How do you guys cope with "imbalanced pvp"? (also about Ragnarok Online)

[queenvoo]

im thinking of trying out the free server Valkyrie on Ragnarok Online. I like sprite gfx and the gameworld sounds big and fun.
I'm really interested in trying out the GvG Imperium thing which happenes for 2 hours every week.

What do you guys like or don't like about RO?

Also -- mmohut's review says pvp in RO has imbalances. Wouldn't you guys prefer to play an mmo with less pvp imabalances and constant open GvG (instead of just 2 hours a week). How do you guys feel about pvp imbalances? I guess it is a matter of relative perception - because pvp imbalances might still be good because it encourages levelling up. But I don't like having always zero chance vs one build or one player. How do you guys feel about this?

[Ryukiri]

Classic will get trans and gunslinger/ninja/taekwon in the near future and it's freaking annoying to play e_e

[Exeunt]

PvP is kinda imbalanced on RO.. in my opinion; there's some cards on there that just are meh.. like GTB, GR, Maya, Kiel, OHC, TG's, Hydra, maybe Hatii.. tons more and they're hard as hell to get, with like a 0.01 to 0.001% drop rate. Q_Q

Game was fun in it's time tho, mm xD

[feyte]

My opinion on RO is, it's never good to balance a game around 1v1 PvP. RO is the prime example of this. Instead they base it around GvG where your (min/max-ed) build and role is imbalanced for its specific role, so that when all the classes come together and are represented in suitable quantities in a GvG setting, it becomes perfectly balanced. Balance around 1v1 is bad. WoW tried it, was bad. Their esport setting is still 3v3. Goes to show 1v1 balance just isn't very feasible in a MMO.

If you don't like having zero chances, just roll one of the dps/burst classes. Then you have an equal chance. Be warned though, not everyone duels in PvP. In fact quite often you will see GvG wars or party-based wars in the PvP room. RO is really clan based. And certain classes have huge synergies with each other, sometimes it just isn't worth it PvPing without the other. Note though that every single viable class/role is really important in WoE, and often supporting and defending roles have higher survival priority than all other offensive roles. You will find that sometimes some of the more skilled players are tasked to play the supporting roles instead. A few supporting roles also need much more skill to play than most of the offensive roles.

About the 2hour thing, yeah it's really weird. People mainly just gather resources and have harmless fun during the lull period prior to WoE, or stir drama in forums or in-game about previous or upcoming WoEs. Constant GvG won't work, not really, because WoE is really quite intense, and you can easily burn through a week's worth of resource farming. There are 24/7 party based PvP instances too though; battlegrounds. So it's not like you have to wait for that 2 hours per week. Trust me, once you start getting competitive you won't find it much of a lull between one WoE and the next.

Card and gear imbalance might be a problem for you though. All I can say is get into a top guild, and then it won't be anymore, because such gear is always represented almost equally between all the top guilds, and are always held by the core players of said guilds. When you get better at RO then you will understand it's a whole different ball game when gathering these top end stuff, provided you spend the time to get there. RO isn't a game where you pick up easily and master in a short time actually. It has a pretty steep learning AND mastering curve. Everything starts from getting into one of the WoE-active guilds. They will teach you everything you need to know, and it opens all sorts of doors.

I'll just post 2 videos, one is WoE on iRO and another is on private servers.
*******

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Toby69D60k&feature=plcp
The above is on iRO, I linked it because it's zoomed in, so you can see more specific actions.

[queenvoo]

thanks for posting the videos and for describing what you like about RO's pvp.
it does look fun+really cute and i now better understand why it is better to balance group vs group instead of 1v1.

i guess from my viewpoint, I tend to prefer a game where I do not need to have close relationships to a guild/clan in order to be competent in pvp. Mainly because I tend to drop in and out of the game at random times and also because I prefer not to be disadvantaged by absence of gear. But... defitniely from what you described it does sound very fun.

for the sake of comparison here is a pvp video for Regnum Online which is my current favourite pvp mmo :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3gSk2pWqnw
(forts have been upgraded since then) :-

i would still like to hear more views on pvp balance and discussion. There's so many varieties of games and players out there I'm sure there's much which I do not know.

[janii]

i remember a friends full vit paladin with tao gunka card and 2x hydra card using sacrifice ****** every1
goood times

[Phenoca]

How do you guys cope with "imbalanced pvp"?

Pick a top tier class and learn to play it. Or play different classes until I find a pubstomp class and learn to play it. Or pick an underplayed class.

[Arri]

I wouldn't say spamming AoEs on offense and spamming potions to survive the AoE spam on defense is "balanced". I don't believe RO's GvG is balanced in the slightest: It's all based on who has/can spam the most potions and who has more people willing to spend the entire day fighting over a castle while dying over and over.

Also please don't link to videos from a private server. I know you're trying to help by showing what GvG can be like, but that can easily be done with just the iRO video.

[Ryukiri]

Ragnarok is so boring, pvp arena isn't even used and woe is once a week. leveling seems meaningless and the balance is out of space

[feyte]

I wouldn't say spamming AoEs on offense and spamming potions to survive the AoE spam on defense is "balanced". I don't believe RO's GvG is balanced in the slightest: It's all based on who has/can spam the most potions and who has more people willing to spend the entire day fighting over a castle while dying over and over.

Also please don't link to videos from a private server. I know you're trying to help by showing what GvG can be like, but that can easily be done with just the iRO video.

mmk. Didn't know you guys didn't allow pserver videos o_o

BTW I can see you haven't played WoE according to the top (or even mid) tier metagame. I guess I can understand though, since there aren't many real WoE guilds left, and there weren't even many at RO's peak.

About potions, all top guilds have at least an "unlimited" supply of resources for any particular WoE :/ I mean they would probably hunt 10k worth of resources and might at most (based on above average APM) use 5k? So, nope, not about who has the most potions.

It is balanced because there is a roster to fill for all top guilds; almost every class has at least one build that is integral to the whole guild composition. Sorry, but I believe people who go "oh man, this game isn't balanced because I can't keel him and he can pwn everyone !!11" are really short-sighted. Also, it is evident you don't understand much (or even anything) about WoE if you feel it's all about spamming offensive AoEs and potting them :/

@Ryukiri: You can also use battlegrounds to satisfy your PvP needs :/ And how is leveling meaningless? You're saying other MMOs have more meaningful leveling systems? Lol.

[feyte]

I understand where you guys are coming from I guess (was kinda defensive in my last post), we just have differing opinions on balance.

But kinda sad you guys didn't get to experience top level WoE, bet your opinion will differ greatly then (about RO, at least). Also, something has to be said about a game where some supporting classes require more skill to play than most offensive classes, and are more important in carrying a fight to victory, although they have no shred of offensive power. That alone imo is more of a balance than all classes having equal offensive and defensive power, which is just lazy and a bit pointless (think: starcraft, where all viable units serve different roles, some offensive, some defensive, and yet all are equally important. Playing RO as a player is kinda like playing a specific unit, I guess).

Too bad it isn't easy getting into top level WoE; the APM required is much higher than the average game, and you actually have to use all 27 available hotkeys.

PS: It's no joke when I say it requires a ton of APM, the only games I've played where I had more APM was starcraft and some music games, and I've played tons of games.

[darkness35]

Unfortunately I played Pserver RO since at the time quests were just disorganized when I played. WoE and everything else was really the only reason why I played.

[Exeunt]

I WoE'd when I was like 12-14 on iRO Chaos about 6-4 years ago. Man it was fun buffing up with your guild to run through a castle and take it over until soon as you enter the castle you get ***** by Storm Gust, Meteor Storm and/or lag out of the game by Lord of Vermilion.

Yeah. Fun. ;; get to the Emperium and trying to break it then get ambushed by 40 players spamming aoes or single target nukes n' spams. I kinda hate it now, because how small the areas are where you fight in .. guess this is because I've been playing too much Eden Eternal and the "WoE" there is much better imo.

[SorenEmblem]

I simply don't PvP if it's imbalanced/not fun. I'm generally not a PvP kind of guy anyway.

[feyte]

haha yeah woe was definitely just a lagfest and meatfest back then, especially with all the small ol' woe1.0 castle rooms. we could have like 200 ppl in that small small room, and everyone spamming / getting hit by AoEs.

my guild (played in ero, not iro), had 4 sub-guilds, and one of those sub-guilds was fully composed of champions, which held a sweeper role. was pretty funny. and then the main guild which had all the unkillable core members stacked to the deck with mvp/god items. u definitely had to switch off effects if you even wanted to woe "decently".

woe has evolved a LOT since then though. not sure if any of you have played woe:2nd edition, because that completely overturned the whole woe metagame. it became tactical pitched battles instead of the same ol' precast and rush.