or 2d?
4. Do armies consist entirely of player controlled characters?
5. I'm assuming that each player in a "team" would generally want to stick to being in one world. For example, if a team had 4 players, then maybe the first guy is always in world #4, the 2nd guy is always in world #9, and the 3rd guy is always in world #2. Maybe the 4th guy would also be in world #2, doing things together with the 3rd guy. Is that the intent?
6. Would there be a maximum number of players a team could have?

I like the idea of 100s of teams all jockeying for the high rankings on a highscore chart. For example, if teams #5 and #7 have exhausted their resources fighting each other, then team #4's army could swoop in and heavily damage team #5. Meanwhile, team #9 could swoop in to attack one of team #4's cities, since that city's army is away fighting team #5. I see all sorts of possibilites for counter-attacks, counter-counter-attacks, and creative attacking and defense strategies.

If eternal round is used, I like the idea of logging off at 10 PM to go to sleep, and then when I wake up at 8 AM, logging in to see what happened overnight. Was my team attacked? Were any of my teammates online fighting battles while I slept?

Which brings me to another question... would my team's empire be able to somewhat defend itself from others' attacks even if nobody on my team was online (like if it was 4 AM)? For example, maybe some forts would have automated missile turrets like in Starcraft.

I hope I understood things correctly. Your game sounds like it has a lot of potential to be very interesting.

[altarofscience]

It sounds interesting. I have some questions:

1. Does a single player control one character (as in WoW) or multiple characters (as in Starcraft)?
its a text based rpg, because its too time and money intensive for one person who is poor to make a real wow style mmorpg. players have one character. however for work in mines and shops and farms and such they can hire npc workers who do a minimal amount of gathering. they can post wages for players to mine which is sort of like quests in other games, but no npcs. they can also assign quests i guess.
2. I'm assuming that a player in one world can trade items with a player in a different world. Is that correct? In other words, players don't have to be right next to each other to trade?
trading is area specific but you can buy shops to sell items in with npc shopkeepers
3. Are the game worlds 3d or 2d?
text based with a world map
4. Do armies consist entirely of player controlled characters?
players can hire npc npc guards for specific buildings. this costs a fair bit but prevents low levels from taking your buildings or items. groups of players in towns or guilds of various kinds can higher militia, which is basically a large group of guards. a few different wage payment options for them. powerful players may or may not have the option to make area based guard post type guards which protect all buildings players items in a given area. still have to balance. typically a player character is significantly more powerful than a single npc guard. players may or may not be able to use spells enchantments or monster summons to guard their buildings/fields/items
5. I'm assuming that each player in a "team" would generally want to stick to being in one world. For example, if a team had 4 players, then maybe the first guy is always in world #4, the 2nd guy is always in world #9, and the 3rd guy is always in world #2. Maybe the 4th guy would also be in world #2, doing things together with the 3rd guy. Is that the intent?
players start out in one world, it takes high level characters to open gates. there may or may not be multiple starting worlds. generally high level players would have significant restrictions on using gates. that forces them to vassalize players who can more easily travel to other worlds.
6. Would there be a maximum number of players a team could have?
No.

I like the idea of 100s of teams all jockeying for the high rankings on a highscore chart. For example, if teams #5 and #7 have exhausted their resources fighting each other, then team #4's army could swoop in and heavily damage team #5. Meanwhile, team #9 could swoop in to attack one of team #4's cities, since that city's army is away fighting team #5. I see all sorts of possibilites for counter-attacks, counter-counter-attacks, and creative attacking and defense strategies.
yes i want access to other worlds or intra world combat to have great rewards but also great risks

If eternal round is used, I like the idea of logging off at 10 PM to go to sleep, and then when I wake up at 8 AM, logging in to see what happened overnight. Was my team attacked? Were any of my teammates online fighting battles while I slept?

Which brings me to another question... would my team's empire be able to somewhat defend itself from others' attacks even if nobody on my team was online (like if it was 4 AM)? For example, maybe some forts would have automated missile turrets like in Starcraft.
player characters remain in their last location while logged off. you can use various methods as listed earlier in my response to defend things while you arent there.

I hope I understood things correctly. Your game sounds like it has a lot of potential to be very interesting.

reply in yellow.

[Phenoca]

The goals of the game are either extended round, where one group of players must conquer all the worlds, or eternal round where its too difficult for players to enforce their will because the leader characters can't travel to worlds and must rely on subordinates to rule those worlds for them.

This won't happen because of multi-accounting bypassing this rule, just limiting the regular players.

Because trying to expand to a new world is risky, what if your leader defects to another faction or just to found his own empire, power players on old worlds may be hesistant to invest,

I don't understand. You are paying players to make your military?

The game involves a complex crafting system which is integral to gameplay since you cannot buy items from npcs. Further monsters drop only crafting materials and not gold or items.

I take this for-granted nowadays in MMOs, but of course crafting is a good idea. You can't have an in-depth player-driven economy without one.

Sorry... If you want a text-based strategy game play Galactic Fleets or Cosmic Supremacy or GoKriDa (someone made a remake; don't have time to look it up) or Renaissance Kingdoms.

[altarofscience]

This won't happen because of multi-accounting bypassing this rule, just limiting the regular players.
i have many controls for multi accounting. and players who multi will run into problems not being able to play enough on both accounts. it will not be a huge problem in my opinion.


I don't understand. You are paying players to make your military?
because a single character cant get to every world, if he is denied access to a world, he has to finance a vassal to run it for him.


I take this for-granted nowadays in MMOs, but of course crafting is a good idea. You can't have an in-depth player-driven economy without one.
i dont understand this comment. most mmos have loot drops of gold and items. my crafting is more complex than a big time mmo, even vanguard or swg.

Sorry... If you want a text-based strategy game play Galactic Fleets or Cosmic Supremacy or GoKriDa (someone made a remake; don't have time to look it up) or Renaissance Kingdoms.
cosmic supremacy and gal fleets blow. i have the code already for a superior space based browser game but i like my current project more. also space browser games generally dont have crafting. just boring linear tech trees.

reply in yellow

[Phenoca]

i have many controls for multi accounting. and players who multi will run into problems not being able to play enough on both accounts. it will not be a huge problem in my opinion.

Ok.

because a single character cant get to every world, if he is denied access to a world, he has to finance a vassal to run it for him.

And are there systems in place to tax the vassal?

i dont understand this comment. most mmos have loot drops of gold and items. my crafting is more complex than a big time mmo, even vanguard or swg.

Good. I'll have fun researching the crafting-trees and materials wiki. This is a big part of every RPG I play longterm.

cosmic supremacy and gal fleets blow. i have the code already for a superior space based browser game but i like my current project more.

My bad. I thought you were doing a text-based browsergame and was listing-off Persistent Browser Based Strategy Games (PBBSGs) that had various degrees of success. I can no longer say "this feature is unique", because every innovative-idea shows up somewhere else, regardless of whether you thought of it yourself. I've been proven wrong on this opinion several times, but it still gives me the grounds for total skepticism when somebody says "our game is different". I used to play Cosmic Supremacy and Galactic Fleets committedly.

also space browser games generally dont have crafting. just boring linear tech trees.

If you can framework a good crafting-system then you can build a solid gameplay appeal. There are many tech-tree systems which I do not find boring. Unfortunately, my favorites are not browser-based. I tend that sci-fi games tend to have better crafting and PvP systems, but as I've said, I take crafting for-granted because it is already a mainstream feature. I was really looking-forward to the crafting system in Tribonia

[altarofscience]

Ok.


And are there systems in place to tax the vassal?
No, the vassal must choose to send the main player resources from friendship, loyalty, or fear.


Good. I'll have fun researching the crafting-trees and materials wiki. This is a big part of every RPG I play longterm.


My bad. I thought you were doing a text-based browsergame and was listing-off Persistent Browser Based Strategy Games (PBBSGs) that had various degrees of success. I can no longer say "this feature is unique", because every innovative-idea shows up somewhere else, regardless of whether you thought of it yourself. I've been proven wrong on this opinion several times, but it still gives me the grounds for total skepticism when somebody says "our game is different". I used to play Cosmic Supremacy and Galactic Fleets committedly.
it is pbbg. just not in space. i have played many space ones, i really like them.

If you can framework a good crafting-system then you can build a solid gameplay appeal. There are many tech-tree systems which I do not find boring. Unfortunately, my favorites are not browser-based. I tend that sci-fi games tend to have better crafting and PvP systems, but as I've said, I take crafting for-granted because it is already a mainstream feature. I was really looking-forward to the crafting system in Tribonia
my favorite browser game research system is www.war-facts.com its pretty unique in my experience. many of my gameplay features are unique for a pbbg, but other types of games have them. i would like a wow/asheron/eve/ etc AAA MMORPG user interface, but it makes many game aspects more difficult, time consuming and expensive.

any comment on particular aspects of the crafting, multi profession enhancemnets are something i personally have never seen and would like to see, all player made cities are uncommon also and allowing any building to be conquered. city building is not a new feature, or super unique but i implement it pretty differently.

also its rare for games to have a crafting systems with thousands of resources like mine with recipes hidden and traded as a commodity. ie, for players who want to be wizards, they must explore ruins to find words of power, and they can sell spellbooks without giving away their words, which can be hoarded or traded to retain power. similarly, it would be bad practice to give out recipes and such. of course there is no ingame system to enforce intellectual roperty rights. in general mmos want players to trade recipes or they dont even have them.