Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 38 of 38

Thread: Mis-conceptions of MMORPGs

  1. #26
    Sandman's Slave Reputation: 26
    neothaka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,806
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    China is in general a lot cheaper than the west, that's the reason why a lot of western items are made in china.

    Next to that, China is one of the biggest countries in the world, the poverty scale in china is obviously a lot bigger than in f.e. Belgium, because in absolute numbers, china has 120x as much inhabitants compared to belgium, so absolute poverty numbers in china are bigger. That, however, doesn't mean china prefers f2p games over P2P, because they're "poor".

    Check a HDI-map, the areas where poverty overruled are the outskirts and western china, mountain tribers, and so on. That is also the place where gaming isn't popular or known at all. Gaming industry happens in Beijing and the eastern districts. The poverty ratio in the south, west and centre of china is a lot less than in the outskirts.

    Blaming the f2p phenomenon in china on poverty is a false statement, the poverty regions rarely even come in contact with games.

    The second reason is because of the custom of having f2p mmorpg's. If chinese gaming industrials suddenly changed their mind and started making everything P2P, they'd notice a severe lack of intrest in their games.

  2. #27
    Firor's Fury Reputation: 78
    darknight55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,021
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    While RPG stands for role-playing games where a human-player through an avatar plays the role of a character (usually a hero) through a story arc/improvised scenario within a fantasy world.
    And there you have it, meaning of RPG.
    1)Human-player playing an avatar
    2)Avatar has a role of a character ( USUALLY but NOT necessarily a hero )
    3)Character is in a story/scenario within a fantasy world

    -MMOAPGs (Massive Multiplayer Online Action Playing Games) are not MMORPGs. Lineage and its babies are not a 'real' MMORPG.
    Now lets look at games like Planeshift / WoW ( RP Servers ),
    1)Played by humans? - YES
    2)Humans control an avatar? -YES
    3)Avatar has a role? -YES
    4)Character is in a story/scenario? -YES

    And you have it a REAL MMORPG!! IT EXIST OMG!
    Mmorpg exists if players role-play. It exists once players start to roleplay. Most mmos have a story and players can choose to play along the story or be silent and explore the game on their own. Ever played a rpg where you walked into a bar/restaurant and you see NPCs you cannot talk to? Well in mmorpg if You are the person roleplaying and u see other players not roleplaying, you can consider those players non-talking NPCs.

    They are linear, do not have content, players do not influence the world through the storyline, and the persistent world is stagnant.
    Games like lineage or even WoW: BC , PW , and some others, allow player-controlled towns. That makes some territorial controls, so the world isnt stagnant, not to mention updates for the mmos.

    -MMORPG =\= f2p
    There are some great f2p MMORPGs out there (Mabinogi), but true MMORPGs are p2p, because the company needs the fund to develop regular content updates.
    Cash Shops? Most f2p games have cash shops. They are called Free To Play but players can CHOOSE whether to buy extra items using cash. So they are not EXACTLY free to play. Thats where the funds come from. Not to mention wat Acclaim is doing now, In-Game-Advertising, thats where the fund comes from.

    -MMORPG =\= soloable
    If u can solo a MMORPG why not just go play a single player game.
    No 1 is able to solo an mmorpg all the way. At a certain point of the game, a player will HAVE to party up because soloing will be impossible.


    Okay I'm sorry for saying Chinese people are poor, but most of them are poor which is why they choose f2p games. budda or w/e chooses to ignor that fact.
    Okay, lets look at the situation.
    1)You cant read/type english well. You have f2p games in chinese ( which you are good at). Which game will you play, p2p english or f2p chinese?
    2)2 games are out in the market, 1 is 1 year old and p2p, another is brand new and f2p. The 1 in p2p is probably better developed and stable. You like to be one of the engineers of a game, which game will you choose?

    Now lets define poor in your case : Poor - having little or no money, goods, or other means of support.
    To have "Little" you need a comparison. Are you comparing the income of a chinese worker in china to another in US?
    Lets say the chinese worker earns US$100 a month. In his village he can buy a comfortable meal and live off the $100 for a month or two. The worker in US earns $500 a month but spent it in less than 2 weeks. Whos poorer? The chinese worker or the US worker?

  3. #28
    Cloud13's Clown Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,830
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by M1nGs3N4yuk1 View Post
    Why are people even argueing in this thread? This is simply his opinion of what he thinks is an mmorpg. I don't get why people are trying to change his opinion? It's not like he is going to change just because you point out all these things.

    Move along now and let this thread fall to page 2 where no one looks at it


    And how in the world did the topic go from mmorpg to poor chinese people?
    Oh god I read through all that >.< Anyways, budda is just trying to stir up a conversation and he is right that there are some mmorpgs that doesn't exactly have much role playing. There are very few good storylines in games. Nostale and Mabinogi have a good storyline.

    Also, drop the subject on the chinese =_= It's annoying...

  4. #29
    McFox Sandwich Reputation: 21
    Midclaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    450
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    I sort-of agree with you on the solo part. If a MMORPG is soloable the whole way through, then you should just go play Skies of Arcadia

  5. #30
    春光乍泄 Reputation: 193
    Raiyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Iguazu Falls
    Posts
    13,558
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    I don't agree with Buddha's first post. My reasons are all found in Darkknight's post.



    While RPG stands for role-playing games where a human-player through an avatar plays the role of a character (usually a hero) through a story arc/improvised scenario within a fantasy world.
    And there you have it, meaning of RPG.
    1)Human-player playing an avatar
    2)Avatar has a role of a character ( USUALLY but NOT necessarily a hero )
    3)Character is in a story/scenario within a fantasy world

    -MMOAPGs (Massive Multiplayer Online Action Playing Games) are not MMORPGs. Lineage and its babies are not a 'real' MMORPG.
    Now lets look at games like Planeshift / WoW ( RP Servers ),
    1)Played by humans? - YES
    2)Humans control an avatar? -YES
    3)Avatar has a role? -YES
    4)Character is in a story/scenario? -YES


    And you have it a REAL MMORPG!! IT EXIST OMG!
    Mmorpg exists if players role-play. It exists once players start to roleplay. Most mmos have a story and players can choose to play along the story or be silent and explore the game on their own. Ever played a rpg where you walked into a bar/restaurant and you see NPCs you cannot talk to? Well in mmorpg if You are the person roleplaying and u see other players not roleplaying, you can consider those players non-talking NPCs.

  6. #31
    Bongo Crazy Kong Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    228
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    There is a distinction between role play and class play.

    In games such as Lineage, PW, 2Moons, etc etc, you class play. You pick a class, and its stuck with you forever from the beginning to the end. The very nature of that character, in other words its 'role' never changes. If you pick a healer, you'll always have to be a healer through and through. In these games, the player has no choice or power to change their character's roles. They can choose skill trees, equipment and such, but these changes are merely superficial, and hardly compensates for the lack of Roleplaying content in these games.
    In this sense, permanent class systems and skill tree system kills roleplay.

    Roleplaying is a very complex system of characterizations. Essentially it involves human players to take on alternative personas aka alter egos within an imagined space. It involves choices, that affect and develop the playing character's personality trait. In MMORPGs focused on RP, whenever a player makes choice, he/she is not merely choosing whether he/she'll be using lightning attacks at level 50, but rather personality traits such as whether her alter ego is good/evil, brave/coward, just/shrewd etc etc.

    Furthermore many Korean/Chinese MMORPG titles are conspicuous by in their lack of a coherent over-arching storyline. Yes they all have a storyline, but it has no impact on the game whatsoever. Its background information that can be totally ignored. In fact, in most of these games you can grind to level 100 without doing any quest.

    In a true RPG, the storyline is forced upon the player, you can not progress without advancing through the storyline. In some RPGs, the storyline takes the form of an pre-set epic, in other RPGs the storyline is dynamic and endings are determined by the choices a player makes during their journey. But what they share in common is the immersive story-telling magic that forces a player to advance through the game in sync with the unraveling of a storyline.

    If the content of a MMORPG can be accessed without any need to advance through a storyline then its not a MMO'RPG'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiyne View Post
    I don't agree with Buddha's first post. My reasons are all found in Darkknight's post.


