Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Relationship between fantasy mmorpgs and modern class based shooters?

  1. #1
    Orc's Breathmint Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    114
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Relationship between fantasy mmorpgs and modern class based shooters?

    So given the rise of class-based shooter mmo's such as team fortress, valkyria chronicles, star wars battlefront 3, borderlands 2, battlefield 3, etc.., I've been wondering about how such classes correspond to the classes in class-based fantasy mmorpgs. Given the basic classes, rogues, warriors, healers/clerics, and mages, how do they correspond to the classes in shooter mmorpgs?
    For example in valkyria chronicles, I see how healers, rogues, and warriors fit in, but where do mages fit in? In team fortress 2, it's obvious the healer is the medic. The infantry, spies, demoman,.... all fit in within the rogue/warrior classes. But where do the mages fit in? The engineers?
    This raises the question of what exactly defines the mage class rather than simply magic? Are there are other things that define such a class? We can label it as squishy and dps class, but at the same time, so are rogues?
    So what class in class-based shooter games correspond with mage classes?
    What do you guys think?
    1) Say that you like the rogue and warrior classes. Since there's the general concept of it, can one relate this to other classes in other class-based shooters such as team fortress 2? How would each class fit?
    2) How would this relate, and what would we have to look at to relate the classes? I understand that there's no solid definition of a class and that everyone sees a class in tf2 a different way thus corresponding it to a different archetype. Thus, would the best method to be look at a specific class's attributes and traits and compare them?
    3) what generally classifies the mage? Would ranged glass cannons definitely be a rogue? tbh does role really play a part in this? Like, rogues/warriors together can pretty much play any role imo. Like what exactly is the difference mechanic wise between the ranger and mages? In some games, the mages can kite and the rangers suck at it. In other games it's the reverse. So it just seems to me that they basically play the same role.
    It seems silly to just classify a modern soldier a mage just because they can deal ranged aoe damage.
    4) How can any research be done on rogues/warrior classes though?
    Do they have any practical applications other than for pure entertainment?

  2. #2
    Codename: Duchess Reputation: 195
    olaph's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Scolding Woodhouse
    Posts
    11,551
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    For the love of god use paragraphs!

  3. #3
    FabianN's Fanatic Reputation: 480
    TreyTrey12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn Center, Minnesota
    Posts
    3,914
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Basically its like this.

    Warriors usually are the "tankers" in shooters, usually they sacrifice speed and mobility for armor and more life. So they kinda outlast most people.

    Rogues are generally light armored classes, usually based on burst damage, so they always are equipped with either sniper rifles, or shotguns. Or both.

    Medics..are clerics. Usually the most rounded classes, with the ability to heal. Usually developers make these classes really prominent among the other choices to get people to play them more to influence group play mechanics and team support.

    Mages, is a tricky one, but if you look at what a mage is in every game, a glass cannon, it would simply be a rogue based archetype that combines speed with damage. But if you look at indepth, a mage is usually support classes for all games, in WOW They were the main source of crowd control, made food for the group, and gave free teleports !

    So essentially, a mage could just be the class that supports, like engineers. Since their power is not in their weapon, but their abilities.

  4. #4
    42 Reputation: 90
    SqueezyTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    949
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    I always used a rogue-like class when I played Black Ops. Lightweight Pro + Marathon Pro + Tactical Knife. Could take people out faster than they could shoot most of the time.

  5. #5
    Orc's Breathmint Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    114
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TreyTrey12 View Post
    Basically its like this.

    Warriors usually are the "tankers" in shooters, usually they sacrifice speed and mobility for armor and more life. So they kinda outlast most people.

    Rogues are generally light armored classes, usually based on burst damage, so they always are equipped with either sniper rifles, or shotguns. Or both.

    Medics..are clerics. Usually the most rounded classes, with the ability to heal. Usually developers make these classes really prominent among the other choices to get people to play them more to influence group play mechanics and team support.

    Mages, is a tricky one, but if you look at what a mage is in every game, a glass cannon, it would simply be a rogue based archetype that combines speed with damage. But if you look at indepth, a mage is usually support classes for all games, in WOW They were the main source of crowd control, made food for the group, and gave free teleports !

    So essentially, a mage could just be the class that supports, like engineers. Since their power is not in their weapon, but their abilities.
    thanks. yeah, it seems pretty arbitrary. Like one of my main problems is what exactly is the role? Basically my goal is to be able to figure if something is a rogue/warrior. Couldn't they play many roles? Like I've seen warriors as warlords which are sort of commander type which plays more of a support role? And guardian type warriors too. And they've played dps roles and rogues can be rangers which may be glass cannons too. Lol yeah, mages are pretty much the one that's tripping me up right now. I listed it down below:

    1) so there isn't really a definite answer whether something is a rogue/warrior? that's all I want to know lol. How to efficiently be able to categorize something as a rogue/warrior class. I mainly see rogues warriors clerics and mages as the 4 base traditional archetypes.

    2)The main trouble I'm having with this kind of thing is with the mage archetype since it confuses me a lot. I mean, what exactly is magic? I hear a lot of things, some say technology, other say only psionics.

    3) And also, the significance of a class's role. Like I stated before, many classes can play multiple roles, like I've seen rogues/warriors all play some sort of support, dps, tank, and glass cannon. In addition, mages can be anything like in skyrim. So what exactly defines what a mage is? Or like in guild wars 2, there's the elementalist, necromancer and mesmer.And also, like for example in worldoftanks there's 5 types of tanks. Even though artillery seems to be the best fit for a mage, like I said before with all the arbitrariness of the roles, how would we know what is a mage? That's my primary problem lol.And would that mean it cant be a rogue/warrior

    4) And rangers can be glass cannons as well right? Why are only mages only thought of as glass cannons? Even then, I don't really see how they're only glass cannons. Like if you look at the perk trees in skyrim they can pretty much be anything.


    5) And one more thing, about the significance of crunch vs fluff. Are they both important? Like some only say that crunch matters, while other say that we have to take both into account when relating classes cross-genre.
    6) And lastly, can we compare classes even when it's not an rpg? Like even when they're no separate classes and they feature just one character? Like for example burnout paradise. It's just cars. We just characterize them as rogues because they rely on agility and speed? In such situations do we just classify based on the overall picture of the classes?

    Lol the only thing I've read over and over is the thread on warriors and clerics, those are the only quesitons I have problems with.
    Is there any practical applications of rogues/warriors?
    Is it even possible to write a paper on this?

    thanks.

  6. #6
    Illgamez Insomniac Reputation: 132
    Viney1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,238
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    I think the idea behind this topic is very nice.

    I love the Gunner classes since I like FPSes. I don't play many FPS, so I get my fill that way. I also like heavy weapons, and/or dual pistols. I wish FPS would incorporate a Dual Pistol sort of thing. :P

    Anyways. In most FPS, I tend to go for Sniper (regardless of how bad I am :P), so that's why I tend to go with the weapons that deal the most ranged physical damage. If there is an Archer in an MMO, I'll usually pick it, unless there is also a Gunner class.

    In Dragon Nest, I always go the Academic -> Engineer path. I just love the idea of Engineers, turrets, etc.

  7. #7
    Orc's Breathmint Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    114
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    [QUOTE=TreyTrey12;2869635]In order to categorize what a rogue and warrior is, and what differentiates them from one another is to simply look at their own /roles/ as they are portrayed in fantasy.
    A warrior, is generally a combatant who can wield heavy armor and weapons. They are there to be seen, they do not deal with sneaky sneaky type warfare. In video games, warriors often are the "tank", or commander. You will rarely ever see a warrior using a dagger.

    A rogue is like a warrior, but what they lack in armor, they make up for in dexterity and speed. They do not use heavy armor, because you can't be sneaky sneaky wearing 100 pounds of plated shiny armor. They generally deal with stealth based attacks, or poison.
    You can easily, categorize the two from on

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •