Zeit Geist (a discussion)

[Deimos]

Most of you might have already seen this, but for what its worth here it is again. Its two hours so you might wanna set aside some time.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm


In all honesty if you havent seen this then i urge you to watch it, even if only to formulate your own opinions against it.

I dont agree with everthing discussed here and i know that there is even more to be considered but i feel this is a starting point.

when you have the time watch it all the way through, you wont be disappointed, perhaps disillusioned but not disappointed.

as far as internet propaganda goes..... this is a must see, even for sceptics.

[Xenonight2]

It reeks of bullshit and ignorance, and manipulation of evidence.

Once I saw the part where it said "Jesus was born on December 24th," I turned it off right then and there. The guy who made this is a jackass who can't even bother to check if his facts are true.

We don't know when Jesus was born - we simply celebrate it on the Dec. 24th. In fact, many historians and theologians think he was born in the summer months because of the many passages in the Bible describing how things were like around the time Jesus was born. (I.e. the shepherds were out in the fields; minor details like that.)

If he can't get something so simple like that correct, I doubt he can think that the governments are all controlled by space aliens or whatever other equally untrue bullshit he can pull out of his ass.

Conspiracy theories are for those too ignorant to think for themselves, or look at things rationally and critically and scientifically. I put them on a level lower than homeotherapists.

[Rokurosv]

It proposes interesting theories, but they're just that. Anyone who beleives blindly in the movie is a fool. I didn't buy the Jesus part. The 9/11 and the bankers part was more beleivable.

[Deimos]

It reeks of bullshit and ignorance, and manipulation of evidence.

Once I saw the part where it said "Jesus was born on December 24th," I turned it off right then and there. The guy who made this is a jackass who can't even bother to check if his facts are true.

We don't know when Jesus was born - we simply celebrate it on the Dec. 24th. In fact, many historians and theologians think he was born in the summer months because of the many passages in the Bible describing how things were like around the time Jesus was born. (I.e. the shepherds were out in the fields; minor details like that.)

If he can't get something so simple like that correct, I doubt he can think that the governments are all controlled by space aliens or whatever other equally untrue bullshit he can pull out of his ass.

Conspiracy theories are for those too ignorant to think for themselves, or look at things rationally and critically and scientifically. I put them on a level lower than homeotherapists.

im assuming you didnt watch the whole thing

admittedly i switched off after the first 20 mins but i forced myself to watch the rest just so i could lambast it

i propose you do the same if you havent already done... watch it all

[Serix]

seriously deimos...

the only Zeit Geist with ANY form of truth is this one:

[Jakuza]

It makes me want to think of things that I never thought I would. I guess some things are best kept secret.

[Norrin Radd]

Boring.

The banking section is interesting, but it's nothing I hadn't studied by myself. The rest is bullshit.

[Ronin]

as far as internet propaganda goes..... this is a must see, even for sceptics.

The more interesting question is what the opposite has to offer.

About the whole 9/11 issue, which is as far as I have come till now:
Neither is the free press careful enough or competent enough to hinder put to forth all the evidence used in this (hardly so it actively provides it's share), nor are any of their general customers.

That means everyone in this thread, each of us excluding several small pieces of fact, that we might feel able to pass our judgement on.
So for example all technical arguments I hear about the destruction of the towers are false.
The still make it into the news, if the creator of this took the time and used real news-articles or just manufactured it, I don't know (I just found the sources section, I am not sure if I realy want to waste my time on this);
What stays evident:
- The free press is lacking and not able to live up to the responsibility to create trustworthy information about our world any more; How they presented all this is ridiculous (all this is actually pretty much equivalent to the war on terror and all that surrounds it) and making it easy for such people as the creators of the film.
- We ourself need to review what we trust in, because we are hardly competent to distinguish facts, on which we rely the press on to do it for us.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle between the film and what is issued as official news, but this is already horrendous, because the media covers the whole range from news to myth-making.

To all the people who just openly and generally disagree:
What do you know? Where do you know it from?
All this is is a summary of evidential material, things that are reported similarly by traditional established media and a few years ago.
Alone this is more than just troubling, the media obviousely is in a crisis, but to take the step and act like the information we have gotten used to be selective and think we are up to make that selection is approaching this issue from the ultimatley wrong side because we are not.

About the very buhdist coloured speech in the begining and the general critisism of religion: From what people know my position here, they might assume I am of the same opinion, lets put forth that I am seeing this the first time. I think it's rather bland and extremely focused on winning a battle that it can't win.
When you counter an aesthetic or romantic outlook on the world such as people of strong faith have, do not include romantic or aesthetic arguments into your too much flaming speech for objectivism, or you will loose all you strive for, even if you win, which is unlikely; You don't beat religions on their own battlefield.

I stoped watching the movie when i heard him pronounce RothsChild.
""Where did you learn your trade, you stupid f*ck*ng c**t?"

##

Edit: I very much recomend the book "The looming tower" by Lawrence Wright which won itself the pulitzer prize; It at least gives you enough insight to counter much of the said film about AlQuaeda or Bin Laden where it's just appearing incompetent. The New York Times called it marvellous and I can only agree to that.

[Deimos]

i just thought the global banking conspiracy and bit about wars was kind of interesting

i dont know much about any of that since i havent researched it myself so it wouldnt take much to convince me, but i thought it was interesting.


the part on religion was the section with the most bullcrap i felt. i dont know if you can totally discredit everything discussed here though.

[Sandman53]

I found all the zodiac and christian comparisons cool, but once we started getting the conspiracy theory i got bored.

[Ronin]

Okay, about the "The central bank guise are out to get us" (yea I went back to watch it):

1# Since 1972 (I am not sure about the exact date it passed, was in the early times of the 2nd Nixon administration), all campaign funding has to be openly declared, it's against the law to fund more than one party in presidential elections and general party and election funding has a maximum, that is capped.
2# Running for president is an extremely risky, expensive and complicated issue. The majority of the presidents had not gained the ability to alter the constitution without the oppositions consent. Also mostly there is a proven history of elected presidents not really giving a crap about what they promised, why should they; Also the head of the bank cannot be held by the president, which leaves him to the will fare of an appointee, what kind of mass control is that? As soon as this appointee leaves, the capital stays with the institution (obviousely).
3# Productivity of nations are linked to the minimal personal hindrance of starting an enterprise, of a flexible market with few regulations, of taking care of the individuals property, privately and publicly and of the security of those enterprises.
4# Productivity is directly related to the GPD, energy and infrastructure level, personal wealth and welfare as well as healthcare, education and security against criminality. Also to the personal sense of this security and the personal sense of freedom I would like to add.
5# The power of the central banks are growing and falling in international comperativity resulting from economic growth or dimise. Sabotage would make no sense to them, as they would basically just ruin the economy they rely their power on and their chance of competition in a nowadays even further interconnected global market.
6# The real present market value of stocks, all financial currency value has to balance out with the real goods. There is no value created in printing money, contrary to what the videos creators might believe. The marked reacts nearly in real time to the lowering or rising of only interest rates and also ultra sensitive to any devaluations or revaluations. Those are there to keep a stable growing pace of economic development and to keep a healthy foreign trade balance, how the idea that any bank would love to see something else I am just wondering.
7# War's contrary to the films make-believe, do not fuel an economy in the long run (and also only very selectively in the short one). The number of companies that are smaller or medium sized, that had to close doors in America reached historical top levels within months after the beginning of the Afghanistan intervention, just to peak after the start of Iraqi Freedom. The result is obvious; since the introduction of the Euro, the value of the dollar has dropped by nearly 40%; This means that all your millionaire bankers lost 40% of their money's worth in comperative goods but in their own country they lost even more the initiative. ~6% in real goods they will loose each year, because the American economy doesn't grow any more. Hardly this is to the excitement of the American central bank, which has already lost (edit: Id like to add "a big portion" here to make sure I don't go over the border) their world leading position.