    And you have it a REAL MMORPG!! IT EXIST OMG!
    Mmorpg exists if players role-play. It exists once players start to roleplay. Most mmos have a story and players can choose to play along the story or be silent and explore the game on their own. Ever played a rpg where you walked into a bar/restaurant and you see NPCs you cannot talk to? Well in mmorpg if You are the person roleplaying and u see other players not roleplaying, you can consider those players non-talking NPCs.

    Roleplay and class play are different
    In MMORPGS player play 'roles' (charaterizations, personas, alter egos.)

    In MMOAPGS players play classes (knight, mage, healer)

    the word role when used in the context of 'roleplay' does not mean the same thing as the everyday use of the word role thats synonymous with the notion of job, class, function.

  7. #32
    春光乍泄 Reputation: 193
    Raiyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Iguazu Falls
    Posts
    13,558
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    The thing is, who cares? Pretty much any MMO with RPG elements are classified under MMORPGs. You create a character, you play a role in the game, as just another Rogue/Warrior/Hunter, whatever. Role play doesn't specificly have to be all DnD-style with proper talk and all that. In your first post, you listen UO, EQ, SWG and Saga of Ryzom as MMORPGs, but I don't see how players affect the world in those games? Doesn't that make those games not 'real' mmorpgs?

    If you want to nit pick so much on these kinda things, then Face of Makind is a real MMORPG.

    Also, about another post of yours.

    MMORPG is a concept, you can never have an 'ideal' MMORPG as such, but several games on the current market go close

    WoW/DaoC/Final Fantasy/EQ/LOTR/WAR/AoC - these titles are more RPG orientated. They focus on giving players a feeling of embarking on a epic journey. the same feeling one gets from playing a great single-player RPG. Their storylines tend to be very specific (class specific, race specific) and attempts to re-create the same RP feel of single player RPGs within a MMO platform.

    EvE/SWG pre-NGE/UO/Entropia/Ryzom/PotBS - these games tend to focus on the MMO aspect. With a player-driven economy and a player-driven storyline at the heart. They tend to have very broad storyline arc, or a scenario to be more precise. The rest of the story is mostly player driven through conflicts between large guilds.
    Can't the same be said for 1 game in the other category?

    You say UO is more to the MMO side, but the same can be said for the role-playing in that game. Many people roleplay in UO too. WoW has a player-run economy with its auction house and how can you even list WAR under a category when its not even released yet?

  8. #33
    Wario’s Bad Accent Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    497
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    I read like 25% of it before I scrolled down and realized how much more I had to go.

    So here's what I have to say: mmorpgs die. Live with it.

  9. #34
    Wand of !!!!!!11!!! Power Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Somewhere far far away in Photoshop world...
    Posts
    737
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Do you ever get tired of these mindless debates? You barged in and posted a topic saying how the present day MMORPGs is actually fake, and the argument of misconceptions and proverty ensues. Amazing, to you at least, but not really. But it's dumb that you had actually to post that topic, you have options not to, but you did. It showed you need a wall of text to prove how good you are in proving us wrong of our conceptions towards MMORPGs. But in the end, your mind is confounded with the question, why make such a big deal out of MMORPGs?

    People play them for fun. For me, it's slow and horrendously slow to go through the storyline (provided if the storyline is long enough, yeah NWN2 is one example), i don't want to do every freakin' quests there is to advance through. I just want to bash up mobs and backstab people in PvP.

    Just play the games, stop whining/debating/arguing/complaining.

  10. #35
    Cloud13's Clown Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,830
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whist View Post
    I read like 25% of it before I scrolled down and realized how much more I had to go.

    So here's what I have to say: mmorpgs die. Live with it.
    ...That's is hardly related to the topic XP

    So, I've got one question for you buddha, what would make a true mmorpg?

  11. #36
    42 Reputation: 10
    technolyze's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Modesto,Cali
    Posts
    920
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    some of buddha's statements are true.
    if you choose to solo in an MMORPG, then that would take away the purpose of the MMO part, since all your really doing is RPGing and not connecting to the "online" aspect of the game such as communicating with the community, e.g. partying.

  12. #37
    OnRPG Elite Member! Reputation: 167
    cyber7chink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Missouri USA
    Posts
    9,598
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by technolyze View Post
    some of buddha's statements are true.
    if you choose to solo in an MMORPG, then that would take away the purpose of the MMO part, since all your really doing is RPGing and not connecting to the "online" aspect of the game such as communicating with the community, e.g. partying.
    Honenstly your kinda wrong, along with the OP.

    Many people solo in MMORPGs but they still use it for the community features. You have more than the party system to able to communicate with the other players.

    I prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why dont I just play a single player RPG? Cause it lacks several things I enjoy.

    1. competitive economy
    2. guilds
    3. If you do know you cant solo this or that, you know have the chance of getting help one way or the other.

    Now to the OP's farse.

    First lets go with some definitions. All definitions are taken from this well established company: Merriam-Webster

    conceive

    Main Entry: con·ceive
    Pronunciation: k&n-'sEv
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): con·ceived; con·ceiv·ing
    Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French conceivre, from Latin concipere to take in, conceive, from com- + capere to take -- more at HEAVE
    transitive verb
    1 a : to become pregnant with (young) <conceive a child> b : to cause to begin : ORIGINATE <a project conceived by the company's founder>
    2 a : to take into one's mind <conceive a prejudice> b : to form a conception of : IMAGINE <a badly conceived design>
    3 : to apprehend by reason or imagination : UNDERSTAND <unable to conceive his reasons>
    4 : to have as an opinion <I cannot conceive that he acted alone>
    intransitive verb
    1 : to become pregnant
    2 : to have a conception -- usually used with of <conceives of death as emptiness>
    synonym see THINK
    - con·ceiv·er noun
    conception

    Main Entry: con·cep·tion
    Pronunciation: k&n-'sep-sh&n
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English concepcioun, from Anglo-French concepcion, from Latin conception-, conceptio, from concipere
    1 a (1) : the process of becoming pregnant involving fertilization or implantation or both (2) : EMBRYO, FETUS b : BEGINNING <joy had the like conception in our eyes -- Shakespeare>
    2 a : the capacity, function, or process of forming or understanding ideas or abstractions or their symbols b : a general idea : CONCEPT c : a complex product of abstract or reflective thinking d : the sum of a person's ideas and beliefs concerning something
    3 : the originating of something in the mind
    synonym see IDEA
    - con·cep·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective
    - con·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective
    exist

    Main Entry: ex·ist
    Pronunciation: ig-'zist
    Function: intransitive verb
    Etymology: Latin exsistere to come into being, exist, from ex- + sistere to stand, stop; akin to Latin stare to stand -- more at STAND
    1 a : to have real being whether material or spiritual <did unicorns exist> <the largest galaxy known to exist> b : to have being in a specified place or with respect to understood limitations or conditions <strange ideas existed in his mind>
    2 : to continue to be <racism still exists in society>
    3 a : to have life or the functions of vitality <we cannot exist without oxygen> b : to live at an inferior level or under adverse circumstances <the hungry existing from day to day>
    Now by those definitions, the OP is incorrect. Here we go........


    Quote Originally Posted by buddhabeads View Post
    well what i said was "MMORPG is a concept, you can never have an 'ideal' MMORPG as such,"
    MMORPG is a broad term that classifies what genre a game is. The definition of what RPG and MMORPG are very different. But there are certain traits that do crossover into both.

    Developers start with an idea and then create it into something that can be conceived by the players. So in truth, to the developer, their conception of what they developed is in fact, ideal. Due to the broad term of what an MMORPG is, it does exist in this category.

    To put it simple to the OP, the the conception/ideal is based on the developer's thoughts of what a MMORPG should be.


    To the OP, your misconceptions of what a MMORPG and RPG starts with your failure to understand the definitions of what you are talking about.

    Please understand, you are talking to a person who has played RPGs almost since their beginnings. I have seen them evolve from the minature based game they once were into the single player RPG and MMORPGs they are now. I do know the difference and understand what defines both genre. You seem to have misunderstood the definiton of what both actually mean.

    Now in the terms of existence..... basically your "chair theory", you failed. Only those who are desperate to win something they know they lost would compare what is real to what is fiction. You "chair thoery" is moot.

  13. #38
    Cloud's Hair Spray Reputation: 10

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    69
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Just finished reading the first post and I have to admit it was nice. It's not something I would've really thought about if you hadn't pointed it out...but yeah, what you said does make sense.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •