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Thread: Quick questions regarding generic mmorpg classes

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    Default Quick questions regarding generic mmorpg classes

    So just a few questions:
    Basically, I want to relate classes in mmorpgs to classes in games of other genre.
    For example, comparing rogues, warriors, clerics, and mages to classes in team fortress 2.
    1) What I want to know, is what classes would be able to fit inside the rogue/warrior category? I know that many classes can fit in more than one class.
    For example:
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...aracterClasses
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...dventurerIsYou
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...aracterClasses
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ghterMageThief

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...assEquivalents
    Each of these pages has something slightly different regarding the relationships between the two sets of classes.
    2) In addition, what exaclty is magic in the modern context? Is it just technology and science? Which means engineer and alchemist classes would be mages and wouldn't fit inside the rogue/warrior category? Would they be able to fit?
    3) As for ranger classes, how come the beastmaster class is also called a ranger? If they rely on pets as their primary source of combat? Don't rangers generally use bows and arrows?
    4) Would the guy in charge of mortars or using rocket launcher be able to fit inside the rogue/warrior category?
    5) Where would the merchant/artisan/diplomat classes fall in?

    thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanks132 View Post
    when would the bard not be a rogue? I see them mostly as a musician and wonder why they're a subclass of rogue lol
    What do you think about artisans/merchant type classes like in ragnarok online.

    Typically they are like support mages but in Ragnarok Online and Final Fantasy XIV they are a branch of Archers (which is odd because in like all the other FF games they are support mages). There might be a few other instances but that's the only ones I can think of atm.

    In the old school style games like Etrian Oddessy and Unchained Blades, the Troubadours and Mari who use harps as a main weapon are support buff/debuffers.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashis View Post
    No, in what I meant by using Star Ocean as an example before was that in that game, Symbology takes the place of Magic. In that series Symbology is actually a form of science used though tattooed symbols on the individual that draw out latent powers. It has nothing to do with the individual being a scientist or not. In fact in Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Bacchus D-79 an actual scientist, cannot even use Symbology. He's a Cyborg who turned himself into something akin to what Tony Stark's suit is like. And in that game he is a Ranged Physical Tank with decent offensive capabilities, which is more than likely would Iron Man would be if he were in an RPG.

    There are a number of games that take a scientific approach to supernatural abilities, like with the Parasite Eve series' Aya Brea being able to use magic in the form of Parasite Energy from a symbiotic relationship with her mitochondria or Star Wars with the Midi-chlorians and the Force. Yes, science in games set in the future is often responsible for some people having abilities beyond what normal humans have and what gives the link to form the Mage archetype, but a character being a scientist does not mean that they automatically fall into a specific archetype.

    What locks a character into an archetype as far as RPG's go is their abilities in relation to combat, not their background story. That seems to be where your confusion is coming from. You wouldn't start determining Spiderman's stats in an RPG based on his Photography skills as Peter Parker because that would be ridiculous. You'd judge them based on his abilities as Spiderman. Background story might be secondary criteria in determining statistics sometimes, which is why you see things like a pure melee character having particularly higher intelligence than other melee characters. No matter how smart a character is though, even if he's a genius who makes elaborate contraptions, if he goes out and punches people in the face or cleaves them in two with a sword as his main way of solving problems, he's gonna be a warrior.
    thanks that cleared up a lot of things.
    1) Regarding the judging from background, that's where I was confused with the say some games classified their archetypes lol. For example, in dungeon fighters the cleric looks way more like a warrior. As in ragnarok online, where some shaolin monk is called an acolyte along with the priest class lol. If we were talking a bout a character like phoenix wright, what kind of archetype would he be? A rogue because he's skilled at talking?
    2) Why would modern day science not be magic though? From what I read about it, they're developing a lot of "magic" kind of stuff from medieval days such as time traveling and teleportation. What are alchemists? I think of them more as scientists so why would they be classified as mages if they use chemistry to develop their poisons and explosives and such.
    So this article is innacurate? http://****************/blogs/elessa...sses-of-MMORPG
    they're not letting me post the link, but if you google mmorpg main classes, there's an article on mmorpg.com regarding it.
    3) And in league of legends, all those scientist type champions like heimerdinger and ziggs are classified as scientists.
    4) Just with the links I posted in the op, they all have different takes on relationships among the classes. If you look at their alignment with the classes in tf2, they differ from link to link. What's that the result of? Isn't there a defnitive answer to what classes goes to which class? If not, would there be a defintive answer as to whether a class belogns in the rogue/warrior category if it is a hybrid?
    5) It does make sense to classify based on their combat. But then comes in the question of fluff vs crunch. For example, if the mage uses magic to stealth or become invisible, we all know that they are a mage but, their combat style is that of a rogue. Would it still fall under the rogue/warrior category? Even then, is role in combat the best way to categorize it? After all, warriors and rogues both can play multiple roles. I've seen rogues just play utility roles disarming traps and picklocking doors or scouting the dungeon for the team. Warriors could be Warlords which command the team and play as a support role buffing the team as well as dps and tank roles. However, if we just look at fluff that wouldn't make sense at all either. In a shooter setting, everyone is a trained soldier even the medic.
    what do you think about this?

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    [QUOTE=Kashis;2863568]1) There's a reason for a class like a Monk being associated under the priest archetype. Monks often undergo spiritual training along with their physical training to gain the abilities they have. It's why a lot of monks have healing abilities in RPGs, but a majority of the time they come second to their physical ones. The word "Acolyte" is also synonymous with the word "disciple", which is a word often used with clergy and martial artists.

    The kind of archetypes we are talking about do not typically apply to games like Phoenix Wright though lol. You might as well be asking me what kind of archetype Jack McCoy from Law & Order would fit. If your goal is to give random characters RPG attributes it would be better to attribute them to

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    [QUOTE=Kashis;2863978]1) From what you are describing, they are still assisting in combat though. The ability to set up or disable traps is a common rogue trait along with and scouting, which is pretty much what scouts do in Valkyria Chronicles. That's still in relation to combat though.


    If you are talking about turning a soccer player into an RPG character that's a different issue. The game Soccer Superstars, made by gamevil, is a soccer RPG. The game Super Dodge Ball Advance turned the game Dodgeball into an RPG as well if you want something to look at to see how a sports game can be turned into an RPG.

    2) ok lol

    [COLOR=#000000]3)Their main method of attacking and usual vulnerability in RPG style gam

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    WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING THESE THREADS? YOU TROLL LOL.

    It is what it is. You can obviously answer these questions yourself It looks like you're trying to group classes over a wide range of games into a pre-set group of classes that applies to every game which doesn't exist.

    This pre-set you're trying to make sense of... there is no such thing/it doesn't exist. Developers make it what it is, and it is what it is. Not all people agree on what trait belongs to which class, so possibilities are endless. Too many factors; stats, traits, characteristics, equipment, skills, race, etc. etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyrax View Post
    WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING THESE THREADS? YOU TROLL LOL.

    It is what it is. You can obviously answer these questions yourself It looks like you're trying to group classes over a wide range of games into a pre-set group of classes that applies to every game which doesn't exist.

    This pre-set you're trying to make sense of... there is no such thing/it doesn't exist. Developers make it what it is, and it is what it is. Not all people agree on what trait belongs to which class, so possibilities are endless. Too many factors; stats, traits, characteristics, equipment, skills, race, etc. etc.
    yeah but it just doesn't make sense. He's saying that a sniper is a mage solely by crunch. If you look at infamous solely by crunch its a warrior definitely not a mage. In addition, rogues can be glass cannons as well, so snipers can be rogues in certain games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyrax View Post
    First of all, that TV tropes link is about D&D, not Battlefield 3. Entirely different games and entirely different skillset/rules/system.
    Second, Battlefield 3 engineers are just engineers, no one classified them as a mage or anything else. They're just based off of real life engineers.

    It is what it is. It doesn't have to be entirely correct. It's just the way the designers intend the class to be built. There is no absolute rule as to what class group the engineer belongs to. But since you're talking about D&D, engineers probably belong to the mage class because they are intelligent and deal explosive(fire magic) damage. Those traits are probably why people put D&D engineers into the D&D mage class.
    but then how come he stated that engineers are usually warriors or rogues?
    btw, I posted the wrong link its this one : http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...assEquivalents

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    I'm serious... Everyone seems to have a different opinion. He concludes that a sniper is a mage. But on other threads that I made, other people asserted that a sniper is a rogue. Is there a definite answer? All I want to know is to know whether something would be able to fit in the rogue/warrior category.

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    Is there any practical applications of rogues/warriors?
    Is it even possible to write a paper on this?

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    Go write an article and publish it in the Journal for Idiots with Too Much Time on their Hands

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